New Season, New Peanuts

[arch stanton]

How many active pitchers have even one 20 win season? I thought you'd be the last one on this board willing to pay the premium for past performance.

[Ohtaniland]

15 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

How many active pitchers have even one 20 win season? I thought you'd be the last one on this board willing to pay the premium for past performance.

I believe Scherzer and Kershaw have a couple. I'm talking about a pitcher that can burn 200+ innings, strikeout batters at a high rate without walking a bunch and dominate games.

[arch stanton]

Those are great. Where do we get one? Maybe we'll draft one with shiny new protected pick.

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, arch stanton said:

Those are great. Where do we get one? Maybe we'll draft one with shiny new protected pick.

That would be great.

[ettin]

I like both of these pickups.

[ukyah]

7 hours ago, ScottyA_MWAH said:

Both relievers post solid minor league numbers, and miss a lot of bats.  Both relievers have a BB/9 over 4, which means they couldn't hit sand if they fell off a camel. 

I doubt either remains on the 40-man roster through February. 

 

i'm sure you'll explain sufficiently, but how does "couldn't hit sand if they fell off a camel" apply to pitchers?

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, CALZONE said:

So you're saying we already have a consistently healthy and dominant <3 era / 200+ inning / 200+ K starting pitcher that's had at least a couple of 20 win seasons? 

there were 2 pitchers in baseball this year that fit this criteria sans the 20 wins.  There is 1 pitcher in all of baseball who, over the last 3 years, has averaged 200ip, 200k, has been completely healthy, has a sub 3 era and has more than one 20 win season under their belt.  His name is Max Scherzer.  He's owed 170 million over the next 5 years with salaries of $42.143 mil in each of his 34, 35 and 36 year old seasons.  

you might want to look some stuff up once in awhile.  I even mentioned in my first post that you you're overestimating the performance of a true 'ace' and you completely ignored it and decided to spout off some additional ridiculousness.  

[Stradling]

4 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I don't think we are going to sign a known quantity for the pen.  It's gonna be a series of these types of moves.  

Which sucks because the easiest way to improve this team would be to invest in the bullpen.  

[Ohtaniland]

7 hours ago, Dochalo said:

there were 2 pitchers in baseball this year that fit this criteria sans the 20 wins.  There is 1 pitcher in all of baseball who, over the last 3 years, has averaged 200ip, 200k, has been completely healthy, has a sub 3 era and has more than one 20 win season under their belt.  His name is Max Scherzer.  He's owed 170 million over the next 5 years with salaries of $42.143 mil in each of his 34, 35 and 36 year old seasons.  

you might want to look some stuff up once in awhile.  I even mentioned in my first post that you you're overestimating the performance of a true 'ace' and you completely ignored it and decided to spout off some additional ridiculousness.  

Ok I will lay off of the "old skool" pitching stats but what about a top 10 WAR starting pitcher? I don't believe we've had one since the early days of Weaver.

I'm referring to someone considered as one of the leagues best and draws national attention. A true shutdown starter. That's what I think this staff needs.

[totdprods]

12 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I don't think we are going to sign a known quantity for the pen.  It's gonna be a series of these types of moves.  

I don't know, I could see signing Chapman or Jansen as an interesting parallel to the Simmons trade. Make a bold move for a need a season ahead of schedule. 

Think of it this way - the pen is the only real aspect of this team that doesn't have a decent foundation during the Trout years. Offensively, we have Trout, Pujols, Cron, Calhoun. Defensively, Trout, Calhoun, Simmons, catchers. Rotation? Richards, Skaggs, Heaney, Shoe, Trop, Meyer, when all healthy, is a great starting point. Bullpen? It's really only Bedrosian, though it could also feature Meyer one day too.

Say this team winds up coalescing in 2018 or 2019 into something special, and we desperately need pen help at the deadline. Did you see what those arms cost at the deadline? Would you rather spend $60m now for Chapman, or trade Jones/Thaiss plus at the deadline? You can bring him in now for cash only, and you've quickly got a good core to build from on each aspect of the team. If this team isn't anything special in a couple years, you can probably flip Chapman for a good return still.

Ramirez, Valdez, Guerra, Ege and future arms like Middleton and Alcantara will be extremely cheap, which offsets an enormously expensive closer, and that may be why Eppler has been so aggressive in acquiring so many cheap, young pen arms.

I'm not crazy about the idea of expending so much money on such a limited, volatile, resource, but Chapman and Jansen are about as good as you can get and it may be worth the risk, and we are one of the few teams that can take that risk. Bullpens are the hardest part to build, so if you can eliminate a lot of that guesswork for 2018 and beyond right now, it may be worth it.

 

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, CALZONE said:

Ok I will lay off of the "old skool" pitching stats but what about a top 10 WAR starting pitcher? I don't believe we've had one since the early days of Weaver.

I'm referring to someone considered as one of the leagues best and draws national attention. A true shutdown starter. That's what I think this staff needs.

National attention, so the American League has one, maybe two of those guys.  Felix, Darvish, maybe, Price maybe.  

[Ohtaniland]

11 minutes ago, Stradling said:

National attention, so the American League has one, maybe two of those guys.  Felix, Darvish, maybe, Price maybe.  

I'm referring to both leagues. I realize that they're tough to find but having a frontline pitcher for the playoffs is important. The Mets / Giants game last night showed that importance. I'm not arguing about it but i don't think we have a true #1. 

[Stradling]

You're right. There are about ten in all of baseball.  The cost for them is enormous. . When healthy Richards is very good but not a consistent true ace.  I would say he's a number one, just not an ace.  

[arch stanton]

15 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

I'm referring to both leagues. I realize that they're tough to find but having a frontline pitcher for the playoffs is important. The Mets / Giants game last night showed that importance. I'm not arguing about it but i don't think we have a true #1. 

And for two years before that the Royals proved you can do it with bullpen

[mulwin444]

Thank God the Angels won in 2002 with their ACE #1 starter...wait, what was his name again?

[Ohtaniland]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

You're right. There are about ten in all of baseball.  The cost for them is enormous. . When healthy Richards is very good but not a consistent true ace.  I would say he's a number one, just not an ace.  

I think his bb/9 is way too high to be a true number one.

Without causing any stress here I've been referring to a true Ace not someone that's considered our best starter. There's a difference.

Richards has actually shown signs of greatness in spurts but falls back to average many times. 

You have well known 1st tier pitchers like Kershaw, Scherzer, Bumgardner, Sale, Hernandez and a few others. Weaver was once there. 

I wouldn't put Richards in that category yet.  

 

[Ohtaniland]

2 hours ago, mulwin444 said:

Thank God the Angels won in 2002 with their ACE #1 starter...wait, what was his name again?

There's no perfect formula for an Ace pitcher but when they are out there they are easy to recognize. Even Las Vegas usually sets the moneyline like -285 to -300 when they are on the mound. They are different and they separate themselves from the 2nd tier variety. Not all teams have them but it would be nice to have one.

[Angel Oracle]

Today's ridiculous star pitcher salaries are why it's more important than ever to develop them, and to have a lights out bullpen to minimize if not having a star pitcher (see 2002 Halos).

[Angel Oracle]

56 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

I think his bb/9 is way too high to be a true number one.

Without causing any stress here I've been referring to a true Ace not someone that's considered our best starter. There's a difference.

Richards has actually shown signs of greatness in spurts but falls back to average many times. 

You have well known 1st tier pitchers like Kershaw, Scherzer, Bumgardner, Sale, Hernandez and a few others. Weaver was once there. 

I wouldn't put Richards in that category yet.  

 

And has the dreaded inverted W in his delivery 

[Stradling]

Well since 1/4 of the teams have "an ace" I'm not too upset we have a good number one starter.  

[Troll Daddy]

4 hours ago, mulwin444 said:

Thank God the Angels won in 2002 with their ACE #1 starter...wait, what was his name again?

Washoutburn

[happybat4]

Washburn was one of the best pitchers that year

 

[DMVol]

10 minutes ago, happybat4 said:

Washburn was one of the best pitchers that year

He would have been your #1 but he was not an ace, as Strad has said...

[Ohtaniland]

On October 5, 2016 at 8:50 PM, CALZONE said:

What we really need is a front line true Ace starter to set the tone for the rest of the staff. We've had plenty of 3-4-5's but nothing truly dominant for a long time. 

 

Kershaw is amazing. 

[Docwaukee]

BTW, we actually had a chance to sign  one of the top 10 starters in all of baseball just this last off season.  A guy that has come very close to your stated requirements.  He's gone 49-27 with 675.1ip, a sub 3 era and over 600k during the last 3 years.  His cost was 6/130.  That would be Johnny Cueto.