Getting the Angels back to contention next year

[Stradling]

I don't know, how it works with pick compensation, but I don't believe it works like that.  I also don't think Walker will get a qualifying offer, but I could be wrong.  I would give up a 2nd round pick to have Desmond.  I also said a Fister type, and no I wouldn't go after the Fister type that has draft pick attached to him.  

[Inside Pitch]

4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Fair enough, and I don't disagree with you and would prefer that the Angels don't spend big. But the point of my post was NOT to recommend a certain path forward, but to give a sense of what would be required to have a good chance at being competitive next year.

I think you made a good case for while it's pretty clear things are bleak, they aren't as bleak as we as fans likely view it.   I too would prefer to focus on 2018.

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I don't know, how it works with pick compensation, but I don't believe it works like that.  I also don't think Walker will get a qualifying offer, but I could be wrong.  I would give up a 2nd round pick to have Desmond.  I also said a Fister type, and no I wouldn't go after the Fister type that has draft pick attached to him.  

The Mets seem pretty high on retaining him so I could see them offering a QO. Agreed on Fister-type. I could see the Astros offering him specifically one with the thin class and their need in the rotation. 

Desmond scares me.

[totdprods]

57 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I don't know, how it works with pick compensation, but I don't believe it works like that.  I also don't think Walker will get a qualifying offer, but I could be wrong.  I would give up a 2nd round pick to have Desmond.  I also said a Fister type, and no I wouldn't go after the Fister type that has draft pick attached to him.  

Dug around a bit, and it sounds like you do lose a pick per round relative to the number of QO'ed FAs you sign.

[kevinb]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

You suck at this thread. 

Thanks I guess....

[Second Base]

I'm against spending money on 2017 if it prohibits us from making a better run at 2019. If Walker and Cespedes are going to be good 3-4 years from now, then make that jump, but I'm not convinced. I think 3-4 years from now, Cespedes will be forced into a DH role (which we won't have available) and Walker will go the way of Aaron Hill.

I think I'd be chasing younger options that haven't hit their stride but come with upside. Jorge Soler, Joc Pederson, Yasiel Puig, Hunter Renfroe...

[totdprods]

22 minutes ago, ScottyA_MWAH said:

I'm against spending money on 2017 if it prohibits us from making a better run at 2019. If Walker and Cespedes are going to be good 3-4 years from now, then make that jump, but I'm not convinced. I think 3-4 years from now, Cespedes will be forced into a DH role (which we won't have available) and Walker will go the way of Aaron Hill.

I think I'd be chasing younger options that haven't hit their stride but come with upside. Jorge Soler, Joc Pederson, Yasiel Puig, Hunter Renfroe...

So what moves would you make if you were the GM, and Arte came to you and specifically requested you do what it takes to compete next season? Whether it meant spending significant money or trading prospects. So long as you built the team into a contender at least on paper. Think of it as a chance to do right where Reagins went wrong when under similar circumstances when dealt Napoli for Wells. 

Seems like a lot of people missed the point of this thread. It wasn't asking "Should we spend next year and try to compete still?" 

I'm specifically interested in your take Scotty because I really enjoy your opinions on the farm. And I think you'll offer up something different and a little more outside the box than "Oh, easy, sign the top five free agents".

Who would you trade for Renfroe, Soler, etc? How would you shore up the rotation?

[Stradling]

45 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Thanks I guess....

Well it's a thread that says how would you put them in contention next year.  You come in and basically do the exact opposite.  Don't like the premise, stay out of the thread.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

27 minutes ago, ScottyA_MWAH said:

I'm against spending money on 2017 if it prohibits us from making a better run at 2019. If Walker and Cespedes are going to be good 3-4 years from now, then make that jump, but I'm not convinced. I think 3-4 years from now, Cespedes will be forced into a DH role (which we won't have available) and Walker will go the way of Aaron Hill.

I think I'd be chasing younger options that haven't hit their stride but come with upside. Jorge Soler, Joc Pederson, Yasiel Puig, Hunter Renfroe...

Thing is, we dont have anything to trade for young guys, and FAs will be older

 

Im with you, just dont see it in our cards

[eligrba]

Have the Angels play in the adult baseball league instead of the major league.

[kevinb]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Well it's a thread that says how would you put them in contention next year.  You come in and basically do the exact opposite.  Don't like the premise, stay out of the thread.  

I was saying what I thought of his idea. And same goes for you don't like what I said ignore it. Last I heard this site was still open to free speech and communication let me know if I'm wrong. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

I was saying what I thought of his idea. And same goes for you don't like what I said ignore it. Last I heard this site was still open to free speech and communication let me know if I'm wrong. 

There are plenty of other threads to share those opinions.  

[kevinb]

Just now, Stradling said:

There are plenty of other threads to share those opinions.  

I'd rather share it where the topic was brought up but thanks for pointing me in the right direction. 

[Angelsjunky]

Stradling seems to really like the "Fister type." Read into that what you will.

[disarcina]

I just don't see us being very competitive next year........

 

 

[Docwaukee]

Good stuff AJ.  

I see where you are going.  But adding 80 mil takes payroll to $220 and the pen and rotation still look pretty mediocre to me.  You could switch some names in and out, but I don't see any combo of what we have paired with any of the free agents equaling a sure playoff bet.  Because if I am spending 80mil, I better have about a 90% of making the playoffs.  

To me, the only way you can create a contender for 2017 is to also trade from your already thin farm system and maybe even from your major league club.  

You'd have to create a package around Jones and Thaiss for a starter.  Is that enough to pry Odorizzi from Tampa?  Maybe.  Probably not.  

Then I would consider moving Simmons for another starter.  Maybe the Mets would have interest for Matz (very unlikely you'd get Thor or Degrom).  Or maybe to Seattle for Walker and a couple other pieces (like Diaz).  That would also mean keeping Petit at SS for an entire year.  Or platooning him with Pennington.  Or the Nats for Turner and Ross?  Doubtful.  

Regardless of the name, Simmons could probably get you a nice young pitcher from someone.  

But that would give you two youngish rotation arms to go along with Richards and Shoe.  Then you'd have Skaggs, Meyer, Betances and Nolasco as depth.  

You would definitely sign a closer like Jansen or Melancon.  And of course you'd still want to sign Cespedes.  But Reddick, Desmond, Trumbo or Saunders would suffice.   I also think Prado might be cheaper than Walker.  I would also consider signing one more reliever like Tommy Hunter.

So

Richards, Odorizzi, Shoe, Walker, Skaggs/Meyer with depth of Nolasco, Smith, Betaces, Oberholtzer

Jansen, Diaz, Bedrosian (maybe apparently), Street (maybe.  I think he reitres if he loses the closer role), Hunter, Guerra, Ramirez, Alvarez with depth of Olberholtzer, Morin, Middleton, Valdez and a few others

Escobar 3b, Trout CF, Calhoun RF, Pujols DH, Cespedes LF, Cron 1b, Prado 2b, Bandy C, Petit SS.

If you don't trade from the farm and decide to go with strad's 'fister type' then the rotation is weaker and probably only mediocre.  The upside of adding Walker for Simmons is you actually shed a little payroll.  Cespedes costs you 25mil, Jansen 10mi, Prado 12mil, Hunter 5mil.  So you add about 50 minus Simmons 8 and you are around $180-185.  You maintain tradeable assets by getting young talent for Simmons.    

So to me, the key is trading Simmons.  Yes it seems like a bit of a lateral move, but if who you get upgrades you more than your downgrade at SS, then you are ahead of the game.  Especially if you get a club controlled player who still has significant trade value.  

 

 

[Docwaukee]

btw, I probably wouldn't do any of the above.  If I'm Arte, I'm inclined to take my lumps for 2017 and see where things fall for 2018.  

[arch stanton]

I get the feeling Arte is banking on something happening in the CBA and he's not inclined to spend until it's a done deal.

[fan_since79]

Sign Josh Reddick and bring back Joe Blanton and Bartolo Colon.

Simple as that.

 

No, seriously...you guys all have great ideas. I haven't had my coffee yet so had to post something silly.

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Sign Josh Reddick and bring back Joe Blanton and Bartolo Colon.

Simple as that.

 

No, seriously...you guys all have great ideas. I haven't had my coffee yet so had to post something silly.

I think that makes just as much sense as adding $80m+ annually to the payroll.

[fan_since79]

14 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I think that makes just as much sense as adding $80m+ annually to the payroll.

Barolo has made 25 starts this year and averaged almost six innings per. His ERA+ is practically the same as during his 2005 Cy Young season. Still a pitcher with excellent control and the ability to give you some innings. He does give up a lot of hits, but he's done that pretty much throughout his career.

 

 

 

[totdprods]

@Dochalo you and I had a pretty similar approach, except I dealt Calhoun instead of Simmons. I think Simmons would be more difficult to replace in the long-term; his defense is just too special, shortstop is such a tough position to fill, and I think there's still more offensive development to come. While not ideal, I think this year's FA OF class is deep enough that we could buy two corner OFs, and with what we may lose in Calhoun's production, we'd be able to make up by improving the other OF spot - with the added bonus of bring another good, young SP to the fold. I have a lingering fear we also may have seen the best of Calhoun, not that he's in decline per se, but more so that he's going to stick in this .700-.750 OPS range with back and forth place discipline issues - I would try to cash in on him now while he's young and cheap enough that a team would pay a high price for him, and I think there's several teams that would offer up a SP that's either in the bigs now and succeeding, or a prospect right on the cusp. I picked Trevor Bauer.

I could see Dipoto considering a trade centered around Simmons and Walker. With the price of 'elite' relievers these days, I think Diaz is off limits. Injury concerns spook me away from Matz (and most of the Mets arms actually) at this point. Simmons for Trea Turner and a SP would be something I'd consider. 

I actually would like to see Eppler somehow pull in a legit young starter this offseason. I'm not sure how he will, but I think it'd be a great move long-term and also something that could come into play if they have some aspiration of competing in 2017.