ESPN: Trout 40th greatest player ever

[zenmaster]

I don't agree with all of their rankings but it's crazy to think we might have the 40th greatest player of all time and he's ONLY 24!

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/mlbrank100_40-31/all-mlbrank-nos-40-31

[Chuck]

11 minutes ago, zenmaster said:

I don't agree with all of their rankings but it's crazy to think we might have the 40th greatest player of all time and he's ONLY 24!

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/mlbrank100_40-31/all-mlbrank-nos-40-31

If he stays healthy, I'm guessing he'll be a top 10 player when he turns 30. Now THAT is crazy! 

[Second Base]

I think he'll one of the five greatest ever when all is said and done.

[Taylor]

40 seems way too low.

[moccasin]

It's pretty hard to rank Trout when he's only played 4.5 seasons, so it was kind of hard to react.

I was more outraged by Albert Pujols being only 30th on the list, while A-Rod was at 21.

I know he has declined, but this guy was the best player in the sport for quite a while.

[eaterfan]

16 minutes ago, moccasin said:

It's pretty hard to rank Trout when he's only played 4.5 seasons, so it was kind of hard to react.

I was more outraged by Albert Pujols being only 30th on the list, while A-Rod was at 21.

I know he has declined, but this guy was the best player in the sport for quite a while.

You mean A-Rod? I can see if people are upset about the PED stuff and think that's why he should be lower, but A-Rod was a better player than Pujols. If there were no PED issues we'd be talking about A-Rod as a top 5 all time player.

Looking at Trout's numbers it's amazing how close they are to Miggy's rate numbers and Trout plays CF instead of a mediocre 1B! Also he's only like 2 HRs shy of Pete Rose. Maybe I'm crazy but I don't think Rose deserves to be in the top 60 based on his play (nothing about his off the field stuff).

[moccasin]

6 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

You mean A-Rod? I can see if people are upset about the PED stuff and think that's why he should be lower, but A-Rod was a much better player than Pujols. If there were no PED issues we'd be talking about A-Rod as a top 5 all time player.

Looking at Trout's numbers it's amazing how close they are to Miggy's rate numbers and Trout plays CF instead of a mediocre 1B! Also he's only like 2 HRs shy of Pete Rose. Maybe I'm crazy but I don't think Rose deserves to be in the top 60 based on his play (nothing about his off the field stuff).

Well, Pujols has a better career AVG, OBP, and SLG so you can't say A-Rod was a MUCH better player.

That is without the steroids, which you cannot pretend didn't happen, because he's been a user at least 60% of his career. A-Rod's stats and achievements have to be de-graded about 10-20%, and it wouldn't even be close.

 

[Angels#1Fan]

It's waaaaay to early to be ranking Trout.

[eaterfan]

6 minutes ago, moccasin said:

Well, Pujols has a better career AVG, OBP, and SLG so you can't say A-Rod was a MUCH better player.

That is without the steroids, which you cannot pretend didn't happen, because he's been a user at least 60% of his career. A-Rod's stats and achievements have to be de-graded about 10-20%, and it wouldn't even be close.

 

I previously posted an edit that agreed that "much" was a bit strong. And I said if you want to count steroid use against him that's fine, I can't argue with that.

But you're completely ignoring positional value, defense, and baserunning in your comparison. Also, when looking at rate stats it's important to consider that A-Rod's rate stats have suffered through a lot of post peak years while Pujols still has many more to come. If he puts up 5 more years like the previous 2-3 or even worse then his rate stats will drop. 

[Chuck]

Pujols > A'Hole

[moccasin]

34 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

I previously posted an edit that agreed that "much" was a bit strong. And I said if you want to count steroid use against him that's fine, I can't argue with that.

But you're completely ignoring positional value, defense, and baserunning in your comparison. Also, when looking at rate stats it's important to consider that A-Rod's rate stats have suffered through a lot of post peak years while Pujols still has many more to come. If he puts up 5 more years like the previous 2-3 or even worse then his rate stats will drop. 

Well, it seems like we aren't that far apart then. Albert is the superior hitter in both peak (OPS+ of 192 to 176) and career(158 to 141), although the lead in the latter will get smaller, just as you mentioned. Although I would argue that Albert was a better defender at his position,  A-Rod does have more positional value and was a faster runner.

So they're pretty close, even if you ignore A-Rod's confirmed steroid use.

 

Which still means that A-Rod does not deserve to be ranked 10 spots above Pujols.

 

[fan_since79]

Bill James' Hall of Fame Monitor has him 78% of the way there.

His 7-year peak WAR is almost identical to the average HOF center fielder, and he's only in his fifth full year.

 

 

[Ohtaniland]

Let's face it, Trout is a great player but we will never know his true greatness until he plays on the big stage. Sure the MVP awards are nice but I'm sure that Trout would like more opportunities to win a championship. He's now getting married and could start a family. Who knows what his priorities will be in the next 3-5 years. 

[Chuck]

7 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Let's face it, Trout is a great player but we will never know his true greatness until he plays on the big stage. Sure the MVP awards are nice but I'm sure that Trout would like more opportunities to win a championship. He's now getting married and could start a family. Who knows what his priorities will be in the next 3-5 years. 

I'm not sure I agree with this. There has been plenty of Hall of Famers who never got to the big stage or sucked on the big stage. A handful of games in the postseason does not overrule thousands of other games a player dominated at the big league level. 

[mrwicked]

if only he got a chance to play in the playoffs...

[Ohtaniland]

45 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I'm not sure I agree with this. There has been plenty of Hall of Famers who never got to the big stage or sucked on the big stage. A handful of games in the postseason does not overrule thousands of other games a player dominated at the big league level. 

Well are we ever going to see a monster season from Trout like Miggy in 2012 and 2013 or maybe like Pujols in 03, 04, 06, or 09? Will we ever see a Triple Crown season from Trout. How about a 200 hit season? 

[mulwin444]

35 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Well are we ever going to see a monster season from Trout like Miggy in 2012 and 2013 or maybe like Pujols in 03, 04, 06, or 09? Will we ever see a Triple Crown season from Trout. How about a 200 hit season? 

Miggy's triple crown season equaled a 164 OPS+ while Mike put up a 168 OPS+ that same year including beating him in WAR 10.8 to 7.2...but I guess Miggy ticked off the right counting stats so his qualified as a "monster" year.

At age 24, Mike has already clobbered Miggy early years as well.

As for Pujols, I'm sure Mike has a good shot at putting up those numbers when he's 27-28.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Pujols is #31.

[Angelsjunky]

Trout has been so good his first five years that he could play his next five to get to the necessary ten as an average+ 2-3 WAR player and still make the Hall.

I haven't investigated the article yet, but #40 seems about right - even generous. He could be top 20 by the time he's 30 and may have a chance of the top 10, although it becomes a tall order.

[Ohtaniland]

33 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Trout has been so good his first five years that he could play his next five to get to the necessary ten as an average+ 2-3 WAR player and still make the Hall.

I haven't investigated the article yet, but #40 seems about right - even generous. He could be top 20 by the time he's 30 and may have a chance of the top 10, although it becomes a tall order.

If he was a Yankee or played for the Red Sox he'd already be in the top 20. 

[Angels#1Fan]

4 hours ago, CALZONE said:

Let's face it, Trout is a great player but we will never know his true greatness until he plays on the big stage. Sure the MVP awards are nice but I'm sure that Trout would like more opportunities to win a championship. He's now getting married and could start a family. Who knows what his priorities will be in the next 3-5 years. 

Yeah, we'll never know if Ted Williams was any good due to his poor record on the "big stage". lol

Lets face it, you're waaaaay off base as usual.

[Angels#1Fan]

4 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

I'm not sure I agree with this. There has been plenty of Hall of Famers who never got to the big stage or sucked on the big stage. A handful of games in the postseason does not overrule thousands of other games a player dominated at the big league level. 

I definitely don't agree with CALZONE's nonsense!

[Angelsjunky]

After striking it out three times to Lance Macullers, Trout is now 42nd on the list.

[Stradling]

This is a @CALZONE special type of thread.  His entire narrative is based on players are greedy so who knows what their priorities are or something something big stage.  

[Lou]

On 7/21/2016 at 4:52 PM, eaterfan said:

Also, when looking at rate stats it's important to consider that A-Rod's rate stats have suffered through a lot of post peak years while Pujols still has many more to come. 

Huh?