Keith Law: "by far the worst (farm) system I've ever seen"

[NrM]

It's an awful farm system. 

 

Stupid lame annoying high floor draft for position players. 

 

But here is something interesting to consider.  Here are our top 20 from 2013 when we were also ranked as the worst system

Cowart

Maronde

Grichuck

Cron

Lindsey

Alvarez

Calhoun

Yarbrough

Jiminez

Schugel

Austin Wood

Sappington

Clevinger

Witherspoon

Tillman

Stamets

Walsh

Sherman Johnson

Hinkle

 

with the just missed list including Bedrosian, Geltz, and a couple other guys with outside shots at being major leaguers. 

 

Now granted, I would kill to have that farm system right now.  But sometimes prospects actually end up better that expected. 

 

We just need all of ours to exceed expectations and then we'd have a system that was in the lower third instead of dead last.

 

I see one MLB player(Calhoun), and two very questionable players in Grichuk and Cron.

[NrM]

Poozy you could have drafted better than Dipoto.

 

Not without scouts and money.

There's a reason the Angels drafted ward in the first round, and it wasn't because he was a first round talent. 

Edited February 10, 2016 by Poozy

[Inside Pitch]

He doesn't...He's kept this team afloat by making some great trades.

 

 

Yes, with people brought in by others...    But keep that head planted in the sand..  and tell yourself that the Trumbo trade wasn't all on Kevin Towers while you're at it.

[Stradling]

I see one MLB player(Calhoun), and two very questionable players in Grichuk and Cron.

I think both your questionable guys are legit major leaguers. I also think Cowart is a major leaguer.

[Stradling]

Not without scouts and money.

Yes you could have.

[Inside Pitch]

I see one MLB player(Calhoun), and two very questionable players in Grichuk and Cron.

 

Please list all the position players currently in the system due to Dipoto's drafts that project to be better players than, Chron, Grichuk, or Calhoun.    Tell us how Gott is better than Storen again while you're at it.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Inside Pitch

[Angel Oracle]

For Strad:  maybe, but most teams that do draft solidly have solid scouting, and development coaching, in place.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Angel Oracle

[Inside Pitch]

Not without scouts and money.

There's a reason the Angels drafted ward in the first round, and it wasn't because he was a first round talent. 

 

JD fired a shit ton of scouts and brought in his guys -- he spent a lot of money..  See Baldoquin.   Some of you are acting like the Angels didn't spend their allotted draft signing budgets -- they did.  They just spent the money on the wrong guys.   

Edited February 10, 2016 by Inside Pitch

[ELEVEN]

How the hell are the Marlins so low? I thought they spent the last 3-4 years stockpiling minor league talent while dumping salary.

[ksangel]

Farm system ratings are smoke and mirrors and higher rankings are typically a sign the major league team has stunk for a number of years and so high draft choices have been gotten.

 

Except for the Dodgers who spend big on the international market.

 

Angels have two good minor prospects (Ward and Jones) and numerous young players in the majors (Trout [yes he's young] Simmons, Heaney, Skaggs, Calhoun...etc.).  If Perez and Cowart pan out it will help.

 

With Weaver and Wilson coming off next year and Hamilton the next the Angels should be able to sign at least three quality free agents to restock the major league team while waiting for the minors to recover from signing Wilson, Pujols and Hamilton - those three signings represent the state of minor league system.

 

It can be built up quickly and Arte stepped in the right direction not signing a FA left fielder this year.

[eaterfan]

For me the comment about the Simmons trade is indicative of how bad the farm system was before the trade. Chris Ellis isn't good enough to rank in the top 100, he's ranked as the 10 best pitching prospect in the Braves system, but our system is so awful that a guy like Chrs Ellis, essentially the 2016 version or Barret Browning, Tobin Mason, or Steven Shell was our second best prospect. If you're an Angels prospect hound those names likely ring a bell. If they don't -- that's sort of my point.

It's doubtful Newcomb was enough to lift the Angels system any higher than 29th out of 30. Of all the issues the Angels have, the farm system is going to take the most amount of time and require the greatest amount of luck to pan out. We are in a situation where every single player in the system with a hint of tools or ability has to pan out to overcome the normal attrition rates. Jones, Abbott, Smith, etc etc -- they need to develop or it's nuclear winter.

The farm system sucks so please don't take this as a defense of the farm system. But I'm not sure it's fair to indict Dipoto based on the state of the system.

Dipoto took a system that was pretty low on pitching talent just 3 years ago faced with an aging Weaver and Wilson and got Heaney, Skaggs, Santiago, and Tropeano. They are all pretty young and relatively inexpensive. If Dipoto had traded assets to acquire minor leaguers instead of MLB level young talent our system would be ranked much higher but our MLB team would look worse.

The point of these rankings is at least partially to show what the next 5-6 years of an MLB team could look like. I think all the guys mentioned above could be in that plan. I know we don't have control of them for that long but each has at least proven to be MLB capable while half the prospects in these lists won't.

We are going to need several good drafts to build any semblance of a good system by the time Trout hits FA though.

[nate]

It's crazy people watch Aybar last year and didn't see the need to upgrade short stop. Just because he's under contract another year doesn't mean it wasn't a position of need. Simmons is going to be great to watch the next five years.

 

Just as crazy as the people who watched Richards last year and think that he could be an Ace.

 

Aybar had a down year, he also was asked to hit in situations that are not to his strength.  His prior year he was very good.

[Stradling]

For Strad: maybe, but most teams that do draft solidly have solid scouting, and development coaching, in place.

Ok I get that, so do we blame Scott Servais? Didn't Jerry bring him in from Texas to run the minors? If I am remembering right then if Jerry hired Servais then do we blame Servais or the guy who hired him?

[NrM]

JD fired a shit ton of scouts and brought in his guys -- and he spent a lot of money..  See Baldoquin.   Some of you are acting like the Angels didn't spend their allotted draft signing budgets -- they did.  They just spent the money on the wrong guys.   

 

How was Dipoto able to find another GM job so quickly if he is responsible for the terrible condition the Angels are currently in.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Poozy

[Stradling]

Just as crazy as the people who watched Richards last year and think that he could be an Ace.

Aybar had a down year, he also was asked to hit in situations that are not to his strength. His prior year he was very good.

You absolutely could be right mate, but when dealing with Aybar it could also very well signal the beginning of the end, or at least his decline. He seemed to be worse defensively as well, which usually defense doesn't slump.

[Stradling]

How was Dipoto able to find another GM job so quickly if he is responsible for the terrible condition the Angels are currently in.

Ok Poozy, let's take that logic and apply it to Scioscia. There's a lot of guys on here that hate the guy. So if he was fired is there any doubt he would get another manager job? Of course not, despite the fact that he isn't a perfect manager.

[NrM]

Ok Poozy, let's take that logic and apply it to Scioscia. There's a lot of guys on here that hate the guy. So if he was fired is there any doubt he would get another manager job? Of course not, despite the fact that he isn't a perfect manager.

 

Eh. Erm..****...

I think you got me...****er.. you know I hate scioscia...

 

Although, GM positions are different animals. If you blow your one shot, it's very difficult to find another.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Poozy

[Inside Pitch]

How the hell are the Marlins so low? I thought they spent the last 3-4 years stockpiling minor league talent while dumping salary.

 

They were mostly Salary dumps moreso than attempts to infuse talent.   They lumped guys together for quick sale..  Guys like Reyes, Buerhle and Bonafacio were all traded as a package -- pretty sure that's how they obtained Mathis.  They also had some of the guys they traded for blow their arms out  -- Henderson Alvares and Jacob Turner come to mind.   Neither guy is still with the Marlins.

[Inside Pitch]

The farm system sucks so please don't take this as a defense of the farm system. But I'm not sure it's fair to indict Dipoto based on the state of the system.

Dipoto took a system that was pretty low on pitching talent just 3 years ago faced with an aging Weaver and Wilson and got Heaney, Skaggs, Santiago, and Tropeano. They are all pretty young and relatively inexpensive. If Dipoto had traded assets to acquire minor leaguers instead of MLB level young talent our system would be ranked much higher but our MLB team would look worse.

The point of these rankings is at least partially to show what the next 5-6 years of an MLB team could look like. I think all the guys mentioned above could be in that plan. I know we don't have control of them for that long but each has at least proven to be MLB capable while half the prospects in these lists won't.

We are going to need several good drafts to build any semblance of a good system by the time Trout hits FA though.

 

I don't think the farm system is enough to say he was a bad GM -- which is why I don't make that comment, I've actually said he had the makings of a good GM.   But it's hardly an endorsement of his ability at the same time -- IMO, it's what he did worst in his time in Anaheim and it's impact could last much longer than any of his good moves..   The bad farm system he inherited had a lot more talent than it was given credit for.  The one he leaves behind is significantly weaker.  I don't know that there is any real room to argue the opposite and Im an undeniable fan of certain guys in the farm system.

 

It's great he added some arms -- but the position player end of things is a wasteland.   You're preaching to the choir when it comes to rankings and what they really mean -- I've long derided them, but the issue here isn't so much that the Angels rank dead last, it's more a case of my agreeing wholeheartedly that it may be the worst farm system in a long time.   It's definitely the worst farm system we have had since 99, and possibly since the White Herzog era.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Inside Pitch

[Sully151]

Hey! We are THE BEST!!!!!

At being the worst.

[Inside Pitch]

How was Dipoto able to find another GM job so quickly if he is responsible for the terrible condition the Angels are currently in.

 

You got that list of Dipoto draftees that project better than Cron, Grichuk, and Calhoun yet?     

WTF does his getting hired by someone have to do with anything that's being argued here?    Have you missed all the posts where I claim he wasn't a bad GM -- I do in fact call him a good GM in most cases.  But this farm system is as much on him as it is on Arte and anyone that wants to blame one and absolve the other is a fanboy in my book,

 

I've said it before..  I don't hate Jerry, but I hate the free pass he gets.   

Edited February 10, 2016 by Inside Pitch

[ELEVEN]

How was Dipoto able to find another GM job so quickly if he is responsible for the terrible condition the Angels are currently in.

Cez, you want to take this one?...

[ELEVEN]

They were mostly Salary dumps moreso than attempts to infuse talent. They lumped guys together for quick sale.. Guys like Reyes, Buerhle and Bonafacio were all traded as a package -- pretty sure that's how they obtained Mathis. They also had some of the guys they traded for blow their arms out -- Henderson Alvares and Jacob Turner come to mind. Neither guy is still with the Marlins.

Thanks. Wow, they sure made it seem like they were building something for the future over there.

Who was the elite pitching prospect they had that slept in a van at Walmart during ST last spring?

[Oz27]

You got that list of Dipoto draftees that project better than Cron, Grichuk, and Calhoun yet?

WTF does his getting hired by someone have to do with anything that's being argued here? Have you missed all the posts where I claim he wasn't a bad GM -- I do in fact call him a good GM in most cases. But this farm system is as much on him as it is on Arte and anyone that wants to blame one and absolve the other is a fanboy in my book,

I've said it before.. I don't hate Jerry, but I hate the free pass he gets.

I like much of what you post but your overcompensatory Dipoto criticism, in reply to plenty of over-the-top Dipoto loving, is a bit much. It's getting obsessive and hyperbolic.

[Inside Pitch]

I like much of what you post but your overcompensatory Dipoto criticism, in reply to plenty of over-the-top Dipoto loving, is a bit much. It's getting obsessive and hyperbolic.

 

That's intentionally hyperbolic and I don't disagree.   But believe me when I say I don't dislike Jerry, just the Beliebers.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Inside Pitch