Pujols undervalued

[Ohtaniland]

I think Pujols is going come back solid in April and May but then require a hip replacement that he will play through and hit .185 to finish out the season.

[Stradling]

What do I win?

[JarsOfClay]

It's important to look at what you expect the player to do in the future, not what he's done in the past. You shouldn't ever be giving out long term contracts on the basis of what happened last year.

 

This is why guys like Heyward were actually a good value. It quite interesting really because projections love Heyward going forward because he hasn't hit his prime yet. Meanwhile fans and front offices seemed to think he might be overrated, because his numbers are not quite as elite as a free agent who was exiting his prime.

 

This is the attitude that rewards Albert Pujols with a 10 year contract at top dollar even though he didn't have a single year of elite performance left in him. 

 

I read something somewhere about how Joe Maddon was the main guy using the shift against lefties and then in an unusual circumstance, he began using it against Pujols in interleague play and it was effective.  The NL picked up on it and started shifting on him a lot more often  in 2011, his worst year.  Then ofcourse Arte Morono signs a guy who the league has pretty much figured out cant hit the ball to RF if his life depended on it  and the angels ended up getting a raw deal.

[YouthofToday]

The Pujols deal had nothing to do with the TV contract.

[YouthofToday]

As Stradling mentioned this acquisition was not purely an on the field issue. The Dodgers were going through a bad spell with their previous owner and his divorce, etc. and Arte and the organization saw an opportunity to seize some market share and also position the franchise for the big TV deal that followed. From a purely baseball standpoint the contract with Pujols was probably too much and too long. In the bigger picture the Angels accomplished some other goals which makes the Pujols contract very successful in my opinion. I still enjoy watching one of the best players in the last twenty years perform for the Angels and am very appreciative of Pujol's strong work ethic and the other values that he brings to the team.

If that was the logic then the Halos are run by morons.

[Ohtaniland]

What do I win?

Trust me when I say this.......if Arte could tear up Albert's contract up right now and get out of it he would. Arte can't possibly be satisfied with what he got in return from Albert.

[Angelsjunky]

Pujols is probably the most disappointing Angels free agent signing in my 35 years of following the team. I'm not saying he's the worst, but he's probably the most disappointing. An inner circle Hall of Famer falls on his ass and becomes a latter day Mo Vaughn. ****ing awesome.

[Angelsjunky]

If that was the logic then the Halos are run by morons.

 

Haven't you been paying attention the last 7 years?

[Ohtaniland]

The point is, there is upside on the Heyward deal. There was no upside paying Pujols $250 million in his mid 30's.

Heyward didn't want to play here. He knows this organization is going to take years to fix. The Cubs are on the rise.

[Erstad Grit]

Pujols is probably the most disappointing Angels free agent signing in my 35 years of following the team. I'm not saying he's the worst, but he's probably the most disappointing. An inner circle Hall of Famer falls on his ass and becomes a latter day Mo Vaughn. ****ing awesome.

I think Pujols is the exact opposite of Vaughn. Mo was an a-hole who put up some pretty good numbers. Pujols seems well liked but simply isn't producing like we hoped. 

[yk9001]

Well to be fair he was signed in his early 30's and there is still the belief that his signing was at least part of the reason the Angels got the big tv contract. If he is part of the tv contract then his signing isn't the problem. Arte having his budget, despite the big tv deal, is the problem.

 

Stop with this.  Please.

 

Besides the two thousand die hards that showed up to the Angels Stadium press conference, and some random jerseys you see in the stadium, there is ZERO evidence of Pujols ever making a mark in Southern California, and there was no reason to believe he was ever going to.

 

EVERY team gets a big fat TV deal.  The Angels' is bigger than most due to the size of the region.  Pujols was never going to move the needle, and he never has.

[yk9001]

I think Pujols is the exact opposite of Vaughn. Mo was an a-hole who put up some pretty good numbers. Pujols seems well liked but simply isn't producing like we hoped. 

 

Mo fell into the dugout and wrecked his ankle his very first game - hell, in the first fricking inning! - as an Angel.  It took Pujols a month and a half to hit his first home run as an Angel.  Both never even approached the hype given to them.

 

I don't buy much of Mo's numbers as an Angel.  They weren't outstanding in the hitter friendly times that he played here.  The team sucked when he was here, and took off after he left.  He was a miserable SOB as a teammate. 

 

Both Pujols and Vaughn have combined for one All-Star appearances as an Angel.  ONE!! 

[Stradling]

Stop with this. Please.

Besides the two thousand die hards that showed up to the Angels Stadium press conference, and some random jerseys you see in the stadium, there is ZERO evidence of Pujols ever making a mark in Southern California, and there was no reason to believe he was ever going to.

EVERY team gets a big fat TV deal. The Angels' is bigger than most due to the size of the region. Pujols was never going to move the needle, and he never has.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dodgers-send-shock-waves-through-local-tv-landscape/

I'll put that there yk, it's a bit old but it still proves the point that not every team gets the kind of tv deal the Angels got, not even close. Last year the media darlings the Cardinals who have a HUGE following got a 15 year $1 billion tv contract. We know tv contracts are based on viewership and the Angels have one of the lowest viewership ratings in the game.

[Angelsjunky]

Yeah, Mo was pretty mediocre. His .276/.362/.503 as an Angels looks good now, but in 1999-2000 was good for a solid but unspectacular 117 OPS+. Pujols has actually been better, his .266/.326/.478 good for a 126 OPS+. It is just that it is such a far-cry from his 170 OPS+ as a Cardinal, whereas Mo's 117 was solidly below his 140 OPS+ as a Red Sock, but not as drastically so.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Heyward didn't want to play here. He knows this organization is going to take years to fix. The Cubs are on the rise.

 

Maybe, but I don't think every single free agent decided that they didn't want to play baseball in SoCal because the Angels might be on the down swing. Also a guy like Heyward could've gone a long way towards preventing this team from sinking into this hole they appear headed into.

[Hollyw00d]

Pujols and undervalued dont belong in the same paragraph

[Stradling]

Maybe, but I don't think every single free agent decided that they didn't want to play baseball in SoCal because the Angels might be on the down swing. Also a guy like Heyward could've gone a long way towards preventing this team from sinking into this hole they appear headed into.

Shh, you are ruining his narrative that Pujols and spending money has ruined the Angels.

[AngelsLakersFan]

I read something somewhere about how Joe Maddon was the main guy using the shift against lefties and then in an unusual circumstance, he began using it against Pujols in interleague play and it was effective.  The NL picked up on it and started shifting on him a lot more often  in 2011, his worst year.  Then ofcourse Arte Morono signs a guy who the league has pretty much figured out cant hit the ball to RF if his life depended on it  and the angels ended up getting a raw deal.

 

I didn't watch all that much of Albert in his last couple of years in StL, but when he was going good he was hitting the ball all over the field. His extreme pull tendencies seemed to appear when he got to Anaheim. He very well may have started with it in 2011 with the Cards, while pressing in his walk year. 

 

He strikes me as a real head case actually. He put up sick numbers for years, then when the Cards balked at resigning him he reacted by forgetting how to hit. He signs a big deal with the Angels and spends the first month+ try to hit a homerun that he just can't quite find. Once he has it he rips the cover off the ball the rest of the season. Somewhere along that line he seems to realize that he can't physically hit the ball out to right field anymore - not with those legs, the extra weight and the high wall. The result is some 400 foot bombs hooked foul down the line, and a shit ton of ground balls to third base. This is where the shift comes in and really starts to hurt him.

[Hollyw00d]

That's a narrative? Seems pretty damn accurate

[itsKnoppUitsme]

Pujols is probably the most disappointing Angels free agent signing in my 35 years of following the team. I'm not saying he's the worst, but he's probably the most disappointing. An inner circle Hall of Famer falls on his ass and becomes a latter day Mo Vaughn. ****ing awesome.

Gary Gaetti

[Inside Pitch]

I didn't watch all that much of Albert in his last couple of years in StL, but when he was going good he was hitting the ball all over the field. His extreme pull tendencies seemed to appear when he got to Anaheim. He very well may have started with it in 2011 with the Cards, while pressing in his walk year. 

 

He strikes me as a real head case actually. He put up sick numbers for years, then when the Cards balked at resigning him he reacted by forgetting how to hit. He signs a big deal with the Angels and spends the first month+ try to hit a homerun that he just can't quite find. Once he has it he rips the cover off the ball the rest of the season. Somewhere along that line he seems to realize that he can't physically hit the ball out to right field anymore - not with those legs, the extra weight and the high wall. The result is some 400 foot bombs hooked foul down the line, and a shit ton of ground balls to third base. This is where the shift comes in and really starts to hurt him.

 

Here you go --  his batted ball profiles show a gradual shift away from the opposite field.   It's not as drastic as most of us would likely expect to see given his time in Ahaheim.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1177&position=1B#battedball

[Ohtaniland]

Maybe, but I don't think every single free agent decided that they didn't want to play baseball in SoCal because the Angels might be on the down swing. Also a guy like Heyward could've gone a long way towards preventing this team from sinking into this hole they appear headed into.

I'm convinced that if Heyward had to choose between the Angels and Cubs he would choose the Cubs just based on the health of the organization. The Cubs will be very good this season and it's not because they signed Heyward. They were already good. That's the reality.

[Ohtaniland]

That is a pretty easy thing to be convinced of. Might as well shit on the other 28 teams as well, since he didn't choose any of those either, but you won't. The Cubs spent money this off season, something we certainly didn't do.

No Stradling, our team is financially disfunctional. Not financially poor but the money spent doesn't match the talent level on the field. The farm is also a mess which means the current and short term future is shaky to say the least. Heyward has a chance to win now, next season and the season after that.

[seenoevil]

von hayes lol

[AngelsLakersFan]

Here you go --  his batted ball profiles show a gradual shift away from the opposite field.   It's not as drastic as most of us would likely expect to see given his time in Ahaheim.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1177&position=1B#battedball

 

Interesting that his opp rate dropped in 2009, and that last season was very good in this context compared to the last 7 years.