Nori Aoki

[nikkachez]

If you sign Aoki for LF, you have to improve your power numbers at 2nd and 3rd base, because Aoki has no power.  The only other idea would be improving your power at 3B, keep Johnny G at 2nd base and then sign Davis for DH/1B.  Trade Cron.

 

There is no way around it, this team needs more power.

Needs more power? That seems a bit extreme considering they got so much out of Trout, Pujols, and Kole last year. Ask the Royals how important power is to their scheme. The Angels had almost 40 more home runs than the Cardinals and Royals, one less than the Mets, four more than Texas, nine less than the Dodgers, 36 more than Pittsburgh, and five more than the hyped Cubs. Only playoff teams to truly run away in the home run department were Houston, Toronto, and the Yankees. To say the team needs power simply isn't right. Get guys who get on base for Trout, Albert, and Kole to slug in, solidify the back end of the lineup with some consistent, complimentary hitters. Improve the defense at a couple positions. Get that ace that can go toe-to-toe with other #1's. Make the bullpen a lockdown pen. 

 

I don't think Chris Davis helps as much as a Heyward, or Aoki packaged with a Price or Cueto and possibly even O'Day. Especially if Cron can provide more consistent power numbers. At the least, I think they'd need a 15-20 homer guy, but I don't think it's a necessity. 

[nikkachez]

If anything, I'd flip Cron in a deal for some depth pieces. Sign Aoki (or Heyward depending on which route Arte wants to go), take a chance on Avila, get Lind from Milwaukee, Prado or Escobar for third, and Eduardo Escobar from Minnesota for the utility infielder spot, then revamp the pitching staff. 

 

1. Aoki LF

2. Prado/Esocbar 3B

3. Trout CF

4. Calhoun RF

5. Pujols 1B/DH

6. Lind DH/1B

7. Aybar SS

8. Perez/Avila C (Perez still gets a majority of the work)

9. Giavotella 2B

[totdprods]

Aoki would be a great replacement for Murphy.

[marcosantinia12]

If anything, I'd flip Cron in a deal for some depth pieces. Sign Aoki (or Heyward depending on which route Arte wants to go), take a chance on Avila, get Lind from Milwaukee, Prado or Escobar for third, and Eduardo Escobar from Minnesota for the utility infielder spot, then revamp the pitching staff.

1. Aoki LF

2. Prado/Esocbar 3B

3. Trout CF

4. Calhoun RF

5. Pujols 1B/DH

6. Lind DH/1B

7. Aybar SS

8. Perez/Avila C (Perez still gets a majority of the work)

9. Giavotella 2B

Good ideas. What do you think it would take to trade for Lind? I'd imagine some of the pieces needed for him would be shipped for Prado/Escobar

[nikkachez]

Good ideas. What do you think it would take to trade for Lind? I'd imagine some of the pieces needed for him would be shipped for Prado/Escobar

Lind is interesting, I think a package around Tropeano could work. I'd look into them adding Will Smith if the Halos included something else. Maybe Cron, Trop, and a prospect or two for Lind and Smith? Use Santiago or Shoey for Prado/Escobar and then sign Cueto or Price. 

[VariousCrap]

Needs more power? That seems a bit extreme considering they got so much out of Trout, Pujols, and Kole last year. Ask the Royals how important power is to their scheme. The Angels had almost 40 more home runs than the Cardinals and Royals, one less than the Mets, four more than Texas, nine less than the Dodgers, 36 more than Pittsburgh, and five more than the hyped Cubs. Only playoff teams to truly run away in the home run department were Houston, Toronto, and the Yankees. To say the team needs power simply isn't right. Get guys who get on base for Trout, Albert, and Kole to slug in, solidify the back end of the lineup with some consistent, complimentary hitters. Improve the defense at a couple positions. Get that ace that can go toe-to-toe with other #1's. Make the bullpen a lockdown pen. 

 

I don't think Chris Davis helps as much as a Heyward, or Aoki packaged with a Price or Cueto and possibly even O'Day. Especially if Cron can provide more consistent power numbers. At the least, I think they'd need a 15-20 homer guy, but I don't think it's a necessity. 

 

 

By power, I don't just mean home run hitters.  I'm talking about run producers and the Angels need more of that.  Just remember what happened in August of last year when Trout and Pujols went silent at the plate.  This team couldn't score runs to save their lives.  The only way to offset that is with more run producers.

 

For the sake of this thread, if you sign Aoki for LF, you need to improve run producing from 2B and 3B.  Aoki is a guy who gets on base, but he doesn't bring in runs.

 

Also, the Angels aren't signing one of the top-tier pitchers like Cueto or Price; so mentioning them is pointless.

 

I stand behind the belief that if the Angels were to sign Aoki, they'd have to sign Murphy for 2B and trade for a 3B with run producing ability.  That would still leave them money for a second-tier starting pitcher and a relief pitcher like O'Day.

 

Chris Davis only would make sense if the Angels decided to stay with Johnny G at second base.  If they did that, they would need a huge bat.  Imagine a line-up with Aoki, Johnny G and Aybar.  Three singles hitters.  If they kept Johnny G, it would make sense to trade Cron for relief pitching or to get a 3B and then you bring in a bat like Davis.  It just makes case in this scenario.

 

If the 2015 offense proved anything, it is that if Trout and Pujols slump, this team can't score runs.  Don't forget, the decline of Pujols will continue as well.

[VariousCrap]

Lind is interesting, I think a package around Tropeano could work. I'd look into them adding Will Smith if the Halos included something else. Maybe Cron, Trop, and a prospect or two for Lind and Smith? Use Santiago or Shoey for Prado/Escobar and then sign Cueto or Price. 

 

 

 

You don't give up Trop for Adam Lind. lol

[tdawg87]

By power, I don't just mean home run hitters.  I'm talking about run producers and the Angels need more of that.  Just remember what happened in August of last year when Trout and Pujols went silent at the plate.  This team couldn't score runs to save their lives.  The only way to offset that is with more run producers.

 

For the sake of this thread, if you sign Aoki for LF, you need to improve run producing from 2B and 3B.  Aoki is a guy who gets on base, but he doesn't bring in runs.

 

Also, the Angels aren't signing one of the top-tier pitchers like Cueto or Price; so mentioning them is pointless.

 

I stand behind the belief that if the Angels were to sign Aoki, they'd have to sign Murphy for 2B and trade for a 3B with run producing ability.  That would still leave them money for a second-tier starting pitcher and a relief pitcher like O'Day.

 

Chris Davis only would make sense if the Angels decided to stay with Johnny G at second base.  If they did that, they would need a huge bat.  Imagine a line-up with Aoki, Johnny G and Aybar.  Three singles hitters.  If they kept Johnny G, it would make sense to trade Cron for relief pitching or to get a 3B and then you bring in a bat like Davis.  It just makes case in this scenario.

 

If the 2015 offense proved anything, it is that if Trout and Pujols slump, this team can't score runs.  Don't forget, the decline of Pujols will continue as well.

 

Well, in order to produce runs, they need guys who can actually get on base to score those runs. 

 

Also, everyone keeps forgetting Calhoun. Hit 26 homers and drove in 83 runs. He's a pretty solid run producer. Getting a guy (or two) who can get on base would push Kole back to the 5th spot, with Cron taking up the 6th spot. That's a pretty damn solid 3-6.

[tdawg87]

You don't give up Trop for Adam Lind. lol

 

Yes you do.

 

I don't think he's a fit anymore but he would cost at least Trop and another solid prospect or two.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Yes you do.

I don't think he's a fit anymore but he would cost at least Trop and another solid prospect or two.

Agreed. One thing i think people are being slow to realize is that while SP is still gold, theres far more of it out there now than there was even just 2-3 years ago. And unless youre talking about bonafide front end guys, the "solid number 3-4" types of the world dont have the same value anymore. In the same way as a 25 home run, .280 average guy is pretty big news today, but compared to a decade ago there were about 6 of those as free agents every winter

[nikkachez]

Well, in order to produce runs, they need guys who can actually get on base to score those runs. 

 

Also, everyone keeps forgetting Calhoun. Hit 26 homers and drove in 83 runs. He's a pretty solid run producer. Getting a guy (or two) who can get on base would push Kole back to the 5th spot, with Cron taking up the 6th spot. That's a pretty damn solid 3-6.

 

Thaaaaaank you. Obviously there's more to it than power, you actually need guys on base to produce runs. The problem, if Scioscia really wants Trout hitting third, is that there are no options to get on base in front of Trout. Trout had terrific numbers with RISP this season, but nothing to show for it because of the lack of opportunities. Kole is slowly transforming into a middle-of-the-order bat. It's not a bad thing, but you need someone to replace him at the top. Aoki gives Trout, a healthy Pujols, and Kole chances to smack in runs. Add another guy who gets on base at a decent clip, Prado/Escobar, and the lineup's probably good. Just needs complimentary players after that (Marwin Gonzalez/Eduardo Escobar, Alex Avila, David Murphy?, Adam Lind). 

 

Yes you do.

 

I don't think he's a fit anymore but he would cost at least Trop and another solid prospect or two. 

 

Lind's a freaking solid hitter, if Cron is used as trade bait, Lind makes a ton of sense for the roster. Left handed pop in the middle of the lineup. I like Will Smith and Jeremy Jeffress from Milwaukee too. 

[tdawg87]

I like Lind as well. But I also like Cron and he's much cheaper.

 

Not as good as Lind.....yet, but he's getting there. His D sucks but is improving as well.

[VariousCrap]

Yes you do.

 

I don't think he's a fit anymore but he would cost at least Trop and another solid prospect or two.

 

 

Lind is not worth Trop when it comes to the Angels.  If you are the Angels, you don't give up pitching depth for a Lind.

Edited November 7, 2015 by VariousCrap

[VariousCrap]

Well, in order to produce runs, they need guys who can actually get on base to score those runs. 

 

Also, everyone keeps forgetting Calhoun. Hit 26 homers and drove in 83 runs. He's a pretty solid run producer. Getting a guy (or two) who can get on base would push Kole back to the 5th spot, with Cron taking up the 6th spot. That's a pretty damn solid 3-6.

 

 

Getting on base is what they would be getting Aoki for.  There is nobody else out there for them to get for that.

 

Still need power because Cron is still a question mark for being consistent and Kole and his strikeouts is a concern.

 

We need more run producers.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Lind's option of 8M was picked up by the Brewers.

[ettin]

Lind is not worth Trop when it comes to the Angels.  If you are the Angels, you don't give up pitching depth for a Lind.

 

Have to 100% agree with VC here, five years of Tropeano is not even in the same realm of value as one year of Lind.

 

Tropeano >> Lind

[ten ocho recon scout]

I agree to a point ettin, but remember conger landed us trop and perez.

Im not saying lind is a good target for trop, but i also dont think we should overrate hime just yet. Has some good upside, club control, etc. But i also think if the brewers were willing to trade lind they could get a guy like trop if they wanted one.

[tdawg87]

Getting on base is what they would be getting Aoki for.  There is nobody else out there for them to get for that.

 

Still need power because Cron is still a question mark for being consistent and Kole and his strikeouts is a concern.

 

We need more run producers.

 

Heyward, Zobrist, etc...

 

Also: "Kole and his strikeouts is a concern". You mean like Cespedes who K'd 141 times this year? Or Upton who K'd 159 times? Or hell, Mike Trout who K'd 158 times?

 

Guys who hit for power and produce runs are going to strike out a lot.

[marcosantinia12]

Man, signing Aoki makes more and more sense the more I think about it. 

 

Sign Aoki 2/9 (4.5 mil per)

​Sign Kendrick 4/40 (10 mil per - I think he agrees due to his attached pick + stays in Southern Cali)

Sign O'day 3/22.5 (7.5 mil per)

Sign Bastardo 3/15 (5 mil per)

Trade Salas and Ramos for 2-3 minor league bats (SAVE 3 mil per)

Trade Santiago for Prado (+2 mil per)

 

Lineup with 3 Year averages (* represents exclusions):

1. Aoki (.353 OBP)

2. Kendrick (.340 OBP + .295 BA)

3. Trout (.973 OPS)

4. Pujols (33 HR - 2012 to 2015, excluded injured 2013 season) *

5. Calhoun (22 HR + 27 Doubles - 2014 and 2015, excluded 58 games in 2013) *

6. Prado (.284 BA + .333 OBP + 28 Doubles)

7. Cron (.444 SLG)

8. Perez (limited sample)

9. Aybar (.273 BA)

 

Rotation:

1. Richards

2. Wilson

3. Heaney

4. Weaver

5. Tropeano

Shoemaker and Skaggs (when ready) for depth to replace Weaver or other pitcher. 

 

Bullpen Back-end options :

Gott
Smith
Bastardo

O'Day

Street

 

Overall, this adds 26 million in salary for 2016 which keeps us really close to the luxury tax;all while drastically improving the team. The SP stays pretty mediocre, but with high upside. The pen becomes shut down, the defense improves substantially with Prado and Howie, and the offense improves greatly imo. Sure it doesn't add a "MOTTO bat" but you all of a sudden add a lot more runners on the bases. Calhoun becomes the extra run producer we need (or want) in the 5th spot. Prado is versatile in the ability to both get on and drive in runners. Cron batting all the way down on the 7 spot is pretty dangerous. 

 

Only thing that sucks is loosing a draft pick to pick up Howie.  Ideally, Arte goes over the tax for the right player being Zobrsit and signs him for 3/51 instead of Kendrick. In this scenario, we retain our pick and add 33 million total to our 2016 salary going slightly over the threshold. Zobrist replaces Kendrick in the Lineup (.356 OBP 3 year average). 

Edited November 7, 2015 by marcosantinia12

[ten ocho recon scout]

I like it ^ span works in there just as well.

[Cdaniel]

Man, signing Aoki makes more and more sense the more I think about it.

Sign Aoki 2/9 (4.5 mil per)

​Sign Kendrick 4/40 (10 mil per - I think he agrees due to his attached pick + stays in Southern Cali)

Sign O'day 3/22.5 (7.5 mil per)

Sign Bastardo 3/15 (5 mil per)

Trade Salas and Ramos for 2-3 minor league bats (SAVE 3 mil per)

Trade Santiago for Prado (+2 mil per)

Lineup with 3 Year averages (* represents exclusions):

1. Aoki (.353 OBP)

2. Kendrick (.340 OBP + .295 BA)

3. Trout (.973 OPS)

4. Pujols (33 HR - 2012 to 2015, excluded injured 2013 season) *

5. Calhoun (22 HR + 27 Doubles - 2014 and 2015, excluded 58 games in 2013) *

6. Prado (.284 BA + .333 OBP + 28 Doubles)

7. Cron (.444 SLG)

8. Perez (limited sample)

9. Aybar (.273 BA)

Rotation:

1. Richards

2. Wilson

3. Heaney

4. Weaver

5. Tropeano

Shoemaker and Skaggs (when ready) for depth to replace Weaver or other pitcher.

Bullpen Back-end options :

Bastardo

O'Day

Street

Smith

Gott

Overall, this adds 26 million in salary for 2016 which keeps us really close to the luxury tax;all while drastically improving the team. The SP stays pretty mediocre, but with high upside. The pen becomes shut down, the defense improves substantially with Prado and Howie, and the offense improves greatly imo. Sure it doesn't add a "MOTTO bat" but you all of a sudden add a lot more runners on the bases. Calhoun becomes the extra run producer we need (or want) on the 5th spot. Prado is versatile in the ability to both get on and drive in runners. Cron batting all the way down on the 7 spot is pretty dangerous.

Only thing that sucks is loosing a draft pick to pick up Howie. Ideally, Arte goes over the tax for the right player being Zobrsit and signs him for 3/51 instead of Kendrick. In this scenario, we retain our pick and add 33 million total to our 2016 salary going slightly over the threshold. Zobrist replaces Kendrick in the Lineup (.356 OBP 3 year average).

I like it!

Instead of signing Howie what if we traded for Walker and signed Cueto? Sure we go over the tax in thi scenario but we address all concerns and we don't lose a draft pick.

[marcosantinia12]

I like it ^ span works in there just as well.

 

I like it!

Instead of signing Howie what if we traded for Walker and signed Cueto? Sure we go over the tax in thi scenario but we address all concerns and we don't lose a draft pick.

I like Span as well, would love to have either one of him or Aoki for cheap.

As far as Cueto, I am very scared giving him a 5+ year contract having seen him struggle in the AL. Seeing that his stock has DRASTICALLY dropped, if he does go back to his NL form than he is a bargain. Just don't know if we can afford to take that risk.  I would  love getting Walker though! Even if we don't go after Cueto. That said, I don't know if we have enough to materialize both Prado and Walker trades without sending off too much young talent. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

I think cueto will be better than we saw in his second half. Yes, its worrisome, but i think part of it was just an adjustment period for him.

Thats not me saying go out and sign him, i just think its like cespedes...dont let 2 months make up your mind about a guy.

Of all the FA pitchers id kind of target him the most just because the peoce tag 'should' be lower. Then again, hes the kind of guy that seems doable because his cost should be low, only to have like the yankees or dodgers blow everyone out to get him.

[Cdaniel]

What does everyone think it will take to get Prado and Walker? I Cueto will be fine. The guy has been a stud for the Reds for awhile.

[Cdaniel]

I also wouldn't mind giving Fister a 1 or 2 year deal as well