I've come to a conclusion

[eligrba]

That either Scioscia or Dipoto need to go, because they can't coexist and create a winner. The two have different ideals and it is showing up on the field. Like I have said in the past, I would rather keep Dipoto than Scioscia, but God did Dipoto put together a very boring offense and a poorly constructed team. I mentioned this in a thread yesterday, but the team has no speed, no power, doesn't really work counts, and is poor defensively at 3rd, Left, Catcher and as much as I like Trout he is an average defensive CFer. We also have no arms in the outfield to limit guys from scoring on basehits. We have no bench players that you feel comfortable enough pinch hitting. There is no Left Handed power on this team at all. We can all bitch about Pujols but he is still the third best option with runners on base behind Trout and Calhoun, just for the simple fact that he can occasionally run into a fastball and hit it out. If you are going to have a manager that likes to hit and run and be aggresive on the base paths, then surround him with a team that can do those things. If you are going to have a manager that values seeing a lot of pitches, like Boston, NY or Oakland, then find guys that can do that. We don't have guys that can do either. One of the Quinlans on here, probably QM says the Angels would be .500 with a different manager, not a chance in hell with this roster. There is no magic button to fix all the shit that we are seeing so far this year. Iannetta has been awful as has Joyce, so I highly doubt a different manager can figure them out. This team is better than this, but the results aren't there yet. They will hit a hot streak and get over .500 again, and obviously they can still get to the playoffs, but the way this team is constructed, that playoff appearance will be short lived, unless they make 2 or 3 impact moves. I'm a huge fan and I am mostly a positive person and see the bright side of things, but if I were a new fan to this team, I don't know what would keep me coming back. We have zero young players in their first or second year that are compelling and that you want to see how they develop. Our closest thing to a prospect that has a future on this team is Mike Morin. I probably shouldn't post after a frustrating loss, but this is how I feel about the team right now.

 

The talent you desire is probably in the farm system but too far away to be considered.  This has all the making of a dry spell that all teams go through.  This team, in all aspects is not very good.

 

 

Stradling; this is how a forum works.  One person posts a comment, maybe funny, maybe emotional,  and people respond engaging in a conversation.

[fan_since79]

An aging, slow, team with a young and fast superstar and a lesser star beside him (Calhoun)

Inconsistent starting pitching

Huston Street and some other assorted pitchers in the bullpen

A manager who preaches aggressive, not smart, baserunning

Hitters who can't hit

 

80-85 wins.

[nando714]

80-85 wins.

This might win us the divison Considering this is the absolute worst division in Baseball

[Cycled314]

My perspective is from a distance ... but whose team is this really? 

 

What I see are some players thrown into the mix by the owner (Pujols & the now Texas Ranger Josh Hamilton), some elements here and there by the GM, and who knows what pieces might belong to the Manager but in the end he (presumably) fills out the lineup card and puts guys "in position to succeed".

 

Decisions seem to be made based on the latest shiny object and not from a coherent approach with buy-in from all parties - Owner, Front Office, Manager and everyone in between.

 

To me this team in its current incarnation is a too many cooks in the kitchen stew that they all messed with too much and now they can't undo what's in the pot (so to speak).  A lineup is so very much more than the sum of its parts and the successful recipe they had last year is gone.

 

 

 

(also ... I wonder if they would've traded Kendrick if they had any inclination Hamilton was going to relapse?)

[Mark68]

Arte signing Hamilton is what screwed the pooch for this team. Assuming Hamilton would have somewhat similar production to what he did in Texas (at least the first couple of years), and then counting on him being healthy this year is how/why a lot of the moves were made this past off-season.

 

So, what do we have? The remaining $68 million of Hamilton's contract that Arte pays while Hamilton plays for our division rival, which leaves precious little room in the budget, assuming Arte still refuses to exceed the luxury tax payroll threshold.

 

Arte signing Hamilton ****ed this team over.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Mark68

[shellback]

scioscia is a jerk, but he's only part of the problem. ianetta= .091 ??? freese at .212 ???

it has appeared for a long time that scioscia is a egomaniac that the players have tuned out. he almost seems to manage to his teams weaknesses maybe to prove his point (the roster is not what i want). see the mathis debacle. see his inability to let go of the dodgers formula of speed and pitching.

but getting rid of big boy or dp ain't gonna change the teams players.

[ELEVEN]

My perspective is from a distance ... but whose team is this really?

What I see are some players thrown into the mix by the owner (Pujols & the now Texas Ranger Josh Hamilton), some elements here and there by the GM, and who knows what pieces might belong to the Manager but in the end he (presumably) fills out the lineup card and puts guys "in position to succeed".

Decisions seem to be made based on the latest shiny object and not from a coherent approach with buy-in from all parties - Owner, Front Office, Manager and everyone in between.

To me this team in its current incarnation is a too many cooks in the kitchen stew that they all messed with too much and now they can't undo what's in the pot (so to speak). A lineup is so very much more than the sum of its parts and the successful recipe they had last year is gone.

(also ... I wonder if they would've traded Kendrick if they had any inclination Hamilton was going to relapse?)

Someone left the cake out in the rain

[Chuck]

I dont think dipoto could have predicted that weaver would nosedive, Joyce would be literally the worst player in mlb, iannetta would completely forget how to hit, and the bullpen to be as mediocre as it has been.

This is far from a perfect team, but there are several players that have fallen flat on their faces

 

This is exactly how I feel. 

 

The offense/roster isn't much different than the team that steamrolled over opposing teams to a tune of 98 wins last year, scoring the most runs in baseball.

 

If any of the two is the problem, it's Scioscia. He has made some horrible decisions so far this season. Very irritating. 

[Jim]

I dont think dipoto could have predicted that weaver would nosedive, Joyce would be literally the worst player in mlb, iannetta would completely forget how to hit, and the bullpen to be as mediocre as it has been.

This is far from a perfect team, but there are several players that have fallen flat on their faces

I'll give you the last two, but the first two were highly predictable. 

[hen3ry]

How can Pujols contract be the worst in MLB when Hamilton's contract still exists?

How can Joyce be the worst player in MLB when Iannetta's still on the roster?

 

The problem isn't that we have (or in Ham's case, had) the worst of the worst.  The problem is we ALSO have the second worst.  A team can survive suckage - but only in moderation.

 

There are two reasons to fire a manager;

1)  The manager truly is mismanaging.

2)  You can't fire the players.

 

Both apply at this point, but it's more the second than the first.

Edited May 5, 2015 by hen3ry

[ten ocho recon scout]

I dont think dipoto could have predicted that weaver would nosedive, Joyce would be literally the worst player in mlb, iannetta would completely forget how to hit, and the bullpen to be as mediocre as it has been.

This is far from a perfect team, but there are several players that have fallen flat on their faces

This

Im not trying to defend anyone. But im kind of resigned to schrugging my shoulders this year. Reality is were qquietly retooling. Joyce was meant as depth, not a starter. Iannetta has been very solid (bat wise) since hes been here. Aybar should wake up.

But we knew losing howie would hurt. It was a good move though to nab heaney (for the future...see weaver). The FO was expecting hamilton to be there this year during the winter...i dont think they expected to lose both him and howie at the same time, nor did they expect joyce to start and be this bad, iannetta/aybar to stumble, etc.

It is what it is. Its gonna be a boring year (but i expect them to wake up soon). But it think the vision of the org is a year or two from now, grich,shoe, heaney and newcomb anchor a solid staff centered around trout and calhoun (plus a FA bat signed either this uear or next). It will suck if heaney and newcomb flame out, but if they make it then were gonna be in a pretty good spot.

[ten ocho recon scout]

As for sosh, im not a huge fan, but i dont think this is on him. These guys need to hit...we all know they can...its just theyre all slumped at the same time. Dont think thats on sosh.

Sosh has no more to do with weaver falling off than he does the emergence of richards and shoe. And if those arent on him, neither is the offense (imo). Id point fingers at sosh for not playing the right guys, but he doesnt have a ton of options right now. Maybe cowgill over joyce, but doubt that does much

[AngelsSurfer]

This isn't one entity's doing; everyone has a hand in it. Dipoto has made some horrible trades --Kendrick for Heaney is a debacle thus far, and given Hamilton's production in 2013 and 2014, I'm not sure why anyone would have counted on him. However Dipoto has also made some really good ones, such as trading Frieri for Grilli and bringing Giovatella, Perez and Tropeano on board. Santiago is finding his stride, And as for Skaggs? Well, the TJ gods can hit anyone and there's no crystal ball with that. Dipoto didn't bring on an injured player; it was just bad luck. And by all accounts, Skaggs is extremely motivated to get back to work, so hopefully he will be a great addition to the starting rotation in 2016. And it seems that Dipoto was trying to perhaps trying to insure against starting pitcher problems (Weaver's decline, Wilson potentially having ongoing issues, etc.) and develop the next generation by bringing in people like Tropeano, Newcomb and Heaney. Could some money have better been spent on an established starter? Hindsight's 20/20.

 

And the players? Who the hell knows. I'm not seeing a lack of motivation; I'm seeing something that's not quite clicking and implosions of players who were good last year.

 

Overall, I'd pin more of the problems on Scioscia, though. Scioscia continues to make bad decisions about lineups; keeps pitchers in when they should get the hook; and hangs on with poorly performing players way too long. Last year he kept playing Frieri and Ibanez; this year it's Joyce.

Edited May 5, 2015 by AngelsSurfer

[eaterfan]

My opinion:

1) It's early. This team isn't as good or lucky as last year's team (when it comes to guys playing over their heads). But the team isn't as bad or unlucky as it has been so far this year. .500 or a few games above would be nice and reasonable.

2) I actually think 85 wins is a nice accomplishment when you look at the talent on the team. Go through Fangraphs position power rankings heading into the year. We had Trout, Calhoun and Aybar as good or better players and many positions were terrible.

3) I think Dipoto has done a good job since the Hamilton signing of making the organization better. He hasn't had much in terms of tradeable assets and or budget to improve the team. He didn't inherent a farm system ripe with talent. He hasn't destroyed anyone in a trade but he's incrementally improved the organizational strength while getting younger and cutting costs since the Hamilton signing.

3) I think Dipoto did see the end coming for some of the older guys like Weaver and Wilson and that's why he's gone about stocking up on young pitching depth. You had to give Weaver every chance to start this season and get back on track. Same with Ianetta. But we now have back up plans for both. It's now deciding how much longer of a rope we give these guys.

4) Mike Trout is a God. He covers up for a lot of sins. Look at teams that are aging, expensive and lack talent on 80% of the roster. You get teams like the Knicks, Raiders and the Lakers of the last 3 years. It takes years to get young, cheap and talented. Those teams are bottom feeders and unwatchable. At least the Angels are average. The Angels it also seems have realized their mistakes and are attempting to build the farm and young MLB depth.

[halobob]

My opinion:

1) It's early. This team isn't as good or lucky as last year's team (when it comes to guys playing over their heads). But the team isn't as bad or unlucky as it has been so far this year. .500 or a few games above would be nice and reasonable.

2) I actually think 85 wins is a nice accomplishment when you look at the talent on the team. Go through Fangraphs position power rankings heading into the year. We had Trout, Calhoun and Aybar as good or better players and many positions were terrible.

3) I think Dipoto has done a good job since the Hamilton signing of making the organization better. He hasn't had much in terms of tradeable assets and or budget to improve the team. He didn't inherent a farm system ripe with talent. He hasn't destroyed anyone in a trade but he's incrementally improved the organizational strength while getting younger and cutting costs since the Hamilton signing.

3) I think Dipoto did see the end coming for some of the older guys like Weaver and Wilson and that's why he's gone about stocking up on young pitching depth. You had to give Weaver every chance to start this season and get back on track. Same with Ianetta. But we now have back up plans for both. It's now deciding how much longer of a rope we give these guys.

4) Mike Trout is a God. He covers up for a lot of sins. Look at teams that are aging, expensive and lack talent on 80% of the roster. You get teams like the Knicks, Raiders and the Lakers of the last 3 years. It takes years to get young, cheap and talented. Those teams are bottom feeders and unwatchable. At least the Angels are average. The Angels it also seems have realized their mistakes and are attempting to build the farm and young MLB depth.

This...the 2011-2013 Angels had more than their fair share of bad luck then a year of fantastic luck and 98 wins last season.  It looks like the bad luck has comeback in full force to start this year but hopefully it will even out throughout the rest of the year.  

[Angel Oracle]

I have mentioned this a couple of times, but would it hurt JeDi to hire an asst GM in charge of putting the offense/defense together?

JeDi knows pitching. Now we desperately need someone assisting him who understands offense/defense in 2015.

This is a piss poorly constructed offense/defense for today's pitching strong era.

[Mark68]

This year will be a struggle. So will next year. 2017 will be better, because the only big contracts we'll (presumably) have then will be Pujols & Trout (probably GRich). We should have nice young talent in the rotation (GRich, Skaggs, Tropeano, Heaney, Newcomb) and the financial wherewithal to plug any holes that might exist at the time.

[Jim]

Way to bust a nut here Strad. Been a long time coming. You've been a great defender of the org. As a staunch "everyone sucks except for Trout" believer for a while, I can tell you one thing; the team is not better than this.

This is your team. Ianetta never has been good. He was decent at best. Freese, just an October heroics guy who really isn't much of a player either. Aybar has been somewhat dependable over the years but always prone to some really dumb shit. Pujols, the worst contract in baseball. Guy's body is showing the signs of a dude who carried teams on his back for too many years. Obviously the Hamilton situation left us with a big hole. But even he was suffering from body failure too. No knock on Johnny G, but we traded Kendrick - a key offensive and defensive component. Irregardless of what we got for him, that was a real loss. For all the dps how hit into, he had many a clutch hits. He also was magic defensively. Sadly, Weaver has lost it. But the pitching isn't getting rocked. If our offense was any good, we'd probably be right on the Astros heels.

Cowgil sucks. Joyce is awful. Let's face it, we are lucky Calhoun has paid off.

We are a band aided team that prays on a rally and decent enough pitching.

Unfortunately this team isn't better than this. This is our team. We have two-three guys in the lineup we can hope make things happen. Calhoun and Trout can hit and run. Pujols, just staying healthy might hit 25-30 hrs. Aybar does enough to be in there but when he sucks defensively, it really kills us

Beyond that we have guys that probably shouldn't be every day starters on any team: Joyce, Freese, Ianetta, Cowgill, Johnny G, Cron.

We could live with one of those guys, Cron maybe, existing in a lineup of qualified players. But he's a 24-year old DH. Who needs that??

You could point your finger a million different ways. Arte possibly demanded certain FA signings (I don't know what's really true) which appear to go against any type of building strategy Dipoto has. Dipoto has made several very lackluster signings and trades.

Off-hand I can't think of one that is overwhelmingly an Angels winner. I would say Trumbo for Skaggs and Santiago was still good, but we will see what happens to Skaggs after he recovers.

And you can point fingers at Sosh for a variety of things. Not taking out CJ Wilson and pinch hitting for him, the fact the Cowgill thought he could run. There's a lot of dumb shit we see day in and day out. Trout getting doubled off.

The organization feels disjointed and in a perfect world I'd love to see Arte, Dipoto, and Sosh all gone. They have strengths for sure but their weaknesses really are amplified working together. I love Don Baylor, but he is the hitting coach. If this were Hatcher in there, everyone would call for his head. He can't have a free pass either.

Probably easiest to dump Sosh and pretty much his entire coaching squad. Next thing is to dump Dipoto. Probably after the season.

Arte seems too much like a Jerry Jones to me. If you guys are melting down, he has to be wearing severely frayed nerves.

As I started to write a response to Stradling I decided to read the other comments first, glad I did. You just put to print everything I feel about this team, down to the Jerry Jones comparison. 

 

It feels like we are in a weird rebuilding stage.  

 

  

[fan_since79]

Speaking of nice young talent, how is Rucinski doing ?

[eaterfan]

As I started to write a response to Stradling I decided to read the other comments first, glad I did. You just put to print everything I feel about this team, down to the Jerry Jones comparison.

It feels like we are in a weird rebuilding stage.

Trout and our payroll are the only things keeping this from looking like a total rebuild. Without Trout we're a 70 win team and without the high payroll it wouldn't look like we were even trying to win.

I think our only options are to wait for Hamilton, Wilson and Weaver to come off the books. The system is pretty baren when it comes to positron players but we have some decent young arms. If we can get lucky with a few positron players this rebuild can be over with quickly.

[Jim]

Trout and our payroll are the only things keeping this from looking like a total rebuild. Without Trout we're a 70 win team and without the high payroll it wouldn't look like we were even trying to win.

I think our only options are to wait for Hamilton, Wilson and Weaver to come off the books. The system is pretty baren when it comes to positron players but we have some decent young arms. If we can get lucky with a few positron players this rebuild can be over with quickly.

The Angels are in a tough spot. So much emphasis put on the packaging and not enough on the content has gotten us to where we are. But Arte can’t completely abandon the packaging at this point either. I think his hand is forced with the Hamilton ordeal to take a step back and retool as best he can.

 

I just hope he allows the GM’s office to be completely responsible for the decisions as we move forward, good or bad. Imo, Dipoto’s moves (if they are his) haven’t been all that good or bad. He should be given all the responsibility and the time to carry out his moves.

[Ohtaniland]

Arte signing Hamilton is what screwed the pooch for this team. Assuming Hamilton would have somewhat similar production to what he did in Texas (at least the first couple of years), and then counting on him being healthy this year is how/why a lot of the moves were made this past off-season.

So, what do we have? The remaining $68 million of Hamilton's contract that Arte pays while Hamilton plays for our division rival, which leaves precious little room in the budget, assuming Arte still refuses to exceed the luxury tax payroll threshold.

Arte signing Hamilton ****ed this team over.

It's deeper than that. I blame Pujols for the Hamilton signing. If in 2012 Albert would've played like the dominant Albert Pujols that we saw in St Louis we wouldn't have needed to sign Hamilton. Dipoto would've gone after another front line pitcher instead. What was learned in 2012 was that Albert needed another slugger to hide between because his skill level was declining at a rapid pace. The Hamilton signing was designed to mask Albert's failure to be the player we thought we were getting. It all blew up in a hurry. It cost us Morales and Trumbo to make space for the two supers.

[stormngt]

We are four games under 500 and we are on a four game losing streak. It's a long season and streaks will come and go. It is silky to think Dipoto and Sosh ccan't Co exist. It is silky to suggest firing someone at this point. Let's see what adjustments can be made and then judge if someone can be fired.

Personally I believe Ianetta needs to sit. Joyce platoon ed with CJ as planned. Bring Green up. Weaver may need to skip a start.

[Stradling]

The talent you desire is probably in the farm system but too far away to be considered. This has all the making of a dry spell that all teams go through. This team, in all aspects is not very good.

Stradling; this is how a forum works. One person posts a comment, maybe funny, maybe emotional, and people respond engaging in a conversation.

I don't know why you gave me a run down of how a forum works, but thanks.

[Stradling]

i'm not gonna beat you up strad, but this isn't a conclusion it's an emotional response. read your own post and tell me if you can honestly say in hindsight that you were speaking with your intellect and not your emotions in this post. personally, i think i already know the answer.

Of course it was an emotional response, but it is also how I see the team right now. Do I think these two (Dipoto and Sosh) can co-exist, sure, if they get Sosh the kind of players he is comfortable with that compliments his style of play. He has exactly five of his type of players on the team, Trout, Kole, Johnny G, Aybar and Cowgill, the rest can't run, can't take an extra base and for the most part can't play defense. Where they took care of Sosh is by giving him a good back end of the bullpen. This team, is poorly constructed, plain and simple. We have a large budget, but we have a bench of less than stellar players. Now that wouldn't matter much if the starters were doing their job, but in reality they aren't. How many of our every day players are performing how anyone thought they would? I count possibly four, Trout, Kole, Johnny G (exceeding expectations) and Freese (but only because we didn't have high expectations). If you follow me on twitter you know I ALWAYS lean towards personal accountability of the players. Even if this team starts to perform, and I think it will be much better than this we still have a team of one dimensional players. We have a total of two guys on the roster that can hit for power and go first to third regularly. I am not saying this season is over, I am just saying that we are limited and EVERY player must do his part, or this will continue to be a brutal team to watch. This isn't Scioscia's fault but if I had to keep one or the other I would keep Dipoto.