I've come to a conclusion

[Stradling]

That either Scioscia or Dipoto need to go, because they can't coexist and create a winner. The two have different ideals and it is showing up on the field. Like I have said in the past, I would rather keep Dipoto than Scioscia, but God did Dipoto put together a very boring offense and a poorly constructed team. I mentioned this in a thread yesterday, but the team has no speed, no power, doesn't really work counts, and is poor defensively at 3rd, Left, Catcher and as much as I like Trout he is an average defensive CFer. We also have no arms in the outfield to limit guys from scoring on basehits. We have no bench players that you feel comfortable enough pinch hitting. There is no Left Handed power on this team at all. We can all bitch about Pujols but he is still the third best option with runners on base behind Trout and Calhoun, just for the simple fact that he can occasionally run into a fastball and hit it out. If you are going to have a manager that likes to hit and run and be aggresive on the base paths, then surround him with a team that can do those things. If you are going to have a manager that values seeing a lot of pitches, like Boston, NY or Oakland, then find guys that can do that. We don't have guys that can do either. One of the Quinlans on here, probably QM says the Angels would be .500 with a different manager, not a chance in hell with this roster. There is no magic button to fix all the shit that we are seeing so far this year. Iannetta has been awful as has Joyce, so I highly doubt a different manager can figure them out. This team is better than this, but the results aren't there yet. They will hit a hot streak and get over .500 again, and obviously they can still get to the playoffs, but the way this team is constructed, that playoff appearance will be short lived, unless they make 2 or 3 impact moves. I'm a huge fan and I am mostly a positive person and see the bright side of things, but if I were a new fan to this team, I don't know what would keep me coming back. We have zero young players in their first or second year that are compelling and that you want to see how they develop. Our closest thing to a prospect that has a future on this team is Mike Morin. I probably shouldn't post after a frustrating loss, but this is how I feel about the team right now.

[fan_since79]

Ike Davis doesn't think Trout is an average defensive center fielder.

[Stradling]

Ike Davis doesn't think Trout is an average defensive center fielder.

And Bill Stoneman didn't think GMjr was an average defensive center fielder. All centerfileders make great plays that is why they are CFers, that doesn't mean they are all great CFers.

[QuinlansMinion]

Hes costed us many games this year, like he does every year.

Its hard for a manager to win a game for you, but its really easy to lose one for you. The reason we get so many outs on the basepaths is because MS condones it. His philosophy has always been about reckless baserunning to "take the extra base.". We never see other teams do this to us, or beat themselves.

[fan_since79]

Scioscia will be going nowhere until the very end of his contract. When is that, by the way? 2018...2019? I can't recall.

 

He might even get a five-year extension or something similar.

[Hollyw00d]

I dont think dipoto could have predicted that weaver would nosedive, Joyce would be literally the worst player in mlb, iannetta would completely forget how to hit, and the bullpen to be as mediocre as it has been.

This is far from a perfect team, but there are several players that have fallen flat on their faces

[Stradling]

I'll ask you this, if he didn't condone it this year, who do you play when Aybar runs us out of an inning? Or tonight when Trout got doubled up off of first? Do you just go with Featherston at SS and Cowgill in center when you bench the guys making the mistakes? It isn't reckless base running, it is aggressive base running. Oh and KC did this to us, they just have a team that can do it. We all hated the steal attempt tonight, but if we had a player like Jarrod Dyson on the bench or Old School Figgins we would have loved it.

[fan_since79]

Hes costed us many games this year, like he does every year.

Its hard for a manager to win a game for you, but its really easy to lose one for you. The reason we get so many outs on the basepaths is because MS condones it. His philosophy has always been about reckless baserunning to "take the extra base.". We never see other teams do this to us, or beat themselves.

 

When you have speedsters on your team, you can take some chances and run often. We don't have that, except for Trout.

[Hoops McCann]

You left out the fact that the starting pitching is fair to poor and the bullpen is also fair, at best. 

 

I'm no fan of Dipoto, in fact, I think he has done a terrible job in assembling the roster.  Arte likely forced his hand in the past, but this year, he didnt do much to upgrade the team and the poor pitching I put squarely on his shoulders.

[Ohtaniland]

Mixed bag in the FO. Scioscia probably still

can't stand Dipoto. Arte tried to play Steinbrenner and failed big time. Dipoto completed flipped the roster with players and $$$$ only to watch the Moneyballers school his every move.

Trying to mix in two over the hill overpaid egotistical veterans into a lineup while eating up big salaries was a fatal error by the FO.

[Hollyw00d]

You left out the fact that the starting pitching is fair to poor and the bullpen is also fair, at best. 

 

I'm no fan of Dipoto, in fact, I think he has done a terrible job in assembling the roster.  Arte likely forced his hand in the past, but this year, he didnt do much to upgrade the team and the poor pitching I put squarely on his shoulders.

To be fair, this team was completely bereft of pitching prospects when he got here and now we are seeing the results.

I actually think he has done a decent job trying to scrape together young arms with very little to work with

[QuinlansMinion]

I'll ask you this, if he didn't condone it this year, who do you play when Aybar runs us out of an inning? Or tonight when Trout got doubled up off of first? Do you just go with Featherston at SS and Cowgill in center when you bench the guys making the mistakes? It isn't reckless base running, it is aggressive base running. Oh and KC did this to us, they just have a team that can do it. We all hated the steal attempt tonight, but if we had a player like Jarrod Dyson on the bench or Old School Figgins we would have loved it.

We dont have the team to go for the extra base and we certainly cant afford to run into outs.  When you're a team that relies on the home run to score and you run into unnecessary outs, thats not going to work out well for you.    

[Tyler]

[ukyah]

so now dipoto is shit again because the team is playing badly? last year 98 wins, this offseason he was a wizard on this board for getting the arms he got in heany, tropeano for conger, but now half the team can't hit .100 and dipoto sucks? i wasn't a big fan of this year's roster in spring training, we're old in some bad spots, thin in others and up against the salary cap. all of that is true, but they can't just make it all disappear. i feel that the angels need to spend their way out of the hole they dug for years, but they have a reality that i'm not a part of and they are one of the highest spending teams in mlb. so, it's hard to beat them up too much. the pitching staff is worse and that's a fact, but this offense scored the most runs in mlb last year. not scoring runs is purely on the players' backs right now and not dipoto and barely on scioscia really.

[ukyah]

That either Scioscia or Dipoto need to go, because they can't coexist and create a winner. The two have different ideals and it is showing up on the field. Like I have said in the past, I would rather keep Dipoto than Scioscia, but God did Dipoto put together a very boring offense and a poorly constructed team. I mentioned this in a thread yesterday, but the team has no speed, no power, doesn't really work counts, and is poor defensively at 3rd, Left, Catcher and as much as I like Trout he is an average defensive CFer. We also have no arms in the outfield to limit guys from scoring on basehits. We have no bench players that you feel comfortable enough pinch hitting. There is no Left Handed power on this team at all. We can all bitch about Pujols but he is still the third best option with runners on base behind Trout and Calhoun, just for the simple fact that he can occasionally run into a fastball and hit it out. If you are going to have a manager that likes to hit and run and be aggresive on the base paths, then surround him with a team that can do those things. If you are going to have a manager that values seeing a lot of pitches, like Boston, NY or Oakland, then find guys that can do that. We don't have guys that can do either. One of the Quinlans on here, probably QM says the Angels would be .500 with a different manager, not a chance in hell with this roster. There is no magic button to fix all the shit that we are seeing so far this year. Iannetta has been awful as has Joyce, so I highly doubt a different manager can figure them out. This team is better than this, but the results aren't there yet. They will hit a hot streak and get over .500 again, and obviously they can still get to the playoffs, but the way this team is constructed, that playoff appearance will be short lived, unless they make 2 or 3 impact moves. I'm a huge fan and I am mostly a positive person and see the bright side of things, but if I were a new fan to this team, I don't know what would keep me coming back. We have zero young players in their first or second year that are compelling and that you want to see how they develop. Our closest thing to a prospect that has a future on this team is Mike Morin. I probably shouldn't post after a frustrating loss, but this is how I feel about the team right now.

 

 

i'm not gonna beat you up strad, but this isn't a conclusion it's an emotional response. read your own post and tell me if you can honestly say in hindsight that you were speaking with your intellect and not your emotions in this post. personally, i think i already know the answer.

[NrM]

As much as we loved the trades at the time, they haven't payed off at all. Obviously a lot can happen going forward though.

 

Trumbo for Santiago and Skaggs....skaggs with the TJ and santiago has been extremely inconsistent

Kendrick for Heaney........ Heaney was supposed to be major league ready... instead he's struggling in Salt Lake...

Bourjos and Grichuck for Freese.... freese has been a huge disappointment

Josh rutledge.... useless

Kubitza.... doesn't look like a mlb caliber starter.

Baldoquin... MIA

Edited May 5, 2015 by Poozy

[Docwaukee]

I am frustrated as the next guy by tonight's loss, but I just don't think we are better off with some other manager or GM.  I disagree with MS on a regular basis, but by and large I think he's better than most.  Yes, he unnecessarily forces the issue and I don't like his pen management, but this is on the players so far.  

 

Weaver, Iannetta, and Joyce have been an unmitigated disaster.  Aybar, Pujols, Cron and Freese have been very bad.  There are three players on offense doing what they are capable.  

 

How could anyone expect a couple of these guys to be doing what they are doing let alone 2/3rds of the entire offense hitting around .200.  

 

Outside of Weaver, the pitching has been ok yet they could also stand to be better.  

 

Right now, we could use a good pen arm, some speed and a legit LFer, but more than anything, we need guys to do what they are capable of.  

[Lou]

Hes costed us many games this year, like he does every year.

Its hard for a manager to win a game for you, but its really easy to lose one for you. The reason we get so many outs on the basepaths is because MS condones it. His philosophy has always been about reckless baserunning to "take the extra base.". We never see other teams do this to us, or beat themselves.

 

ha

 

the " no credit, all blame " argument 

 

love it

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

As much as we loved the trades at the time, they haven't payed off at all. Obviously a lot can happen going forward though.

Trumbo for Santiago and Skaggs....skaggs with the TJ and santiago has been extremely inconsistent

Kendrick for Heaney........ Heaney was supposed to be major league ready... instead he's struggling in Salt Lake...

Bourjos and Grichuck for Freese.... freese has been a huge disappointment

Josh rutledge.... useless

Kubitza.... doesn't look like a mlb caliber starter.

Baldoquin... MIA

Couldn't get past the horrendous misspelling of paid.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

That either Scioscia or Dipoto need to go, because they can't coexist and create a winner. The two have different ideals and it is showing up on the field. Like I have said in the past, I would rather keep Dipoto than Scioscia, but God did Dipoto put together a very boring offense and a poorly constructed team. I mentioned this in a thread yesterday, but the team has no speed, no power, doesn't really work counts, and is poor defensively at 3rd, Left, Catcher and as much as I like Trout he is an average defensive CFer. We also have no arms in the outfield to limit guys from scoring on basehits. We have no bench players that you feel comfortable enough pinch hitting. There is no Left Handed power on this team at all. We can all bitch about Pujols but he is still the third best option with runners on base behind Trout and Calhoun, just for the simple fact that he can occasionally run into a fastball and hit it out. If you are going to have a manager that likes to hit and run and be aggresive on the base paths, then surround him with a team that can do those things. If you are going to have a manager that values seeing a lot of pitches, like Boston, NY or Oakland, then find guys that can do that. We don't have guys that can do either. One of the Quinlans on here, probably QM says the Angels would be .500 with a different manager, not a chance in hell with this roster. There is no magic button to fix all the shit that we are seeing so far this year. Iannetta has been awful as has Joyce, so I highly doubt a different manager can figure them out. This team is better than this, but the results aren't there yet. They will hit a hot streak and get over .500 again, and obviously they can still get to the playoffs, but the way this team is constructed, that playoff appearance will be short lived, unless they make 2 or 3 impact moves. I'm a huge fan and I am mostly a positive person and see the bright side of things, but if I were a new fan to this team, I don't know what would keep me coming back. We have zero young players in their first or second year that are compelling and that you want to see how they develop. Our closest thing to a prospect that has a future on this team is Mike Morin. I probably shouldn't post after a frustrating loss, but this is how I feel about the team right now.

Way to bust a nut here Strad. Been a long time coming. You've been a great defender of the org. As a staunch "everyone sucks except for Trout" believer for a while, I can tell you one thing; the team is not better than this.

This is your team. Ianetta never has been good. He was decent at best. Freese, just an October heroics guy who really isn't much of a player either. Aybar has been somewhat dependable over the years but always prone to some really dumb shit. Pujols, the worst contract in baseball. Guy's body is showing the signs of a dude who carried teams on his back for too many years. Obviously the Hamilton situation left us with a big hole. But even he was suffering from body failure too. No knock on Johnny G, but we traded Kendrick - a key offensive and defensive component. Irregardless of what we got for him, that was a real loss. For all the dps how hit into, he had many a clutch hits. He also was magic defensively. Sadly, Weaver has lost it. But the pitching isn't getting rocked. If our offense was any good, we'd probably be right on the Astros heels.

Cowgil sucks. Joyce is awful. Let's face it, we are lucky Calhoun has paid off.

We are a band aided team that prays on a rally and decent enough pitching.

Unfortunately this team isn't better than this. This is our team. We have two-three guys in the lineup we can hope make things happen. Calhoun and Trout can hit and run. Pujols, just staying healthy might hit 25-30 hrs. Aybar does enough to be in there but when he sucks defensively, it really kills us

Beyond that we have guys that probably shouldn't be every day starters on any team: Joyce, Freese, Ianetta, Cowgill, Johnny G, Cron.

We could live with one of those guys, Cron maybe, existing in a lineup of qualified players. But he's a 24-year old DH. Who needs that??

You could point your finger a million different ways. Arte possibly demanded certain FA signings (I don't know what's really true) which appear to go against any type of building strategy Dipoto has. Dipoto has made several very lackluster signings and trades.

Off-hand I can't think of one that is overwhelmingly an Angels winner. I would say Trumbo for Skaggs and Santiago was still good, but we will see what happens to Skaggs after he recovers.

And you can point fingers at Sosh for a variety of things. Not taking out CJ Wilson and pinch hitting for him, the fact the Cowgill thought he could run. There's a lot of dumb shit we see day in and day out. Trout getting doubled off.

The organization feels disjointed and in a perfect world I'd love to see Arte, Dipoto, and Sosh all gone. They have strengths for sure but their weaknesses really are amplified working together. I love Don Baylor, but he is the hitting coach. If this were Hatcher in there, everyone would call for his head. He can't have a free pass either.

Probably easiest to dump Sosh and pretty much his entire coaching squad. Next thing is to dump Dipoto. Probably after the season.

Arte seems too much like a Jerry Jones to me. If you guys are melting down, he has to be wearing severely frayed nerves.

Edited May 5, 2015 by SOTO

[halomatt]

And Bill Stoneman didn't think GMjr was an average defensive center fielder. All centerfileders make great plays that is why they are CFers, that doesn't mean they are all great CFers.

Reads like a player's position on a Cricket pitch.

"And the Centerfileder make a stunning grab on the Truby lob!  Fantastic, really!"

[Ohtaniland]

We've flipped the GM. We've flipped the coaches. We've flipped the players. We have a huge payroll. We are now chasing the team we laughed about when the joined the AL West. The Astros had a $24M payroll a year and a half ago. Dipoto and Scioscia should voluntarily flip themselves.

[nando714]

Iron Clad Contract

If anyone were to be let go it's dipoto

[Ohtaniland]

Here's my conclusion. I don't see the same 98 win team out there. What I do see is the team that spent three playoff games sleepwalking.

[Jason]

They are not a 98 win team. They added nothing and some of the guys are older and less productive.