Uh oh...Iraq

[HaloMagic]

Your belief. The Catholic Church believes it's the real Body and Blood of Christ. This has been the same belief for 2,000 years.

Not to derail the thread or anything...

Right. The Catholic Church is literally wrong. Because it's just bread. You can watch them make it.

[fan_since79]

Right. The Catholic Church is literally wrong. Because it's just bread. You can watch them make it.

 

Again, just your belief.

 

The Church believes that by the priest repeating the words said by the Lord to his apostles at the Last Supper, the bread and wine are changed into His glorified Body and Blood through the power of God. The appearance of bread and wine remains. A miracle not explainable by natural means. According to Scripture, he also told them to do this in memory of Him.

 

Your belief is that the Church is wrong. Fair enough. There's nothing more to be added.

[mtangelsfan]

Right. The Catholic Church is literally wrong. Because it's just bread. You can watch them make it.

 

right now you aren't being much better than bak.  Oh, and I'm not a Catholic.

[Blarg]

I was brought up a Lutheran and our minister never told us there is a miracle transformation of bread into the body of Christ and the wine was Christ's blood. It was all a metaphor as to sustaining oneself with the principles and spirit of Christ as the nourishment of the soul, not an actual physical transformation of standard table fare. I'm not even sure Catholics believe there is a transformation of any physical objects during Mass and Communion, that would create miracle workers out of Priests. These are supposed to be lessons and symbolic practices of faith not a daily/weekly/monthly miracle.

[TobiasFunke]

Hopefully this thread gets completely derailed to a convo on bread

[HaloMagic]

[mtangelsfan]

hm is being a douchebag.

[HaloMagic]

No. HM is being logical.

[HaloMagic]

Now HM is being a douchebag.

[mtangelsfan]

You are a crack up, its horrible to go after muslims but its just fine to mock Catholics.  Hypocrite.

[HaloMagic]

I didn't say Catholics were bad people hellbent on beheading everyone. I just said they were wrong about the bread thing. Plus, being nice to Muslims is TF's fight, not mine.

[mtangelsfan]

and if you were just stating an opinion it wouldn't be a big deal.

[HaloMagic]

But it's a fact. So I wouldn't state it as opinion. But it's still not a big deal. I agree with that part.

[Hollyw00d]

 

 

you have the jesus face toaster 3000 too?  I love mine.

[Blarg]

Yup, only a real douche shows pictures of toasted Jews.

[fan_since79]

I was brought up a Lutheran and our minister never told us there is a miracle transformation of bread into the body of Christ and the wine was Christ's blood. It was all a metaphor as to sustaining oneself with the principles and spirit of Christ as the nourishment of the soul, not an actual physical transformation of standard table fare. I'm not even sure Catholics believe there is a transformation of any physical objects during Mass and Communion, that would create miracle workers out of Priests. These are supposed to be lessons and symbolic practices of faith not a daily/weekly/monthly miracle.

 

Here you go:

 

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/christ-in-the-eucharist

[Blarg]

They say that in John 6 Jesus was not talking about physical food and drink, but about spiritual food and drink. They quote John 6:35: "Jesus said to them, ‘I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst.’" They claim that coming to him is bread, having faith in him is drink. Thus, eating his flesh and blood merely means believing in Christ.

 

 

Yeah, thanks for clarifying my point.

[fan_since79]

They say that in John 6 Jesus was not talking about physical food and drink, but about spiritual food and drink. They quote John 6:35: "Jesus said to them, ‘I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst.’" They claim that coming to him is bread, having faith in him is drink. Thus, eating his flesh and blood merely means believing in Christ.

 

 

Yeah, thanks for clarifying my point.

 

Glad to do that, but that was just part of your previous post. What non-Catholics tend to believe, and what you were taught as a Lutheran.

 

But then you said you didn't think Catholics believed in a real transformation of the physical elements. I bolded that part of your previous post.

That's why I linked that page in my response. It's a good summary of the Catholic teaching on the Eucharist. Catholics DO believe in a real change of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. The appearances of bread and wine remain, but the substance is changed.

Edited September 27, 2014 by fan_since79

[Blarg]

Next time you have a conversation with a Catholic ask them if they are really eating the body of Christ and not a symbol of it.

[bakunin]

I am going to Mass tomorrow and will tell you all about it. It is called transubstantiation, and we do indeed believe it to be the literal body and blood. It is one of the great mysteries of the Church, priests are not miracle workers, Our Lord is. the Catholic Church the extension of Him, for He founded it Himself. This why even if the other churches were to make the claim, it would not hold, as all other churches are the creations of men.

Edited September 28, 2014 by bakunin

[tdawg87]

[fan_since79]

Next time you have a conversation with a Catholic ask them if they are really eating the body of Christ and not a symbol of it.

 

If they say they're not, they haven't been taught the true doctrine of the Church, or are confused about it.

 

There's been a crisis in several areas of the Church in the past several decades, and religious education has been sadly one of those areas. This is a topic for another thread and another forum.

 

By the way, I have conversations with Catholics all the time, and the ones I know are well informed on the beliefs of the Church and share that same faith.

Edited September 28, 2014 by fan_since79

[Blarg]

Or they are smart enough to understand symbolism over literal translations. Like the article you posted, christ referred to himself as a door. Nobody is open g and closing doors in the church saying this is the door of christ.

Somewhere along the line a choice was made to take parables and metaphors and try and make them literal translations when it serves the Church. In the last supper he said in rememberence of me. That would be a clue he was speaking metaphorically.

On a more spiritual vein if you actually consumed the body and blood of Christ, literally through communion you would have to be a changed person. And yet many of the most notorious mob hitmen were Catholics, born, baptized, confirmed and married in the Church. All the while taking communion and going about their daily evil.

There seems to be a spiritual disconnect going on.

[bakunin]

It isn't a persons job to discern the Bible for themselves, that is what the Church is for. Personal interpretation of the Bible leads to Protestantism and other heresies.

 

We have been drinking the Body and Blood for two thousand years.

 

Transubstantiation does change the person... if they let Him.

Edited September 28, 2014 by bakunin

[TobiasFunke]

You guys are arguing over something that was written about 1,700 years ago