Uh oh...Iraq

[nate]

Western Civilization owes its entire existence to Christianity. Christ's first people, the people who literally walked among Our Lord, are being massacred and we are doing nothing about it. I am not in favor of being a world police, but I am in favor of sticking up for the very thing that gave us the means to be able to do something about it. White man may piss all over his ancestors and not give a shit about anything but himself, but the Muslims haven't forgotten the folks for whos sake they bled. We need to destroy all who threaten our Christian brothers, that's the bottom line. 

 

I just can't accept the narrative of letting it sort itself out. We have a duty. May Heaven consume us. 

 

Man, you really need to read a history book or two.

[Kevin]

Uhhh another thread turned into the Bakunin show. Can we just start a Bakunin thread where he can tout himself up however much he wants, and gets a free pass to say all of his repulsive things without reprocussion?

Another thread ruined by bak and it should not have been surprising that it happened.

[Lou]

how about everyone just put him on ignore and/or just stop responding to him? 

[Kevin]

I'll be honest, I've never put anyone on ignore. So the thought never occurred to me but good idea Lou.

[Amazing Larry]

I'd be fine with radical Islam being relegated to what Nazism has become. I'd call that a win.

Get ready for some massive casualties then. The Soviets lost over 20 million people eradicating the Nazis. Our citizens can't even stomach Vietnam type numbers of dead soldiers.

[Stradling]

20 million is a crazy number, truly horrific.

[TobiasFunke]

The Nazis at the time was the greatest standing army and airforce in the world not to mention they for the most part were an entire country and one of the biggest in Europe.

 

Can we please stop comparing IS to the Nazis?

[Blarg]

Can we compare actions against humanity?

[TobiasFunke]

Depends

[bakunin]

Comparing the NSDAP to ISIS is absolutely retarded. 

[gotbeer]

Chechen leader, Putin pal vows to crush ISIS after threat against Russia

 

So far, I like the butter on this popcorn.

[bakunin]

Russia doesn't really have the power to lead any sort of Crusade, especially against an invisible enemy. They wouldn't get into a long drawn out war unless it had some sort of monetary gain from it. 

[Kevin]

Nazis killing people because they are Jewish, homosexual, mentally challenged, and so forth. Of all ages and gender.

IS killing people because they are Christians or a different type of Muslim. I'm sure they would kills gays too. Of all ages and gender.

Both kill because someone is different than what the are. It doesn't fit into their ideology. I'll admit Tobias that this may be too simplistic but it is how I understand and view the current situation for now.

[bakunin]

NSDAP were a Third Reich. They were an actual empire, who were able to maintain constant assault from the world's largest economies/countries for quite some time. 

 

ISIS are a bunch of Islamist radicals who are only granted existence due to lack of government. If Saddam were alive, there would be no ISIS in Iraq, and Mosul Catholics would not be fleeing anywhere. 

[TobiasFunke]

Comparing the NSDAP to ISIS is absolutely retarded. 

I hate it when I agree with you

[Kevin]

People are arguing the similarities between the two is their brutality towards others. No one is saying they are exactly similar.

You're probably right in saying that Saddam would have destroyed groups like IS. He obviously was the most powerful of all middle eastern dictators. However you never know if there would have been an uprising in Iraq like there has been in Syria, Egypt, and Libya. In life, nothing is a definite.

[TobiasFunke]

Pulling the "Nazi card" in conversations though is always a definite

[Kevin]

Ha I stand corrected. Only this time it has some legitimacy.

[AngelsLongBall]

I wish we could go back "Choose your own adventure" style to when we were deciding whether to disband the Iraqi army.  If you want to disband, turn to page 127.  If you want to keep, turn to page 84.  I'd like to see how that adventure would have turned out.  We know what happened on page 127, and I think it has allowed IS to gain a foothold as well...

[bakunin]

Libya, Iraq, Syria are only possible through insurrection and instability. In Syria's case, it is NOT a civil war, but radical Islamists from all over the planet (tons from England, France, Germany) engaging in warfare against the Syrian people. 

 

Libya, again, a mess, no order, thus ISIS. Iraq, a mess, thus ISIS. Imagine ISIS trying to happen in Iran or in Saudi Arabia, or Jordan? Where there are strong central governments that crush and oppress minority radical movements. It just wouldn't happen.

[bakunin]

Muslims tend to be a very impulsive race of men. They need strong central governments or else they fall into radicalism. This is why Muslims in the West radicalize so often. 

[TobiasFunke]

Ha I stand corrected. Only this time it has some legitimacy.

But it kind of doesn't though.

 

Here, I can play your comparison game also.

 

Situation one: A country whose government takes a group of people that speaks a different language as the government, practices their own religion, has a completely different culture as the government. Said group of people is hated by the government/government supporters and either killed for their belief/culture or "forced" to put in government sponsored areas.

 

Situation two: A country whose government takes a group of people that speaks a different language as the government, practices their own religion, has a completely different culture as the government. Said group of people is hated by the government/government supporters and either killed for their belief/culture or forced to put in government sponsored areas.

 

 

Situation one is the American government in the 19th century and the American indigenous population.

 

Situation two is Nazi Germany and the Jews.

 

Therefore by a simplistic view, America in the 19th century = Nazi Germany

 

 

Pretty ridiculous yea? I think so also

[Kevin]

Libya, Iraq, Syria are only possible through insurrection and instability. In Syria's case, it is NOT a civil war, but radical Islamists from all over the planet (tons from England, France, Germany) engaging in warfare against the Syrian people. 

 

Libya, again, a mess, no order, thus ISIS. Iraq, a mess, thus ISIS. Imagine ISIS trying to happen in Iran or in Saudi Arabia, or Jordan? Where there are strong central governments that crush and oppress minority radical movements. It just wouldn't happen.

Syria isn't in a civil war? Granted, extremists went in and have altered what is going on there but that's not how it started. Didn't Libya and Egypt have some form of government that controlled the population for an extended period of time before they were overthrown? Again, maybe nothing like Iraq, Saudi Arabia, or Iran but not some piss poor excuse for a government running a large country.

History is full of guarantees they never materialize. The only fact that we can verify is Saddam was ousted and killed and we can only speculate on how he would have handled things if a group like IS showed up. You and I can't say definitively what would have happened since that opportunity will never be given a chance to happen.

[TobiasFunke]

Kevin, I would give you solid advice and not have a conversation/argue with Bakunin

[Kevin]

But it kind of doesn't though.

Here, I can play your comparison game also.

Situation one: A country whose government takes a group of people that speaks a different language as the government, practices their own religion, has a completely different culture as the government. Said group of people is hated by the government/government supporters and either killed for their belief/culture or "forced" to put in government sponsored areas.

Situation two: A country whose government takes a group of people that speaks a different language as the government, practices their own religion, has a completely different culture as the government. Said group of people is hated by the government/government supporters and either killed for their belief/culture or forced to put in government sponsored areas.

Situation one is the American government in the 19th century and the American indigenous population.

Situation two is Nazi Germany and the Jews.

Therefore by a simplistic view, America in the 19th century = Nazi Germany

Pretty ridiculous yea? I think so also

Fair enough. Very valid point. Having said that, can we make comparisons in your view point? It is not legitimate in your opinion to compare their acts to Nazis. Nor would it be legitimate to compare these guys to 19th century Americans. Can we compare them to anything or anyone? Only asking because it is a very interesting topic to discuss with others. Edited September 4, 2014 by Kevin