inequality for all

[Schildog]

it's released this friday in university theaters in irvine

 

 

[Lhalo]

Robert Reich is a Keynesian jerkoff.

[Adam]

I'm surprised that the market for pizza dough ballers isn't better. 

[RallyMo]

Robert Reich is a Keynesian jerkoff.

 

Good post!

 

Thank you for bumping this thread and making me aware of this film.

 

I'll definitely buy two or four tickets. I don't know if I agree with him or not and the only way to know for sure is if I go see the film. I love movies and they help to get one inside and out of the heat, so that's enjoyable.

 

Once again, thank you for the bump and bringing this to my attention.

[saangels]

Yeah, thanks Lawrence.  I might buy a couple of tickets myself.  Looks like it has the makings for a good flick.  All the in-depth, behind the scenes information of a Michael Moore documentary, without the annoying persona of Michael Moore to muddle the underlying message.

Edited October 2, 2013 by saangels

[Lhalo]

Good post!

 

Thank you for bumping this thread and making me aware of this film.

 

I'll definitely buy two or four tickets. I don't know if I agree with him or not and the only way to know for sure is if I go see the film. I love movies and they help to get one inside and out of the heat, so that's enjoyable.

 

Once again, thank you for the bump and bringing this to my attention.

 

You're quite welcome! Enjoy the show!

 

Be sure to tell me how Reich explains that QE is working. I'd love to know!

[Lhalo]

Yeah, thanks Lawrence.  I might buy a couple of tickets myself.  Looks like it has the makings for a good flick.  All the in-depth, behind the scenes information of a Michael Moore documentary without the annoying persona of Michael Moore to diffuse the underlying message.  

 

You're welcome too! Enjoy the date with Rally.

[saangels]

The guy is arguing in favor of worker wages--not welfare checks.  Nobody can deny that inflation is out of control.  I bought a used book online that was priced new at $12 in 2001; the same book is now $21 in stores.  Magazines are going for $10 now-a-days; ten years ago they were $5.99.  Minimum wage--and wages in general--have not kept up with inflation.  In the richest country in the world, there is no excuse for so many working families to be mired in poverty.  Again, I'm not making excuses for homeless people here.  That's a completely separate issue.  I just don't understand how so many Americans can be so fervently opposed to the idea of increasing the general welfare of the masses.  Just because somebody is pro-labor rights doesn't necessarily mean that they adhere to a communist economic philosophy.  

 

I must admit that I am ignorant when it comes to Robert Reich.  I had never heard of him until today.  Maybe you guys know something that I don't.  But based on the video, I can't find anything wrong with what he said.  

Edited October 2, 2013 by saangels

[mtangelsfan]

I just don't agree with the notion that private companies should be forced to pay what the government tells them to.  If I own a business, it should be my right to pay what I want.

[Adam]

Poverty in America = Limited Data for your smart phone plan and only one of HBO or Showtime

[Adam]

I just don't agree with the notion that private companies should be forced to pay what the government tells them to.  If I own a business, it should be my right to pay what I want.

 

Two parties with the ability to agree or disagree to terms for trade? Heresy!

[mrwicked]

Poverty in America = Limited Data for your smart phone plan and only one of HBO or Showtime

 

and this chateau leblanq '68.... 

its supposed to be served slightly chilled

this is room temperature.

what are we.. animals?!

[RallyMo]

You're quite welcome! Enjoy the show!

 

Be sure to tell me how Reich explains that QE is working. I'd love to know!

 

Thank you, but I'm not doing your legwork. You seem very interested in the film, so you might as well go see it for yourself. Perhaps you'd like to be chaperone for Chad and I?

 

You're welcome too! Enjoy the date with Rally.

 

If we hit it off and things work out, you can definitely be best man at the wedding.

[RallyMo]

The guy is arguing in favor of worker wages--not welfare checks.  Nobody can deny that inflation is out of control.  I bought a used book online that was priced new at $12 in 2001; the same book is now $21 in stores.  Magazines are going for $10 now-a-days; ten years ago they were $5.99.  Minimum wage--and wages in general--have not kept up with inflation.  In the richest country in the world, there is no excuse for so many working families to be mired in poverty.  Again, I'm not making excuses for homeless people here.  That's a completely separate issue.  I just don't understand how so many Americans can be so fervently opposed to the idea of increasing the general welfare of the masses.  Just because somebody is pro-labor rights doesn't necessarily mean that they adhere to a communist economic philosophy.  

 

I must admit that I am ignorant when it comes to Robert Reich.  I had never heard of him until today.  Maybe you guys know something that I don't.  But based on the video, I can't find anything wrong with what he said.  

 

If we ever hand out an award for "Greatest Change In Board Posting Style: Past Decade," Chad wins in a landslide.

Edited October 3, 2013 by RallyMo

[shellback]

reich is the chair of a department at uc berkely (i think international studies, he was also clinton's secretary of labor) and his thesis in the film is:

the answer to our problems is to get money out of the political system ( good luck with that!)

Edited October 3, 2013 by shellback

[Brandon]

Chad is learning about economic collapses, bubbles bursting, and the effects on society.

It's cyclical and when interests rate are consistently low the blow back is inflation on the comeback. The economy is slowly rebounding after the second worst economic climate since the great depression. in five to 10 years, being optimistic, pro-labor will be moot when everyone is making money again and working.

[shellback]

reich's pretty smart. not that i agree with his ideas, but the movie would be worth watching.

i watched an interview with reich and the movie's producer on bill moyers journal.

the producer was saying the reason he made it was because he couldn't understand why he and so many of his peers were barely scraping by when they had advanced degrees and were otherwize well prepared to to succeed.

[saangels]

mtangelfan and Adam, I understand where you guys are coming from.  In a perfect world, where greed does not exist, and where there is no such thing as a surplus population to drive down the cost of labor, there would be no need for a government imposed minimum wage.  But if you look at Belgium, the U.K., Chile, or any other unregulated capitalist economy, the results speak for themselves: the workers have no say in the matter.  They either take the bare minimum, or they starve to death.   

 

Again, I respect where you guys are coming from, but the respect is the same respect that I feel for Plato, in the sense that your points of view make perfect sense within the framework of a rational, idealized society.  The problem is that we do not live in a perfect, rational, idealized society.  We live in a swarming contradiction of values.  

 

I attribute this to human nature and, moreover, in our specific case, to the degeneration of common sense brought on by the polarization of our two political parties.  You can either be a democrat or a republican.  Each party represents a set of values; but when inspected from up close these values are laced with contradictions. For example, since we are talking about politics and labor rights: republicans are anti-immigration and pro-business; democrats identify themselves as pro-labor and pro-immigration.  How is that possible? If anything, the pro-business republicans should be welcoming the immigrants by the droves to drive down the price of labor, while the democrats should be the ones wanting to erect the walls along the border.  

Edited October 4, 2013 by saangels

[mtangelsfan]

I would make the same argument regarding government Chad.  Government as an ideal is great, but as you have stated, human nature says that government ends up being corrupt and greed still stays in play because people use their power and money to influence those in power and those in power act to keep the money and power they have.

 

If I am going to be choosing how to be affected by human nature, I will choose the way of freedom from government control

[saangels]

You're absolutely right, mtangelsfan.  I worry that, because I am pro-labor rights and pro-minimum wage, people will deduce that, by default, I must be pro-government.  I am not.  I can't stand our government.  If anything, I am pro-checks and balances.  I don't believe that a full-time, hard working employee deserves to struggle uninsured, earning below the poverty line, in the richest country in the world.  And I fear that, based on my knowledge of history and human nature, that without a minimum wage, not only would he continue to struggle, it would get worse.  I could be wrong.  But again, look at England in the 1830s.  That is your prototype.  

[mrwicked]

saangels love him some commas.

rock on though man, agreed the gov't is a clusterf*ck.

one can either bitch and moan about how the game is rigged, or you learn how to play the game and win big.

then when you do make sure to help others who are less fortunate.

 

on the minimum wage front - switzerland doesnt have a minimum wage and they are very stable.

but they are considering a minimum salary (much like canada tested a while back with the "minicome.")

neat stuff.  

their government process is very cool.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/04/us-swiss-pay-idUSBRE9930O620131004

Edited October 4, 2013 by mrwicked

[saangels]

saangels love him some commas.

rock on though man, agreed the gov't is a clusterf*ck.

one can either bitch and moan about how the game is rigged, or you learn how to play the game and win big.

then when you do make sure to help others who are less fortunate.

 

on the minimum wage front - switzerland doesnt have a minimum wage and they are very stable.

but they are considering a minimum salary (much like canada tested a while back with the "minicome.")

neat stuff.  

their government process is very cool.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/04/us-swiss-pay-idUSBRE9930O620131004

Very interesting.  They don't have a minimum wage, but you could argue that they are the epitome of a welfare state, if they are planning to hand out a 2,500 franc basic income for every adult, employed or not.  Isn't that essentially a minimum wage for doing nothing?  I'm not sure I like that, but some of the other proposals they are making are intriguing, e.g., the 1:12 initiative, making public employees shareholders, etc.  

Edited October 4, 2013 by saangels

[Adam]

You're absolutely right, mtangelsfan.  I worry that, because I am pro-labor rights and pro-minimum wage, people will deduce that, by default, I must be pro-government.  I am not.  I can't stand our government.  If anything, I am pro-checks and balances.  I don't believe that a full-time, hard working employee deserves to struggle uninsured, earning below the poverty line, in the richest country in the world.  And I fear that, based on my knowledge of history and human nature, that without a minimum wage, not only would he continue to struggle, it would get worse.  I could be wrong.  But again, look at England in the 1830s.  That is your prototype.  

 

This is a fine position. The lives of the masses are so intertwined with government as we know it, I don't think the average person would be capable of assessing their potential value as an employee. I think (too) many people lack even basic ambition for their lives and my guess is an extreme number of laborers would allow themselves, and consequently, everyone else to be taken advantage of. For freedom to truly work, the vast majority of individuals need to understand at a minimum, the basic value a worker brings to a business. Good luck with that.

 

Probably the biggest reason athletes hold out, demand so much money, hire guys like Boras, etc. is the pressure they receive from the players' unions. Imagine that on a macro-level. 

 

So I agree. Under 2013 conditions, it wouldn't work. It would probably result in a disaster. That doesn't mean it isn't the ideal way of doing things.

 

I usually agree with wicked in these conversations. We're still in an economy, where if you work harder than the guy next to you, add new skills and live with conviction and determination, you will likely be successful and enjoy a good life.