Not About MLB revising Top 100 & Angel Top 20

[Toby Ziegler]

On the contrary, from a specific tools standpoint, Grichuk and Cron both posses more power than your brother.  In terms of in game production, your brother is up there with both of them though.  But we must understand that a scouts job isn't to measure statistical performance, but to observe physical tools and intangibles if at all possible.  I think the reason why scouts were more impressed by Grichuk and Cron is the simple fact that Grichuk has strength and power to go with projectability.  He was only 20 in the Cal League.  At 23, your brother is viewed as more of a finished product because as unfair as it seems, to put Grichuk in the Cal League at age 23 simply wouldn't be fair for the competition.  As for Cron, every scout drools over him because of his build and power.  When a tool is that latent, people take notice.  In your brother, it takes a bit more effort to find because they not only have to watch him in BP and during the game, but have to see him more than a couple of times to really appreciate the package he brings to the table.  

 

I can totally understand wanting to see Zach get a better shot somewhere else.  No matter how talented he is, when you play the same positions as Mike Trout, Peter Bourjos, Josh Hamilton, Mark Trumbo, Kole Calhoun, Randal Grichuk and Travis Witherspoon, a lot has to happen to get playing time.  I do believe your brother will be a major leaguers someday, and from a depth standpoint you should be very welcoming of a trade.  But just know that other organizations won't be run with any more considerable "class" than the Angels.  

 

I don't really see how you can say they have more power than him. As you said, he hits for more power in games. He also hits rockets and has light tower power in BP and in games.

 

Grichuk is only a year younger than Zach, almost a year exactly. I don't see how his projectability is so much more awe-inspiring. And for the record Zach was 22 for the entire season, up until a few days ago.

 

Cron has more fat than muscle from what I've seen. His build isn't all that impressive. Zach, on the other hand, is a gym rat and has a great physique. He's kind of a freak of nature. I believe scouts saw what they wanted to see in Zach. He played in the Midwest for a small college in a conference that isn't a big name. There is most certainly regional bias when it comes to scouting.

 

Do not misunderstand me. I'm not saying the Angels organization doesn't have class. But from my perspective and from my family's perspective, they haven't gone out of their way to give Zach his due, and his opportunities for real advancement appear to be limited. That's where I'm coming from.

 

There is a better situation out there for him, that much I'm sure of. 

[Tyler]

That damn social media.

[stevestevens]

Do not misunderstand me. I'm not saying the Angels organization doesn't have class. But from my perspective and from my family's perspective, they haven't gone out of their way to give Zach his due, and his opportunities for real advancement appear to be limited. That's where I'm coming from.

How is his advancement limited? He has advanced every year. The year is not over yet either so he very well still could make a jump. Just relax man. If Cowgill and Shuck made the big leagues this year then I don't see how his advancement seems limited. We are talking about two guys with significant playing time that in no have cemented a spot next year.

And yes the way you are talking makes it sound like the organization has no class. Playing fat guys in front of your brother, trainers who should force players to stretch, trying to get your brother traded. It comes across as either the organization is classless or you are a whiner.

[Broad Street]

His loyalty to his brother is awesome. The way he goes about it here is not. If I had a brother that was worth a damn, and not in and out of prison, I wouldn't be complaining that he hasn't been promoted yet. I'd just be happy he was there. That's just me though.

[TroutField]

Is this dude being serious? What kind of person goes all over the Internet to say that the Angels organization and every scout is stupid because their brother, who is a decent prospect isn't the best prospect in baseball? You just sound stupid.

He's 23, which is kind of old for the Cal League and was a 23rd round pick. I've seen him play in person and nothing really jumped out at me. Just another hacker with decent power. I can't stop laughing at you calling around to get him traded. Honestly, how can you be this dumb?

[Toby Ziegler]

Is this dude being serious? What kind of person goes all over the Internet to say that the Angels organization and every scout is stupid because their brother, who is a decent prospect isn't the best prospect in baseball? You just sound stupid.

He's 23, which is kind of old for the Cal League and was a 23rd round pick. I've seen him play in person and nothing really jumped out at me. Just another hacker with decent power. I can't stop laughing at you calling around to get him traded. Honestly, how can you be this dumb?

 

Because I definitely said that verbatim, and you're not exaggerating or putting words in my mouth at all...

 

The only stupid people are people who resort to ad hominem or strawman because they can't actually form a real argument.

 

Love you Halos fans. I can really feel the love here. And the trade deadline isn't over yet...

[Angel Oracle]

He was just drafted a little over 2 years ago.    For being in a small school environment, he has done well to already be AA ready.

Hopefully wherever he plays in 2014, if he hits well the first half in AA, he's promoted to AAA with an eye towards MLB promotion by September 2014.   That isn't too far off.

[Tyler]

Because I definitely said that verbatim, and you're not exaggerating or putting words in my mouth at all...

 

The only stupid people are people who resort to ad hominem or strawman because they can't actually form a real argument.

 

Love you Halos fans. I can really feel the love here. And the trade deadline isn't over yet...

 

Where does he prefer to play?

[Toby Ziegler]

Where does he prefer to play?

 

All he really wants (and what minor leaguer doesn't want this?) is to be in an organization where he'll get an opportunity to play with the big club down the road. As it stands right now, the Angels don't look like that organization. Pujols isn't going anywhere. Hamilton isn't going anywhere. Trout really isn't going anywhere. Trumbo probably isn't going anywhere. Bourjos and Calhoun will get looks before Zach. It's a crowded outfield. It's a crowded roster.

 

And unless something drastically changes, I don't see how the Angels fit him into their plans. Sciosciapath also isn't known for grooming young players or giving them much of a leash. The organization seems to value a bunch of other guys ahead of him and so do a lot of you fans, something many of you have made abundantly and, in some cases, obnoxiously clear. When prospects having mediocre and even atrocious seasons are higher up on the totem pole, it's time to get out. No one wants to be in a place where he's not wanted.

 

Call me a whiner all you want. Call me stupid. Call me a jerk. I've kind of heard it all here. I'm just being a realist, and I'm only looking out for his best interests.

[Tyler]

This is the Angels, alot can and has drastically changed. Just need to have some patience. No other organization would be able to give him MLB time this year. He still needs to prove himself at AA, and it would be best for him to start in AA at the start of the year, or at least until he gets full health before moving up. Either way, Sept. callup '14 should be his ETA. Till then, one day at a time before jimmies get rustled.

[UCLAngel]

 The organization seems to value a bunch of other guys ahead of him and so do a lot of you fans, something many of you have made abundantly and, in some cases, obnoxiously clear. 

 

Here's the thing, it seems like a lot of the "obnoxious" comments you've received haven't really been regarding your brother's potential or performance, they've been responses to your approach.  

 

I only speak for myself, but I prefer a lot of the Inland Empire guys to a lot of the Arkansas guys, Zach included. But when you have someone calling you closed minded, you tend to get defensive and push back.  Sure, many on here will "rank" Zach behind other prospects.  The Angels organization, in many ways, is a Good Ole Boys club. They tend to show loyalty to guys that have been in the system longer or have been around the league longer. That doesn't mean Zach won't get a chance, it just means that he might not get a chance as quickly.  By constantly clamoring for a promotion and respect, it makes Zach appear entitled, which is about the worst thing you can be in baseball, a sport steeped in tradition.  

 

Here, I'll give you my own personal ranking of prospects up to Zach:  1) Sappington 2) Hunter Green 3) Rondon (I really like him) 4)Lindsey 5) Borenstein.  That's it for me. I've never been as high on Cron.  But the way you pine for him doesn't win over many fans. 

 

Your brother has had a great year. He deserves all the accolades he receives, and yeah, he has earned a call up that has been pushed back more than it probably should. He'll get his shot, though, and if he keeps producing he should take full advantage of it. 

 

Getting worked up over rankings should provide fodder for him.  The best always look for every reason to fuel their fire.  I used to love how Kobe knew every team that passed over him in the draft.  Instead of looking for Zach to move to every other organization that DIDN'T draft him, Zach should be looking for every reason to prove himself in the one that did.  I think you're attitude, as family, should be similar.  Gratitude instead of entitlement is so much more refreshing.  

 

I'll continue to root for your bro.  I hope he turns into an MLB All-Star for the Halos.  And I hope he uses his displeasure to continue to improve and prove all the doubters wrong. But I'm still convinced that you could go about your support in a better way.  Convince everyone to be believers, don't call them idiots because they're initially skeptical. 

[HaloMilliVanilli]

Well put, UCLAngel.

[halobob]

Why is it up to the trainer to "make" your brother stretch?  Can't he just do that on his own?

[Toby Ziegler]

7 straight hits for Zach, 8 consecutive times on base dating back to last game.

 

I think his time as a DH has benefited him. He told my dad he studied the opposing hitters when he was in the dugout. His plate discipline has improved a great deal since coming off the DL (10 BBs/10 Ks in 19 games - the 19th game is still going on as we speak) and he's doing much better against lefties.

 

Hitting .348 now. If only his hit tool were as good as Cron's...

[stevestevens]

Hitting .348 now. If only his hit tool were as good as Cron's...

 

I wish I could get excited for you as a brother, but then you show that your acting like a 5 year old, time and time again. 

 

Here is an idea, just post about the awesome year that your brother is having and forget about everyone else. 

[HaloMilliVanilli]

I was thinking the exact same thing, Tyler.  Really excited to have Borenstein in the system and I love seeing the updates regarding his progress.  Just wish there wasn't all the resentment mixed in.

[Second Base]

Indeed.  I don't like Cron better as a hitter because I have something against you or your brother, in fact I rather like him as a ball player. 

[Toby Ziegler]

You take the good with the bad, I guess. I'm not above being petty, especially when all I hear from scouts is how uninspiring my brother is as a prospect and when I hear from fans on this very forum that Cron and Grichuk are significantly better prospects than him with better tools, brighter futures, a clearer path to the Majors, more projectability, and all that other bullshit. Sorry if I get on your nerves. But you get on my nerves, too. And I don't believe in turning the other cheek.

[Tyler]

Well if he continues to play with a chip on his shoulder, then he'll make up the difference in lack of physicality and projectability. Borenstein may have never experienced the amateur attention that Cron or Grichuk received, but at least he got drafted and got a chance.

[Toby Ziegler]

Lack of physicality? I don't even know what to say to that, except that you've never seen him play.

 

He's made the most of the chances he's been given. Last year your organization sent him to Extended Spring Training and he missed the first half of the season for no good reason. Or maybe it was because they wanted to give Chevy Clarke another look-see and Zach was considered expendable.

 

When he arrived in Cedar Rapids (only after someone got hurt) and the coach saw how good he was he was like, "Where have you been?" He couldn't believe he didn't start the season with the team. The Angels haven't given him anything. He's had to earn it all.

[Tyler]

Isn't he maxed out weight wise on a 6'0 frame? For what it's worth, Grichuk spent 149 games at A+ and CJ 129 games. Borenstein has played 84, although he may not have much left to prove in that league.

[Tyler]

What current MLB player does he liken his style of play to?

[Toby Ziegler]

What current MLB player does he liken his style of play to?

 

Can't say for sure, but his favorite player has always been Jeter.

 

Since some of you seem to like the insight I have, I can also tell you that he recently watched game tape of himself playing last year in CR and was surprised at how different his swing looks now. That was how he perceived it, at any rate.

[FireThemAll]

I'm counting down the days until the internet I told you so comes from Toby when Borenstein makes it to the MLB. Going to be legendary

[Tyler]

I don't think anyone thinks Borenstein won't make the Majors. He's currently an Angels player and usually Angels fans like to see people in the organization thrive.