Not About MLB revising Top 100 & Angel Top 20

[John Smith]

Cowart remains in Top 100 on updated prospects list.Third baseman falls from 67th to 86th; Angels' system ranked 28th in 'prospect points'

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130726&content_id=54557612&vkey=news_ana&c_id=ana

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2013/

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2013/#list=ana

 

[Tyler]

MLB.com giving Cron love with putting him over board favorite Lindsey.

[Toby Ziegler]

lol at none of Borenstein's tools standing out. He has a ton of power. He has hit balls over 450 feet this year and last year. How many other prospects in your system have done that? Do scouts even watch these games? Ranked 15th is a joke. But I guess that's better than being left out of the top 50 like last year. Scouts are so bad it's not even funny.

 

Would love to see my brother get traded before the deadline to a competent organization that will actually give him opportunities.

 

Also just noticed that Snyder didn't even crack the top 20... Wow. As I said, this is a joke.

[Tyler]

He expected to get called up over Calhoun? What does this have to do with the Angels?

[Toby Ziegler]

He expected to get called up over Calhoun? What does this have to do with the Angels?

 

Dur, reading comprehension? I never said anything about Calhoun.

 

He's not 100% healthy, so he's been a DH since he came off the DL. Yet the Angels told him they wouldn't promote him to AA unless he played in the field. Very short-sighted on their part. Why can't he DH for the rest of the season in AA? He's better than Cron, Cowart, Lindsey, Grichuk, and Witherspoon.

[Tyler]

Bringing the goods.

[tdawg87]

lol at none of Borenstein's tools standing out. He has a ton of power. He has hit balls over 450 feet this year and last year. How many other prospects in your system have done that? Do scouts even watch these games? Ranked 15th is a joke. But I guess that's better than being left out of the top 50 like last year. Scouts are so bad it's not even funny.

 

Would love to see my brother get traded before the deadline to a competent organization that will actually give him opportunities.

 

Also just noticed that Snyder didn't even crack the top 20... Wow. As I said, this is a joke.

 

You are an annoying crybaby. Don't care who you are.

[Scott34]

I understand he is your brother and all, and I really do think he is a good player but let's not forget, he's 23 in a hitter's haven.

[Toby Ziegler]

You are an annoying crybaby. Don't care who you are.

 

What is this? The playground? Don't care who you are, either. Attack the argument, not the person.

 

 

 

 

I understand he is your brother and all, and I really do think he is a good player but let's not forget, he's 23 in a hitter's haven.

 

 

 

 

He just turned 23 a few days ago, which by the way is the league's average age if you look it up. And it's not his fault he's not in AA. That's on the organization. As I already said, the organization put him in a tough spot. He can only go to AA if he plays in the field, which he feels he's not ready to do yet.

 

He's 6+ months younger than Cron (since age is so important to you) and having a much better season than he had last year at Inland Empire. But Cron was drafted in the 1st round and given a huge signing bonus. Therefore, he is better. Whatever.

 

I'll tell you something else. Yarbrough is much better than Lindsey, and Synder is much better than Cron.

 

My brother, Yarbrough, Snyder, and Stamets should all be in AA right now. Actually, they should have been promoted weeks ago. Again, that's on the organization.

[Scott34]

Sorry, but you are not a talent evaluator.

[Toby Ziegler]

My opinion is just as valid as your average scout. Scouts get it wrong all of the time. They are hardly infallible, and neither are you.

 

Keith Law graded Chris Sale's slider as below average and thought he wouldn't amount to anything. He also thought Paul Goldschmidt (never a highly rated prospect) would be a bust. The examples of embarrassing evaluative failures go on and on and on...

 

Forums are supposed to be a place where ideas are exchanged, and people have an open mind. None of you seem to have an open mind.

 

Sorry if my opinions are so offensive. I'm not going to filter myself on a public forum. And I really haven't done anything wrong. But if you guys can't handle someone who offers a different perspective, I'm not really sure what you're playing at then.

[stevestevens]

While I am uncertain about your brother's baseball future, I think everyone on here can agree that you are the kind of brother everyone should have and deserves to have.

[Second Base]

MLB.com's evaluators aren't the greatest Toby, so don't be too offended. Your brother's power is definitely what I'd grade out as a "plus" tool. He's certainly athletic enough to stay in the OF. His plate discipline isn't great, but when everything you make contact with flies into gaps and over walls I'll give him a pass on not walking as often as he should.

As for his status as a prospect, Scott34 is correct in that Zach's a bit old for his current level and that he's hitting in an offensive wonderland. Inland Empire plays rather neutral, even pitching friendly at times, but when they go out on the road, even the most routine gap shots turn into HR's. This isn't to discount Zach's build and power, it's most certainly there, but the environment is also inflating what I'd consider his normal numbers to be.

When I've seen him play and from what I've heard from scouts within the organization, he's the type of player the system loves to sign/draft. The reason being, he's a gamer. He's got one tool that's good enough to possibly get him to the majors and the rest aren't weak enough to hold him back. There's more than meets the eye. Still, the fact that he's ranked 15th is actually relatively accurate and in some ways a bit generous.

As for the organization, they aren't perfect but your brother could do much worse than the Angels, trust me on that.

[Toby Ziegler]

MLB.com's evaluators aren't the greatest Toby, so don't be too offended. Your brother's power is definitely what I'd grade out as a "plus" tool. He's certainly athletic enough to stay in the OF. His plate discipline isn't great, but when everything you make contact with flies into gaps and over walls I'll give him a pass on not walking as often as he should.

As for his status as a prospect, Scott34 is correct in that Zach's a bit old for his current level and that he's hitting in an offensive wonderland. Inland Empire plays rather neutral, even pitching friendly at times, but when they go out on the road, even the most routine gap shots turn into HR's. This isn't to discount Zach's build and power, it's most certainly there, but the environment is also inflating what I'd consider his normal numbers to be.

When I've seen him play and from what I've heard from scouts within the organization, he's the type of player the system loves to sign/draft. The reason being, he's a gamer. He's got one tool that's good enough to possibly get him to the majors and the rest aren't weak enough to hold him back. There's more than meets the eye. Still, the fact that he's ranked 15th is actually relatively accurate and in some ways a bit generous.

As for the organization, they aren't perfect but your brother could do much worse than the Angels, trust me on that.

 

Did the Cal League's hitting environment also inflate Grichuk and Cron's power numbers? Can't have it both ways. For reference, Zach has actually done quite well at San Manuel Stadium, which as you say is not a hitter's park. Cron was awful there last year and if you're going to criticize Zach's plate discipline, what about Grichuk and Cron, who are hackers?

 

You're right about the offensive environment. I was at High Desert. Crazy how the ball carries there and how windy it gets. But Zach doesn't normally hit wall-scrapers or wind-aided HRs, either.

 

As far as him being ranked 15th being on the generous side... well, we'll just have to vehemently agree to disagree on that one.

 

I'll be honest. I wouldn't mind seeing him traded before the deadline. As a matter of fact, I've already made some inquiries...

 

The Angels haven't exactly given him a huge vote of confidence. From sending him to extended Spring Training at the start of last season where he wasted away to keeping him down in Advanced-A for no good reason. Not to mention the fact that Inland Empire's trainer doesn't make any of the players stretch and they didn't give him an MRI after he strained his hip flexor. Had he been stretching, the injury could have been avoided in the first place. A trainer's job is to both treat and prevent injuries. Stretching obviously helps to prevent injuries. I ask you: What competent trainer doesn't make his players stretch?

 

The Angels are stuck with the albatross contracts of Pujols and Hamilton and their precipitous decline. As it stands right now, I don't see how the Angels will make room for Zach with Trumbo, Bourjos, and Calhoun also in the mix. It goes without saying that Trout isn't going anywhere.

 

Yes, I wouldn't mind at all if he were traded.

[stevestevens]

I'll be honest. I wouldn't mind seeing him traded before the deadline. As a matter of fact, I've already made some inquiries...

 

 

So are you his agent too?.....usually guys don't get traded from a team who is selling. 

[Toby Ziegler]

So are you his agent too?.....usually guys don't get traded from a team who is selling. 

 

Not his agent. Doesn't mean I can't be proactive. The Angels need SP pretty bad. I would think Zach and others could bring in some quality pitching.

[stevestevens]

Not to mention the fact that Inland Empire's trainer doesn't make any of the players stretch and they didn't give him an MRI after he strained his hip flexor. Had he been stretching, the injury could have been avoided in the first place. A trainer's job is to both treat and prevent injuries. Stretching obviously helps to prevent injuries. I ask you: What competent trainer doesn't make his players stretch?

 

I play golf about once a week, softball when my friends need a player because I do not want to commit full time, go to the gym three times a week, and mess around with basketball in the winter. I do all those activities in a very casual non competitive manner and I always stretch before each activity.  I don't need someone to tell me to stretch.   Sure the trainer might suck but stretching should be an obvious component to any regime of a professional athlete. 

[stevestevens]

Not his agent. Doesn't mean I can't be proactive. The Angels need SP pretty bad. I would think Zach and others could bring in some quality pitching.

 

Is Dipoto keen on the back door deals that you are laying the ground work for?

[Toby Ziegler]

I play golf about once a week, softball when my friends need a player because I do not want to commit full time, go to the gym three times a week, and mess around with basketball in the winter. I do all those activities in a very casual non competitive manner and I always stretch before each activity.  I don't need someone to tell me to stretch.   Sure the trainer might suck but stretching should be an obvious component to any regime of a professional athlete. 

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly; Zach should have been stretching on his own. Just common sense. Still doesn't excuse the trainer for his negligence, though. Treating and preventing injuries - that is his job. And I'll reiterate: What trainer doesn't make his players stretch? 

[Toby Ziegler]

Is Dipoto keen on the back door deals that you are laying the ground work for?

 

I'm only making suggestions. Nothing else. Dipoto can do what he likes.

[stevestevens]

I agree with you wholeheartedly; Zach should have been stretching on his own. Just common sense. Still doesn't excuse the trainer for his negligence, though. Treating and preventing injuries - that is his job. And I'll reiterate: What trainer doesn't make his players stretch? 

 

A sucky one who is in high A ball.

[stevestevens]

I agree with you wholeheartedly; Zach should have been stretching on his own. Just common sense. Still doesn't excuse the trainer for his negligence, though. Treating and preventing injuries - that is his job. And I'll reiterate: What trainer doesn't make his players stretch? 

 

Hopefully your brother also learned that he needs to treat his body properly and not put it 100% in the hands of someone else.  His body is his livelihood and he needs to treat it as such despite how a trainer may fall short in his duties or a player may tell him to put something in his body.  In the end what happens with your brothers body is on him. 

 

I hope he recovers.  It would be fun to see him progress.  I for one am not sold on Cron or really too many of the bats in our system besides Jose Rondon.  I know Rondon is young but from what I have seen in person of him, he seems like a keeper.  We need some guys to step up. 

[UCLAngel]

I'm only making suggestions. Nothing else. Dipoto can do what he likes.

 

Man. You are a piece of work.  In one breath, you call everyone on here closed minded. In the next, you claim you're opinion is above that of the collective intelligence of hundreds of major league scouts.  Sure. Your blinding biased is intense that you're hard to take serious.

 

In some ways, it's like a 3rd grader claiming "my Dad can beat up yours." You clearly have the ability to make reasoned arguments, but you are so emotional that your points are completely discounted. 

 

I'm sure you've "called around." hah. I actually laughed out loud. I'll bet you've got a few GMs on speed dial.  See if the Angels can get Bundy or Zimmer for your brother.  With your passion, I'm sure you can convince them that that's a fair trade. 

 

And I'm not sure I'd want you for a brother.  I love my brothers and root for them, counsel them when they ask for advice, and expect them to put in the work to succeed.  If I ever started going on public message boards berating anyone who didn't think they were the greatest thing since sliced bread, I'm sure they'd tell me to keep my mouth shut and let me prove myself.  You should your brother do the same and quit arguing with a bunch of message board fans. 

 

The Angels org must truly hate your brother...good luck on trying to move him to the other orgs that were clearly climbing over each other to draft him...in the 20th round. The big boy world can be a tough place. I suggest you thicken that skin up. 

[Second Base]

On the contrary, from a specific tools standpoint, Grichuk and Cron both posses more power than your brother.  In terms of in game production, your brother is up there with both of them though.  But we must understand that a scouts job isn't to measure statistical performance, but to observe physical tools and intangibles if at all possible.  I think the reason why scouts were more impressed by Grichuk and Cron is the simple fact that Grichuk has strength and power to go with projectability.  He was only 20 in the Cal League.  At 23, your brother is viewed as more of a finished product because as unfair as it seems, to put Grichuk in the Cal League at age 23 simply wouldn't be fair for the competition.  As for Cron, every scout drools over him because of his build and power.  When a tool is that latent, people take notice.  In your brother, it takes a bit more effort to find because they not only have to watch him in BP and during the game, but have to see him more than a couple of times to really appreciate the package he brings to the table.  

 

I can totally understand wanting to see Zach get a better shot somewhere else.  No matter how talented he is, when you play the same positions as Mike Trout, Peter Bourjos, Josh Hamilton, Mark Trumbo, Kole Calhoun, Randal Grichuk and Travis Witherspoon, a lot has to happen to get playing time.  I do believe your brother will be a major leaguers someday, and from a depth standpoint you should be very welcoming of a trade.  But just know that other organizations won't be run with any more considerable "class" than the Angels.  

[Toby Ziegler]

Man. You are a piece of work.  In one breath, you call everyone on here closed minded. In the next, you claim you're opinion is above that of the collective intelligence of hundreds of major league scouts.  Sure. Your blinding biased is intense that you're hard to take serious.

 

In some ways, it's like a 3rd grader claiming "my Dad can beat up yours." You clearly have the ability to make reasoned arguments, but you are so emotional that your points are completely discounted. 

 

I'm sure you've "called around." hah. I actually laughed out loud. I'll bet you've got a few GMs on speed dial.  See if the Angels can get Bundy or Zimmer for your brother.  With your passion, I'm sure you can convince them that that's a fair trade. 

 

And I'm not sure I'd want you for a brother.  I love my brothers and root for them, counsel them when they ask for advice, and expect them to put in the work to succeed.  If I ever started going on public message boards berating anyone who didn't think they were the greatest thing since sliced bread, I'm sure they'd tell me to keep my mouth shut and let me prove myself.  You should your brother do the same and quit arguing with a bunch of message board fans. 

 

The Angels org must truly hate your brother...good luck on trying to move him to the other orgs that were clearly climbing over each other to draft him...in the 20th round. The big boy world can be a tough place. I suggest you thicken that skin up. 

 

Love the condescension...

 

Scouts are not the be-all and end-all. That should be abundantly clear to anyone who follows the game closely. Perhaps I dismiss them too easily, but you give them far too much credit. Scouts have and will continue to make monumental mistakes. They get it right a lot of the time, too. But they also miss quite a few things. It's about as hit and miss as any line of work.

 

I don't deny my bias. I also don't think that necessarily undermines anything I said. My arguments are impassioned, but they're also completely reasonable.

 

I never said I "called around." I don't have any GMs on speed dial. But I did make inquiries. Whether or not those inquiries are taken into consideration is out of my control.

 

If there's one thing I've learned it's that people need advocates. If no one else is willing to go to bat for my brother, I'll gladly do it. Clearly, most of you could care less. And that's fine. You've got your own lives to worry about. Your own families. To demean someone for only wanting what is best for his family is crazy.

 

The fact that he was drafted in the 23rd round only serves to illustrate my point about scouts. Thanks for bringing that up. Again, go ahead and demean me and him. I really don't care. For you and your ridiculous tone. I suggest you go f*** yourself.