Angels AGM is Gone

[BTH]

I hope some Angels reporter can get more info on this and provide some context, because this is confusing at the surface.

[khouse]

1 hour ago, T.G. said:

I knew you'd eventually come around!

Next... you're going to go back to using Netscape instead of your current browser!

Or AOL...

[Jay]

8 minutes ago, khouse said:

Or AOL...

Personally I prefer Telix.

[greginpsca]

2 hours ago, BTH said:

 

If Arte is forcing out Perry’s guys and Perry doesn't like, Perry should quit now.

If I’m looking to hire Minasian in the future, I respect him more if he stepped down when he was impeded than if he rode it out while the owner was tearing things apart.

He has a year remaining on his contract. If he quits, he loses that money. If he is fired, he gets the money. Would not be surprised if he is putting out feelers, hoping to find another landing spot.

[HanfordGuy]

4 hours ago, BTH said:

I hope some Angels reporter can get more info on this and provide some context, because this is confusing at the surface.

As Assistant GM of the Angels, and thus Assistant Manager of the Del Taco on Katella, Tamin failed to clock out within 10 minutes of his shift ending 3 times. “Arte” runs a tight ship with no unauthorized overtime.

[wopphil]

9 hours ago, T.G. said:

I got the impression a lot of people here like the Tamin hire.  What are their thoughts now?  This might be more significant than letting Nevin walk.

A friend of mine is connected to the organization and he has been complaining about Tamin for months. Sounds like a number of people in the organization blame Tamin for the poor pitching this year.

[BTH]

13 minutes ago, wopphil said:

A friend of mine is connected to the organization and he has been complaining about Tamin for months. Sounds like a number of people in the organization blame Tamin for the poor pitching this year.

That’s interesting, thanks for sharing that insight!

I know Joe Maddon wasn’t a fan of Tamin, but I didn’t know if that was just Joe or if others had issues with him.

[Swordsman78]

49 minutes ago, wopphil said:

A friend of mine is connected to the organization and he has been complaining about Tamin for months. Sounds like a number of people in the organization blame Tamin for the poor pitching this year.

So basically it's apparent that Arte realizes that Perry, Tamin and their analytics driven decisions  f*cked everything up this past season.  

[Blarg]

Perry is still there. Nevin isn't.

[Angelsfan1984]

3 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

So basically it's apparent that Arte realizes that Perry, Tamin and their analytics driven decisions  f*cked everything up this past season.  

Perry prepares dinner. Nevin is the one who decided to shit in the spaghetti.

[BTH]

4 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

So basically it's apparent that Arte realizes that Perry, Tamin and their analytics driven decisions  f*cked everything up this past season.  

If so, why didn’t he fire Perry?

[Docwaukee]

I feel like a big part of the reason Perry still has his job is the sheer lack of continuity there has been at the GM position.  Instead, they're probably going to take away some of of his authority.  The hierarchy of this team has never been overly clear.

I think for successful teams you know with certainty who creates the mission plan for everyone else to execute. 

It just doesn't feel like there's been a clear path since Stoneman left.  Which essentially means that ownership/management hasn't been successful in picking anyone who's clearly in charge of manning the ship. 

I still think it boils down to all of the GM's and managers under Arte's watch being tasked with the impossible.  Or at least the highly improbable. 

Inherited wealth made them successful for awhile but the method is flawed.  It's really worked once (2014) in the last 14 seasons.  It's not really a low point any more but a trough.  Even during some lean times there was at least some ebb and flow where there's be a couple really bad seasons and then show at least a modicum of improvement even if for a short period. 

  

[Docwaukee]

22 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

So basically it's apparent that Arte realizes that Perry, Tamin and their analytics driven decisions  f*cked everything up this past season.  

Except for the stuff the team's manager did that resulted in him not keeping his job.  

[Tank]

8 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Joe Carter -- 16 years, 396 HRs, 1445 RBI, 771 OPS (105 OPS+) 19.5 bWAR, 17.1 fWAR
Gary Pettis -  11 years, 21 HRs, 259 RBI, .642 OPS (80 OPS+), 22.1 bWAR, 17.8 fWAR

[tdawg87]

I think Perry had the right idea last offseason. And the team was competitive for awhile, but the injuries just derailed everything and then the pitching dumped a truckload of oil and lit a match. 

The trade deadline acquisitions all fucking sucked, and part of me wants to think Arte pressured Perry to "go all in", but I'm not letting Minasian off the hook that easy. 

This offseason is going to be very telling. 

[Tank]

11 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I feel like a big part of the reason Perry still has his job is the sheer lack of continuity there has been at the GM position.  Instead, they're probably going to take away some of of his authority.  The hierarchy of this team has never been overly clear.

I think for successful teams you know with certainty who creates the mission plan for everyone else to execute. 

It just doesn't feel like there's been a clear path since Stoneman left.  Which essentially means that ownership/management hasn't been successful in picking anyone who's clearly in charge of manning the ship. 

I still think it boils down to all of the GM's and managers under Arte's watch being tasked with the impossible.  Or at least the highly improbable. 

Inherited wealth made them successful for awhile but the method is flawed.  It's really worked once (2014) in the last 14 seasons.  It's not really a low point any more but a trough.  Even during some lean times there was at least some ebb and flow where there's be a couple really bad seasons and then show at least a modicum of improvement even if for a short period. 

  

Kamala Minassian

[BTH]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

and part of me wants to think Arte pressured Perry to "go all in", but I'm not letting Minasian off the hook that easy. 

I think it’s pretty clear that Arte pushed Perry to go all in. It’s never been in Arte’s MO to sell off pieces.

Where you can fault Perry is that his acquisitions weren’t good. I doubt Arte was in there pounding the table specifically for Giolito, Grichuk, Escobar, Cron, etc.

[BTH]

13 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I feel like a big part of the reason Perry still has his job is the sheer lack of continuity there has been at the GM position. 

Perhaps, but is it gonna be any better to keep him for another year and hire a new GM in the 2024 offseason?

If Perry isn’t the guy, you should cut him now. Candidates aren’t gonna go from not wanting the job now to wanting it a year from now because Arte gave Perry another year.

If anything, the job is less desirable a year from now because a new manager will already be in place and the new GM wouldn’t be able to pick their own manager.

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I think Perry had the right idea last offseason. And the team was competitive for awhile, but the injuries just derailed everything and then the pitching dumped a truckload of oil and lit a match. 

The trade deadline acquisitions all fucking sucked, and part of me wants to think Arte pressured Perry to "go all in", but I'm not letting Minasian off the hook that easy. 

This offseason is going to be very telling. 

I wish I could say the same but I think it's going to be business as usual.   A few guys in.  A few guys out.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  Fix the major league club as quickly as  possible is in full force to the point that they've even found a way to use the draft to fit the model.  

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I wish I could say the same but I think it's going to be business as usual.   A few guys in.  A few guys out.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  Fix the major league club as quickly as  possible is in full force to the point that they've even found a way to use the draft to fit the model.  

Well my hope is that Arte will allow his baseball people to "fix" the team, rather than throwing 250 million at Snell.

[Angels 1961]

38 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Perry prepares dinner. Nevin is the one who decided to shit in the spaghetti.

I was going to make pasta on Saturday now I have to dump that plan.

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, BTH said:

Perhaps, but is it gonna be any better to keep him for another year and hire a new GM in the 2024 offseason?

If Perry isn’t the guy, you should cut him now. Candidates aren’t gonna go from not wanting the job now to wanting it a year from now because Arte gave Perry another year.

If anything, the job is less desirable a year from now because a new manager will already be in place and the new GM wouldn’t be able to pick their own manager.

the reason the job isn't desirable isn't because the team is bad.  It's because the Angels are unwilling to hand over the keys and give that one person the autonomy to do what the feel needs to be done no matter what that is.  

All the playoff teams have done variations of something similar to get where they are.   The Angels are doing some that even though it's still the cliff's notes version.  

The only way the job becomes more desirable is autonomy.  It's really what any GM worth their salt would want.  

[Docwaukee]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Well my hope is that Arte will allow his baseball people to "fix" the team, rather than throwing 250 million at Snell.

the entire industry knows otherwise even if those are the words out of Arte's mouth.  They basically put spies in the dugout at the end of the season.  Do you think Finley and Salmon were Perry's choice to do that?  

Minasian has been neutered.  He got Tamin and extra payroll for a year and it was a hot mess.  

And that's the thing.  A couple of mistakes and the whole strategy falls apart yet it's what every GM is tasked with for this org.  Zero margin for error followed by getting your nuts clipped.  

[Angel Oracle]

[Inside Pitch]

9 hours ago, Tank said:

Bad defense, didn't walk (.306 OBP) , just a lot of empty numbers due to huge number of at bats and men on base.