AngelsWin Podcast - Episode 20

[Chuck]

Episode 20 finds the guys welcoming in Week 1 of the NFL season!  But in addition to a quick discussion about how their favorite football teams look going into the season, there’s lots of Angels baseball to talk about.  They discuss: Nez Balelo’s, Shohei Ohtani’s agent, press conference (all is well?), Bob Nightingale's Mike Trout story, Rengifo is the latest to join the Angels’ IL, Seattle pitcher George Kirby’s comments on being left in the game too long brings some heat from former players, what should the Angels look to do in 2024 and much more.  Finally, Geoff wraps things up with a funny story about whether he’s ever listened to Vitor Rojas’ podcast.

 

[Swordsman78]

Good points made about Perry being on the last year of his contract.   Can't have the GM and manager be in "Limbo", and expect other free agents to "commit" to an organization that isn't committing to the GM and manager.

At the very least Perry should either be extended or replaced now.  I would prefer that he is extended for another 3 years.   (Same with Nevin).

Once Perry has a 3 yr commitment, he can focus more long term regarding turning the franchise around.  A legit goal would be to make the playoffs within 3 years.   Then reevaluate Perry after 3 years.

[Chuck]

All of our NFL teams lost (Broncos, Seahawks and Chiefs). 

[jsnpritchett]

1 hour ago, Swordsman78 said:

Good points made about Perry being on the last year of his contract.   Can't have the GM and manager be in "Limbo", and expect other free agents to "commit" to an organization that isn't committing to the GM and manager.

At the very least Perry should either be extended or replaced now.  I would prefer that he is extended for another 3 years.   (Same with Nevin).

Once Perry has a 3 yr commitment, he can focus more long term regarding turning the franchise around.  A legit goal would be to make the playoffs within 3 years.   Then reevaluate Perry after 3 years.

Almost zero chance that they will extend Nevin for 3 years at this point.  Sorry, but that's simply wildly unrealistic--and I would think even less of the current upper management/ownership if they actually did extend him for that long. 

[Swordsman78]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Almost zero chance that they will extend Nevin for 3 years at this point.  Sorry, but that's simply wildly unrealistic--and I would think even less of the current upper management/ownership if they actually did extend him for that long. 

I guess we shall see.

I would think even less of upper management if they try and make Nevin the skape goat for the 2023 injury debacle.   The dude literally had them in playoff contention at the trade deadline, posting a line up that did not include, Trout, Rendon, Neto, O'Hoppe, Adell, Moore, Gio, Drury, etc.

[jsnpritchett]

14 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

I guess we shall see.

I would think even less of upper management if they try and make Nevin the skape goat for the 2023 injury debacle.   The dude literally had them in playoff contention at the trade deadline, posting a line up that did not include, Trout, Rendon, Neto, O'Hoppe, Adell, Moore, Gio, Drury, etc.

*scape

Even if you (general you, not you specifically) don't place any of the blame for this season on Nevin, on the flip side, I don't think he's done enough last year or this year to justify giving him a three-year extension.  At best, another one-year deal, I'd say.

[Swordsman78]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

*scape

Even if you (general you, not you specifically) don't place any of the blame for this season on Nevin, on the flip side, I don't think he's done enough last year or this year to justify giving him a three-year extension.  At best, another one-year deal, I'd say.

Point taken, but I don't think he has really be given a chance this year with all the injuries.  Last year he did a pretty good job coming into a terrible situation.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Swordsman78 said:

Point taken, but I don't think he has really be given a chance this year with all the injuries.  Last year he did a pretty good job coming into a terrible situation.

Again, based on what?  The team was 46-60 after he took over.  At some point, results matter, whether you interpret "results" as won/loss record, player development, etc.  I think it's very hard from the outside to pinpoint anything that Nevin has done to contribute to positive "results," other than some quotes and stories that have generally said players tend to "like" him.

[Swordsman78]

19 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Again, based on what?  The team was 46-60 after he took over.  At some point, results matter, whether you interpret "results" as won/loss record, player development, etc.  I think it's very hard from the outside to pinpoint anything that Nevin has done to contribute to positive "results," other than some quotes and stories that have generally said players tend to "like" him.

I say that based on the way the team competed day in and day out after Maddon was fired.   Last years line up after the #4 hitter was basically a AAA team.

People shouldn't be quoting records without acknowledging the quality of player options for the lineup card.

Bochy's record since Mid Aug is an example of a record in which there is no excuse for.

[jsnpritchett]

3 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

I say that based on the way the team competed day in and day out after Maddon was fired.   Last years line up after the #4 hitter was basically a AAA team.

People shouldn't be quoting records without acknowledging the quality of player options for the lineup card.

Bochy's record since Mid Aug is an example of a record in which there is no excuse for.

I'll continue to post records as I please, thank you very much.

And, honestly, if the Rangers end up missing the playoffs, it wouldn't surprise me if Bochy got the boot.

[Swordsman78]

9 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I'll continue to post records as I please, thank you very much.

And, honestly, if the Rangers end up missing the playoffs, it wouldn't surprise me if Bochy got the boot.

No one is asking you not to post records, why would you take it to that extreme.   You know what I was getting at.

Agreed that no one should stop you from using out of context data points to support an agenda against a particular person.   For example, You can also post that the NYC mayor on 9/12/01 is a POS because Manhattan is a total mess.  #Firethemayor.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Swordsman78 said:

No one is asking you not to post records, why would you take it to that extreme.   You know what I was getting at.

Agreed that no one should stop you from using out of context data points to support an agenda against a particular person.   For example, You can also post that the NYC mayor on 9/12/01 is a POS because Manhattan is a total mess.  #Firethemayor.

Probably one of the dumbest posts ever made on here, and that's saying a lot.

My point is that at some point, everyone (players, GMs, managers, etc.) needs to be held accountable for results.  If you want to say, "Well, the lineup was compromised," then, ok, what are we evaluating Nevin on?  Virtually all of the younger pitchers on the roster have taken steps back this year.  None of the position players have shown much progress, even when healthy.  "They play hard" is about as subjective as you can possibly get.

Again, if they want to throw him a bone and give him another one-year deal, fine, go for it.  But at some point, injuries, bad lineups, or whatever excuse/reason you want to put forward, he's got to prove in some form or fashion that he deserves to be a big league manager for something other than "most players generally seem to like playing for him".

[katie]

I left my very important thoughts on the comments section on YouTube. 

[Swordsman78]

4 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

  But at some point, injuries, bad lineups, or whatever excuse/reason you want to put forward, he's got to prove in some form or fashion that he deserves to be a big league manager for something other than "most players generally seem to like playing for him".

Agreed.  But imo  that "some point" is not yet.

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, Swordsman78 said:

Agreed.  But imo  that "some point" is not yet.

So you don't think he's done enough to prove his worth/be evaluated, but you DO think he's done enough to be given a THREE-YEAR extension.  Wonderful logic there.

[Swordsman78]

11 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

So you don't think he's done enough to prove his worth/be evaluated, but you DO think he's done enough to be given a THREE-YEAR extension.  Wonderful logic there.

Has Ray Montgomery done enough?  That was the forum favorite last year.   Who do you suggest (must be available) that they replace Nevin for ?  I guarantee you that said choice will also have knocks.

If Perry does not get extended, then I highly doubt any manager will get more than a 1 year deal.  

If Perry does get extended, then he should make a decision quickly on a manager.   If not Nevin, then Phil can go elsewhere and win his pennant.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Swordsman78

[jsnpritchett]

12 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Has Ray Montgomery done enough?  That was the forum favorite last year.   Who do you suggest (must be available) that they replace Nevin for ?  I guarantee you that said choice will also have knocks.

If Perry does not get extended, then I highly doubt any manager will get more than a 1 year deal.  

If Perry does get extended, then he should make a decision quickly on a manager.   If not Nevin, then Phil can go elsewhere and win his pennant.

Is that really an accurate summation?  My recollection is that there was some discussion about predicting a new manager during the period in which we all thought Arte was selling the team.  I'm pretty sure most of the discussion around Montgomery wasn't so much "he's 100% the right guy" as much as it was "If the team is sold and Perry is kept around, it wouldn't be a surprise if Montgomery got the manager gig". 

If it's not Nevin next year, I have no opinion on who it should be at this point in time.  Lots can change between now and the first few weeks of the off-season.  My point in this thread has consistently simply been that he hasn't shown enough to be extended on a long-term deal.

[CaliforniaYankee]

Its a tough call.  Replacing Nevin is something to consider, but as Swordsman78 mentioned, who do you replace him with?   Melvin or Bochy provided they are available?  Someone that was part of the team with some experience maybe Erstad ?  Bud Black I think would be great but he's not available.  I mean there are others, but there is no easy answer.

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by CaliforniaYankee

[Chuck]

39 minutes ago, katie said:

I left my very important thoughts on the comments section on YouTube. 

Responded. 

@Spirit, you need to do yours up like this next time. 

[katie]

39 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Responded. 

@Spirit, you need to do yours up like this next time. 

Yesssssssssss

[Blarg]

@Chuckster70, good call on the Old Fashioned as the pub or pre dinner drink. What do you prefer as the Bourbon of choice? 

[Spirit]

3 hours ago, katie said:

Yesssssssssss

 

I did the best I could with what I had in the house.  I'll do a better job planning ahead next time!

 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

@Spirit Nice Album covers Geoff !!!

Def Leopard - High and Dry

Tom Petty - Hard Promises

 

This is part of my excitement of the Podcast to see what you've got back there every week!

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

7 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

All of our NFL teams lost (Broncos, Seahawks and Chiefs). 

Go BUCS !!!

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

I Love Victor's insight. Which has aligned with much of what I've said here through the years. (And yes, numerous in here call me old man yelling at clouds). Which is funny but true.

All the way down to the Scouts and low level development guys. There needs to be educators at those levels of the "Angels Way".. I've scouted high school and college kids and you can tell who has worked on the mental side of the game and watch the game to work through situations.

Scouts need to be looking at everything from not only a tool and talent level. But, maybe you bring in some guys who are 2/3 or 4 tool players but they are gamers or understand the base level of the "Angels Way Mindset". They understand the game, they are strong on the mental side as that rubs off on a roster and other players.

This is why you saw them bring Salmon & Finley in. The kid pitchers are watching the game what are they actually watching and talking about. With the Analytics, Video, and watching the games. You should have a pretty good idea how to attack a hitter and even set them up to hit your pitch or chase your pitch through sequencing.

Ex. Of a kid I coached against. The White Sox were hot for him. Great player, great arm, power hitter..

 But, I knew his tell on how he setup for the pitches and were able to steal on him at will. The White Sox scout came up and said what do you know, what did you see?... He setup differently for a fastball and off speed. He ended up getting pissed off and got run on a called 3rd strike and lost it on the umpire in front of the White Sox. He went from 1st-3rd round to 22nd. He also was over aggressive with 2nd pitch. And would chase up. 1st pitch fastball down and in. 0-1... 2nd pitch get me over curve fouled 500 feet. 0-2.... Fastball up and in around his chest... by YOU! The Sox still drafted him but at a savings of approx 6-7M...

IF you've played the game, watched enough, players have their tells. Even the ones that try to bait you into a situation (for me it was pitch location).