You can't just blame the bullpen

[gurn67]

I know I'm not the only one who has noticed that the Angels seem to have lost a lot of games they had early leads in this season. I think they've led in over 80% of their games. They seem to score early, and then that's it.

Well, it's true. So far, the Angels are 4th in MLB is scoring runs from the 1st through 6th innings. They're 26th in scoring runs from the 7th inning, or later. It gets really bad when they're facing the other teams lefty/righty specialists in the 7th inning. I'm just going to call it the incompetent 7's. The Angels are dead last in scoring runs in the 7th inning (their 1st in the 3rd inning by a lot which explains many of their early leads). They are also dead last in driving in runs from the 7th spot in the lineup.

[Angel Oracle]

What could the explanation be?

Fluke thing?

Hitters let up subconsciously?

Or is late inning hitting malaise simply common in MLB?

Edited May 27, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[totdprods]

It’s ‘cause Mike Trout isn’t clutch.

[Chuck]

 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

What could the explanation be?

Fluke thing?

Hitters let up subconsciously?

Or is late inning hitting malaise simply common in MLB?

Maybe they are just really tired by the 7th inning? In all seriousness, they may not be making adjustments well or are not scouting the bullpen arms that well before a series 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Jason

[Angelsfan1984]

Easy solution. MLB needs to end games after 6 innings. 

[AngelsFanSince86]

That's definitely a reason, but I would venture to say the Angels relief era is misleading. They tend to hold the opposing team when they are up or down by several runs. Meaning, they hold opposing teams when the game is already decided. When it's a 1 or 2 run game, they blow it. The era looks good on paper, but what it comes down to is that they are giving up runs consistently when it matters most.

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

That's definitely a reason, but I would venture to say the Angels relief era is misleading. They tend to hold the opposing team when they are up or down by several runs. Meaning, they hold opposing teams when the game is already decided. When it's a 1 or 2 run game, they blow it. The era looks good on paper, but what it comes down to is that they are giving up runs consistently when it matters most.

WPA (measure of actual performance that includes leverage) is 22nd in baseball and 4th worst in just high leverage.  So you're spot on. 

The problem is that there have been way more high leverage situations than this pen was built to handle.  The starters are partially responsible.  The hitters somewhat but lesser so.   

[Swordsman78]

9 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

WPA (measure of actual performance that includes leverage) is 22nd in baseball and 4th worst in just high leverage.  So you're spot on. 

The problem is that there have been way more high leverage situations than this pen was built to handle.  The starters are partially responsible.  The hitters somewhat but lesser so.   

Agreed.   The hitting is the main culprit.   The Angels spent alot of $ on improving the offense and so far they are under performing.  Only Gio is over .300.

The pitching staff and coaches are taxed seemingly every night to be perfect because there is rarely a comfortable lead.  As many have mentioned, if the SP holds opponents to 1 run, we score 0-2.   The BP rarely gets much rest and recovery because the mainline guys are up throwing every day.   If not for the mandatory days off, the BP would be in physical shambles by now, and its not even Memorial Day.

[Lou]

17 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Agreed.   The hitting is the main culprit.   The Angels spent alot of $ on improving the offense and so far they are under performing.  Only Gio is over .300.

There are only 6 qualified players in the AL batting over .300 

[Swordsman78]

11 minutes ago, Lou said:

There are only 6 qualified players in the AL batting over .300 

Angels 2-3-4 hitters have 151 strikeouts vs. 157 hits.  (96%)  2-4 hitters have 90 RBI's. (59.6% RBI to strikeout)

For perspective (fellow "Hall of Fame" player)

Mantle career stats show 1710 strikeouts vs. 2410 hits.  (71%) 1509 RBI's  (88% RBI to Strikeout).

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Angels 2-3-4 hitters have 151 strikeouts vs. 157 hits.  (96%)  2-4 hitters have 90 RBI's. (59.6% RBI to strikeout)

For perspective (fellow "Hall of Fame" player)

Mantle career stats show 1710 strikeouts vs. 2410 hits.  (71%) 1509 RBI's  (88% RBI to Strikeout).

That's a different topic. 

[WicketMaiden]

1 hour ago, Swordsman78 said:

Agreed.   The hitting is the main culprit.   The Angels spent alot of $ on improving the offense and so far they are under performing.  Only Gio is over .300.

I don't agree, from what I've seen really poor decision making has been the main culprit. By the coaches/management and the players on the field. There was an extended period earlier this year where the team kept beating themselves by doing really dumb things, with the bat and the ball. The Angels stolen base strategy is a mystery, they steal in high risk and low leverage situations and will sit a guy on first with no outs throughout the 9th with the game on the line. Poor decisions have been at the root of a significant number of the errors on defence too. Yes the hitting has also been poor at times, and again often due to poor decision making driving players to swing at pitches they should take. The situational hitting is fairly non-existent. These guys have the talent, but they're losing these games in their heads.

[Swordsman78]

15 minutes ago, WicketMaiden said:

I don't agree, from what I've seen really poor decision making has been the main culprit. By the coaches/management and the players on the field.  Poor execution by the players is the difference between good/bad decision making by coaches

There was an extended period earlier this year where the team kept beating themselves by doing really dumb things, with the bat and the ball.  Lack of run support = alot of close games = "mistakes" are amplified in importance instead of being non factors.

The Angels stolen base strategy is a mystery, they steal in high risk and low leverage situations and will sit a guy on first with no outs throughout the 9th with the game on the line.  The offense if built around power.  We are not the A's

Poor decisions have been at the root of a significant number of the errors on defence too.  Once again, poor run support puts too much pressure on all other aspects to be perfect.

Yes the hitting has also been poor at times,  and again often due to poor decision making driving players to swing at pitches they should take.   If you mean (poor decisions aka) Strikeout rate by 2-3-4 players relative to hits or RBI's then I agree.

The situational hitting is fairly non-existent. These guys have the talent, but they're losing these games in their heads.  Agreed.  The offense is the root of the problem withe Angels

 

[BTH]

12 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

The problem is that there have been way more high leverage situations than this pen was built to handle.  The starters are partially responsible.  The hitters somewhat but lesser so.   

I think the issue is that they assumed building a high-powered offense would lessen the high leverage situations, with them adding key insurance runs.

Instead, the offense has kept them in more games while not delivering knockout blows with insurance runs.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Was at the game last night.

The Thaiss fuckup was obviously the death blow. But it's baseball... literally missed the plate by an inch. (Which is highlighted by the fact he had more than enough time, didn't have to rush).

 

The Moniak fuckup was ridiculous. Whole stadium lost it (understandably)

 

Felt bad for Barria.

[Erstad Grit]

LF has become a graveyard again 

[Docwaukee]

7 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

Angels 2-3-4 hitters have 151 strikeouts vs. 157 hits.  (96%)  2-4 hitters have 90 RBI's. (59.6% RBI to strikeout)

For perspective (fellow "Hall of Fame" player)

Mantle career stats show 1710 strikeouts vs. 2410 hits.  (71%) 1509 RBI's  (88% RBI to Strikeout).

I'll play along with your made up stats that have no correlation to winning

2-3-4 hitters.  

the Angels have the 12 most RBI and 12 fewest K's.  

For perspective, Drew Brees has almost double the passing yards than that of fellow hall of famer Johnny Unitas.  

they also have the 7th most runs, the 4th highest avg, the 6th most walks, the 9th most hits, the 10th highest BA with RISP, and the 7th best wRC+ with RISP.  

[Swordsman78]

1 minute ago, Docwaukee said:

I'll play along with your made up stats that have no correlation to winning

2-3-4 hitters.  

the Angels have the 12 most RBI and 12 fewest K's.  

For perspective, Drew Brees has almost double the passing yards than that of fellow hall of famer Johnny Unitas.  

Exactly why Mantle's team won multiple Championships.  There is the correlation.

Garbage time RBI and K's vs. High leverage RBI  That stat is most likely not pretty for the Halos Big 2

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

Exactly why Mantle's team won multiple Championships.  There is the correlation.

Garbage time RBI and K's vs. High leverage RBI  That stat is most likely not pretty for the Halos Big 2

in high leverage, 

Mike Trout 316 rbi in 825 at bats.  Trout has knocked in a run every 2.6 at bats in high leverage
Mickey Mantle 534 rbi in 1489.  Mantle knocked in a run every 2.8 at bats in high leverage.  

In high leverage this year our #2 and 3 hitters have a 194 wRC+.  4th best in baseball.  They're 7th overall in high leverage RBI.  

How long do you want to keep doing this?  

 

[Swordsman78]

8 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

in high leverage, 

Mike Trout 316 rbi in 825 at bats.  Trout has knocked in a run every 2.6 at bats in high leverage
Mickey Mantle 534 rbi in 1489.  Mantle knocked in a run every 2.8 at bats in high leverage.  

In high leverage this year our #2 and 3 hitters have a 194 wRC+.  4th best in baseball.  They're 7th overall in high leverage RBI.  

How long do you want to keep doing this?  

 

I respect your baseball knowledge and know I am out of my league in a debate with you.  Nonetheless, I personally had < % faith that Trout would come through in the 9th today.   As fans, it "seems like" Trout and Ohtani should be getting us some walk off wins.   As a fan, it "seems like", they have not been succeeding in walk off wins.

[Stradling]

11 hours ago, Lou said:

That's a different topic. 

Well you can’t expect him to be wrong and stay on topic 

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Well you can’t expect him to be wrong and stay on topic 

It's his MO 

[REDneck]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

It's his MO 

Where is the Angels MO?