How Joe Maddon Impacted Ohtani

[ten ocho recon scout]

45 minutes ago, cals said:

 after he choked and almost shot his girlfriend, so hey, he was loyal to them.

A relief pitcher shooting and missing... he'd fit in our pen nicely.

[Halo in Chicago]

Maddon should have had way more goodwill from finally getting the Cubs a championship. It says a lot how little he was missed when he left. 

[cals]

28 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

The narrative at the time was that he couldn't wait to get out pf Chicago because of how he was used.

I also remember Chapman disliking Epstein, not Maddon.  Joe left him out too long in Game 6 of that WS, but it worked out still.  

The story goes that Epstein, after trading for Chapman, immediately went to warning and lecturing him about behavior (the choking/shooting happened earlier that year).  And Chapman was a dick and didn't want to be lectured.  So when it came time for a new contract he went back to the Yankees. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

2 minutes ago, cals said:

I also remember Chapman disliking Epstein, not Maddon.  Joe left him out too long in Game 6 of that WS, but it worked out still.  

The story goes that Epstein, after trading for Chapman, immediately went to warning and lecturing him about behavior (the choking/shooting happened earlier that year).  And Chapman was a dick and didn't want to be lectured.  So when it came time for a new contract he went back to the Yankees. 

I don't doubt that there was friction that went beyond what happened on the field. Also not shocked that the Yankees would have no problem with criminal behavior as long as he produced.
Saw him in the recent KC series (didn't know that he was with the Royals). Can still bring it velocity-wise (a couple pitches at 103), but his control doesn't seem to be what it once was.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Vegas Halo Fan

[cals]

Just now, Vegas Halo Fan said:

I don't doubt that there was friction that went beyond what happened on the field. Also not shocked that the Yankees would have no problem with criminal behavior as long as he produced.

Some would say winning is the goal at all costs.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

1 minute ago, cals said:

Some would say winning is the goal at all costs.

Both literally and figuratively in the case of the Yankees.

[Duren, Duren]

Regardless of the ups and downs of the  process he still won a World Series. And had multiple over achieving teams in Tampa. 

But like players, age, motivation and ability don't remain constant. 

By the time he landed with the Angels he fulfilled the big focus objective of a historic series win. And a long resume with a positive reputation. 

My guess is that the Angel job was a convenient opportunity. Maybe something he felt would give closure to his career. As close to home as possible. A chance to manage MVP Trout. And get Ohtani to blossom to his full potential. 

The team had some great parts on paper, though obviously with holes in it. Seems like he was confident that he could stir the drink and patch together a winning team. But when things went bad he was unable to draw upon his own inner resources the way he had in his prime. Not to mention failures of players and the front office.  And he took riskier gambles hoping for the best. 

When Casey Stengel was 70 he had just lost the World Series to the underdog Pirates and the Yankees dumped him because of a dubious 'age' restriction. Casey bounced back even more animated with the expansion Mets, but became a comic figure, mocking his own team and basking in media attention. 

LaRussa came back at around the same age and remained professional but had lost his edge and savvy as the game had changed during his absence. 

Joe was kind of a cross between them. A big media friendly personality but not in his prime anymore. Not that he was incompetent. Just not able to steer the Angel ship any better than anyone else under the same circumstances. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

When people expressed happiness when he was hired, it was based largely upon the memory of how he was before he left. A significant amount of time had passed since then, and reality was a bit different. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Vegas Halo Fan

[AngelsLakersFan]

23 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

When people expressed happiness when he was hired, it was based largely upon the memory of how he was before he left. A significant amount of time had passed since then, and reality was a bit different. 

Most of Joe's goodwill from Angels fans is really just misplaced disdain for Mike Scioscia.

[Taylor]

9 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I'm probably just reading too much into some of the comments there. But reading Ohtani's agent saying he's always been open to signing an extension with the Angels...

Not sure how true that is. But if so? We're beyond stupid for not trying to lock him up 2 years ago.

I know 2020 was ugly, and he was hurt the first two years..

.. but you have to assume theu scouted him enough, and saw enough before TJ, to say "this guy can hit. And he can pitch, too"

It would have still been a gamble, but they should have gambled it back before he blew up in 2021. 

Once he did, they should have made that the priority that offseason.

But here we are.

It baffles me that there are some people who still defend Arte. Dude is a toxin that is destroying the Angels.

 

[ukyah]

On 4/25/2023 at 6:00 PM, Chuckster70 said:

@cals just take the L. You're not winning this argument. 

cals is clearly joking and somehow nobody gets it.

[ukyah]

7 hours ago, Duren, Duren said:

Regardless of the ups and downs of the  process he still won a World Series. And had multiple over achieving teams in Tampa. 

But like players, age, motivation and ability don't remain constant. 

By the time he landed with the Angels he fulfilled the big focus objective of a historic series win. And a long resume with a positive reputation. 

My guess is that the Angel job was a convenient opportunity. Maybe something he felt would give closure to his career. As close to home as possible. A chance to manage MVP Trout. And get Ohtani to blossom to his full potential. 

The team had some great parts on paper, though obviously with holes in it. Seems like he was confident that he could stir the drink and patch together a winning team. But when things went bad he was unable to draw upon his own inner resources the way he had in his prime. Not to mention failures of players and the front office.  And he took riskier gambles hoping for the best. 

When Casey Stengel was 70 he had just lost the World Series to the underdog Pirates and the Yankees dumped him because of a dubious 'age' restriction. Casey bounced back even more animated with the expansion Mets, but became a comic figure, mocking his own team and basking in media attention. 

LaRussa came back at around the same age and remained professional but had lost his edge and savvy as the game had changed during his absence. 

Joe was kind of a cross between them. A big media friendly personality but not in his prime anymore. Not that he was incompetent. Just not able to steer the Angel ship any better than anyone else under the same circumstances. 

 

there's no doubt he wanted to return to the angels and win a world championship, but he just wanted to do it his way with his guys and he wanted to be the reason why they won. there is no doubt about that, it comes across in almost everything he does and says. he's making sure he's getting credit for ohtani too. the dude is lame and stale as fuck.

[Dtwncbad]

11 hours ago, ukyah said:

 

there's no doubt he wanted to return to the angels and win a world championship, but he just wanted to do it his way with his guys and he wanted to be the reason why they won. there is no doubt about that, it comes across in almost everything he does and says. he's making sure he's getting credit for ohtani too. the dude is lame and stale as fuck.

A manager hellbent on being at the center of the story is probably not the right manager.  I really want this to be acknowledged as a brilliant take attached specifically to me personally, so I got a Mohawk this morning before I wrote it.

[James]

15 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Most of Joe's goodwill from Angels fans is really just misplaced disdain for Mike Scioscia.

He was well liked before Scioscia arrived. Some felt he earned the opportunity to manage and weren't happy he didn't get that chance so I'm not so sure it can be labeled as "most". 

[Lou]

Never liked him 

[Taylor]

6 minutes ago, Lou said:

Never liked him 

Not even when he was the Angels bench coach?

[Lou]

5 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Not even when he was the Angels bench coach?

Nope 

[James]

Just now, Lou said:

Nope 

Not even that one time in his RV?

[Lou]

1 minute ago, James said:

Not even that one time in his RV?

No. He only had wine.