Is the Mets lineup that good?

[Hubs]

I'm not debating pitching staffs, or defense, or health... but based on payroll alone I think the Mets lineup is not as good as advertised. They have a lot of good pitching even though they lost DeGrom. Can't argue with that staff. But is their lineup even with Correa that good?

Purely based on lineup and reserves/platoons...I'm not that impressed.

Ninmo (.800 OPS), Correa (.834 OPS), Lindor (.788 OPS), Alonso (.869 OPS), McNeil (.836 OPS), Marte (.814 OPS), Vogelbach/ Escobar (.830 OPS /.726 OPS), Canha (.770 OPS), and Navaraez/McCann (.597 OPS/ .538 OPS)

This team sans Correa and Navaraez scored 772 runs.

They were tied for fifth with the Cardinals last year. But this lineup is costing $163.5M (Ninmo ($18.5M), Correa (guessing $26M), Lindor ($34M), Alonso ($15.9M estimated), McNeil ($6.2M), Marte ($20.75M), Vogelbach/ Escobar ($1.5/$9.5M), Canha ($11.166M), and Navaraez/McCann ($8M, $12.5M). 

I'm not really sure that's that good of a lineup for that much money.

Fangraphs does have this lineup at 33.8 WAR but I just don't like it for the money. I don't know why. I just don't.

The Padres lineup also spent serious money this year, and are actually the only team thats got a projected higher WAR from their batters than the Mets. 35.9 WAR. By my estimates that will be about a $105M lineup.

The Cardinals and the Yankees have the third and fourth best WAR on this fan graphs projection, and Cards will check in less than $75. Yankees will be similar to the Mets.

For the reference, Angels are 12th here, about 7 WAR behind the Mets and 9 behind the Padres at 27 WAR from their lineup. The batters will be around $133M, maybe a bit more with the fourth OF, backup C. That includes Ohtani's whole $30M, but...he's also gonna give them 30 starts. 

Would you take. the Mets lineup over the Padres or the Cardinals or Yankees or Astros? How about over this Angels lineup?

I'm just not that impressed.

[totdprods]

Almost every time one of these super lineups or rotations are built they fail to live up to expectations. 

Saw a tweet somewhere that said Scherzer and deGrom I think won back-to-back turns in the rotation maybe twice last year.

The Phillies had a super rotation years ago that fell flat. Nationals too. Halos with Pujols and Hamilton and Trout.

And it’s the Mets. Something will go wrong.

[T.G.]

They're planning a ring ceremony for opening day.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

9 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I'm not debating pitching staffs, or defense, or health... but based on payroll alone I think the Mets lineup is not as good as advertised. They have a lot of good pitching even though they lost DeGrom. Can't argue with that staff. But is their lineup even with Correa that good?

Purely based on lineup and reserves/platoons...I'm not that impressed.

Ninmo (.800 OPS), Correa (.834 OPS), Lindor (.788 OPS), Alonso (.869 OPS), McNeil (.836 OPS), Marte (.814 OPS), Vogelbach/ Escobar (.830 OPS /.726 OPS), Canha (.770 OPS), and Navaraez/McCann (.597 OPS/ .538 OPS)

This team sans Correa and Navaraez scored 772 runs.

They were tied for fifth with the Cardinals last year. But this lineup is costing $163.5M (Ninmo ($18.5M), Correa (guessing $26M), Lindor ($34M), Alonso ($15.9M estimated), McNeil ($6.2M), Marte ($20.75M), Vogelbach/ Escobar ($1.5/$9.5M), Canha ($11.166M), and Navaraez/McCann ($8M, $12.5M). 

I'm not really sure that's that good of a lineup for that much money.

Fangraphs does have this lineup at 33.8 WAR but I just don't like it for the money. I don't know why. I just don't.

The Padres lineup also spent serious money this year, and are actually the only team thats got a projected higher WAR from their batters than the Mets. 35.9 WAR. By my estimates that will be about a $105M lineup.

The Cardinals and the Yankees have the third and fourth best WAR on this fan graphs projection, and Cards will check in less than $75. Yankees will be similar to the Mets.

For the reference, Angels are 12th here, about 7 WAR behind the Mets and 9 behind the Padres at 27 WAR from their lineup. The batters will be around $133M, maybe a bit more with the fourth OF, backup C. That includes Ohtani's whole $30M, but...he's also gonna give them 30 starts. 

Would you take. the Mets lineup over the Padres or the Cardinals or Yankees or Astros? How about over this Angels lineup?

I'm just not that impressed.

Nearly a $400M payroll, that's seems to be so unfair. I hope our new owner is just as free with his wallet...

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, T.G. said:

They're planning a ring ceremony for opening day.

And putting up a “Spent $375 million” pennant

[Blarg]

4 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Nearly a $400M payroll, that's seems to be so unfair. I hope our new owner is just as free with his wallet...

I hope the new owner is smarter than that. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Just now, Blarg said:

I hope the new owner is smarter than that. 

I hope the new owner is that rich, why should l care how much he spends, not my money...

[Docwaukee]

It's really really good.  One of the top 3 and I'd probably take the Padres lineup over theirs.  But the fact that it arguably might not be the best is insane considering what they've spent.  

[Docwaukee]

I would prefer the new owner of the Angels to do nothing like what the mets are doing.  Takes some of the fun out of it as far as I'm concerned.  I'm all for a high payroll and filling holes with free agency but I'd rather they focus on building a super strong amateur side with appropriate supplementation as opposed to just throwing stupid money around.  

[BTH]

12 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I would prefer the new owner of the Angels to do nothing like what the mets are doing.  Takes some of the fun out of it as far as I'm concerned.  I'm all for a high payroll and filling holes with free agency but I'd rather they focus on building a super strong amateur side with appropriate supplementation as opposed to just throwing stupid money around.  

They’re throwing stupid money around so that they can be competitive while they build up a strong amateur side, just like the Dodgers did after Guggenheim bought them.

And it’s the exact model the Angels new owner should follow. Spend money to keep the MLB team competitive, which allows you to keep your prospects and build your farm system.

[T.G.]

[T.G.]

[ten ocho recon scout]

In short, for the money they are spending, no it is not that great. Very good, but with basically a historic payroll and 100 mill tax penalty, you'd expect basically a 1-9 all star lineup. 2000s Yankees kind of thing.

That being said, they're going to be very good. And I assume here that Cohen has enough money that this team is a much of a kick in the ass to his money as Netflix is to people on here.

I won't be shocked to see them make trades at the deadline to take on more money

[T.G.]

Correa is really the first upgrade they’ve made this off-season. They basically either brought back guys they would have lost to FA or replaced 3 pitchers with 3 new pitchers.

[Pancake Bear]

2 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Correa is really the first upgrade they’ve made this off-season. They basically either brought back guys they would have lost to FA or replaced 3 pitchers with 3 new pitchers.

Verlander, assuming health, is probably an upgrade on a mostly absent deGrom. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 hours ago, Hubs said:

I just don't like it for the money. 

That’s not the point

[AngelsLakersFan]

“I love our lineup, for the money” - Billy Beane

[Tank]

there's going to be a lot of pressure from the fans for this team to win. if they play up to expectations, they could be a lot of fun to watch.

[Warfarin]

3 hours ago, Trendon said:

They’re throwing stupid money around so that they can be competitive while they build up a strong amateur side, just like the Dodgers did after Guggenheim bought them.

And it’s the exact model the Angels new owner should follow. Spend money to keep the MLB team competitive, which allows you to keep your prospects and build your farm system.

This is what I hope too.  I think Minasian would be a fantastic guy to pull it off too - he worked for teams that used far less financial resources and knew how to build up farm systems.  I think he would do a great job of helping oversee that process.

That aside, I think Cohen will be an amplified version of the Guggenheim group.  The Guggenheim group pulled back spending multiple times to reset the luxury tax.  I am skeptical Cohen will take an approach like that.  He seems like the modern version of George Steinbrenner in terms of spending above the rest of his peers.