Exploring Contract Swaps for Loup and Tepera

[BTH]

Considering that payroll could be tight this offseason with the pending ownership change, the Angels will need to get creative to improve the team in 2023.

One avenue that hasn’t been discussed? Swapping an “unreasonable contract” for another “unreasonable contract.”

 

While Trout, Rendon, Stassi, and Fletcher all have guaranteed contracts, they don’t fit the contract swap type. But Loup and Tepera do.

Loup: $7.5M in 2023 + a $2M Buyout in 2024.

Tepera: $7M in 2023.

 

Some potential contract swaps for either of these two?

Nick Ahmed ($10.375M)

Paul DeJong ($9.167M + $2M Buyout)

Randal Grichuk ($10.33M)

Tommy La Stella ($11.5M)

Jake Odorizzi ($12.5M)

AJ Pollock ($10M)

Darin Ruf ($3M + 250k Buyout)

Eddie Rosario ($9M)

Jonathan Schoop ($7.5M)

[jsnpritchett]

So where's the list of players who can help the Angels improve? 

[BTH]

41 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

So where's the list of players who can help the Angels improve? 

So you don’t think any of those position players are an upgrade over Phil Gosselin, Jose Rojas, Tyler Wade, Jonathan Villar, Juan Lagares, Jack Mayfield, Magneuris Sierra, David MacKinnon, Ryan Aguilar, Steven Duggar, or Aaron Whitefield?

[Slegnaac]

2 minutes ago, Trendon said:

So you don’t think any of those position players are an upgrade over Phil Gosselin, Jose Rojas, Tyler Wade, Jonathan Villar, Juan Lagares, Jack Mayfield, Magneuris Sierra, David MacKinnon, Ryan Aguilar, Steven Duggar, or Aaron Whitefield?

Are those guys still on the 40 man roster?

[Angel Oracle]

Grichuk is the slam dunk choice amongst those players.

Solid enough career stats against LHPs/RHPs and home/away, only last season did that change (aberration)?

One year to FA like Loup, and fills LF need while allowing Adell to work on hitting and some more on defense in AAA.

Don’t need a MIF with Rengifo, Fletcher, Squid, and Soto in the mix with Neto on the way.

Don’t need any of the pitchers.   Re-sign Lorenzen (3.75 ERA when healthy) and let Silseth, Bush, and if healthy CRod and Canning compete for the remaining rotation spot.

Might need to throw in a middling to decent prospect if Loup traded?

Grichuk does have up to $2 million incentives clause based on 2021-2022 PAs.

If Loup traded, Rockies only save $1-3 million.

If Tepera traded, Rockies save $3-5 million.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[AngelsHilo]

No.  

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Slegnaac said:

Are those guys still on the 40 man roster?

They aren’t, but it’s production from 2022 that happened and needs to be improved on.

If the Angels don’t improve their depth, they’ll end up relying on the equivalents of those players in 2023. It may not be the same names, but it’d be the same production.

The players listed didn’t have good 2022 seasons, but the back of their baseball cards tell you that they’re substantially better than the below replacement level players the Angels ran out there last season.

[BTH]

34 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Don’t need a MIF with Rengifo, Fletcher, Squid, and Soto in the mix with Neto on the way.

That kind of thinking is how you end up with the horrible depth like they had in 2022.

[Angel Oracle]

15 minutes ago, Trendon said:

That kind of thinking is how you end up with the horrible depth like they had in 2022.

If they do need a MIF, it’s only for 2023 at the most.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[BTH]

11 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

If they do need a MIF, it’s only for 2023 at the most.

You can’t say that and be certain it’s true.

What if Rendon gets hurt again? What if Fletcher’s bat doesn’t rebound? What if Rengifo’s 2022 season was an aberration? What if Neto struggles, keeping in mind he was aggressively promoted to AA? What if Soto’s 2022 was an aberration? What if Jackson and Paris don’t take steps?

[Angel Oracle]

19 minutes ago, Trendon said:

You can’t say that and be certain it’s true.

What if Rendon gets hurt again? What if Fletcher’s bat doesn’t rebound? What if Rengifo’s 2022 season was an aberration? What if Neto struggles, keeping in mind he was aggressively promoted to AA? What if Soto’s 2022 was an aberration? What if Jackson and Paris don’t take steps?

You can’t overload the MIF depth though, and ignore the lack of a 3rd OF.

[Chuck]

@Trendon I think changing the title to "A Creative Way to Improve the 2023 Angels Bench Depth" would be better served. 

[Angels 1961]

I think halos are stuck with Loup and Tepera. Hopefully they pitch well enough to get traded at deadline. Save new owners 6 to 7 million. 

[Angelsjunky]

This thread reminds me of trying to get that last 10% of ketchup out of a bottle.

[Taylor]

9 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

This thread reminds me of trying to get that last 10% of ketchup out of a bottle.

This is an excellent post. Well done. 

[jsnpritchett]

2 hours ago, Trendon said:

So you don’t think any of those position players are an upgrade over Phil Gosselin, Jose Rojas, Tyler Wade, Jonathan Villar, Juan Lagares, Jack Mayfield, Magneuris Sierra, David MacKinnon, Ryan Aguilar, Steven Duggar, or Aaron Whitefield?

Of course they are. But to me, that's not how we should look at the situation. In what you're proposing, you're creating a hole (relief pitching) to patch another (bench depth), while also potentially adding as much as $5.5M to next year's payroll.  So now you're down $3-5.5M and you still need to sign a reliever who can hopefully match or improve upon what Loup/Tepera could do.  That'll cost, what, a minimum of $3M, likely a lot more?  So why not just sign a free agent bench piece for $3-8.5M and keep Loup/Tepera?  I wasn't a big fan of signing either one of them, but I think there's at least a reasonable chance that one or both will be marginally (or significantly) better next season. 

[greginpsca]

I would look at Tampa. They have 19 arb eligible players. As cheap as they are, you know they will be non-tendering a few guys. Could be some bargains there.

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, Trendon said:

So you don’t think any of those position players are an upgrade over Phil Gosselin, Jose Rojas, Tyler Wade, Jonathan Villar, Juan Lagares, Jack Mayfield, Magneuris Sierra, David MacKinnon, Ryan Aguilar, Steven Duggar, or Aaron Whitefield?

Since none of those players will be on the Angels roster, no.

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

This thread reminds me of trying to get that last .010% of ketchup out of a bottle.

 

[BTH]

3 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

You can’t overload the MIF depth though, and ignore the lack of a 3rd OF.

Who says you can’t do both?

The idea behind this thread is that instead of settling for an improvement at just middle infield or LF, you can improve at both positions.

If you swap contracts, you may be able to upgrade at one spot with no additional payroll added and still have money to upgrade another spot.

[BTH]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

@Trendon I think changing the title to "A Creative Way to Improve the 2023 Angels Bench Depth" would be better served. 

I changed it to “Exploring Contract Swaps for Loup and Tepera.”

[BTH]

3 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

Of course they are. But to me, that's not how we should look at the situation. In what you're proposing, you're creating a hole (relief pitching) to patch another (bench depth), while also potentially adding as much as $5.5M to next year's payroll.  So now you're down $3-5.5M and you still need to sign a reliever who can hopefully match or improve upon what Loup/Tepera could do.  That'll cost, what, a minimum of $3M, likely a lot more?  So why not just sign a free agent bench piece for $3-8.5M and keep Loup/Tepera?  I wasn't a big fan of signing either one of them, but I think there's at least a reasonable chance that one or both will be marginally (or significantly) better next season. 

The idea behind a contract swap would be for the salaries to even out. So I presented players who have salaries similar to Loup/Tepera, as one side could send a million or two in the deal to balance it out.

As for replacing Loup/Tepera, I think it’s easier to replace a reliever than a position player. The Angels have numerous SP’s that could be converted to RP’s and numerous RP’s that haven’t gotten sustained chances at the major league level. There’s also minor league free agency, waiver claims, and minor trades as a way to replace them.

You often see quality relievers emerge out of nowhere, but that’s not the case as often for quality position players.

[BTH]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

Since none of those players will be on the Angels roster, no.

But unless you improve the depth, the equivalents of those players will be on the Angels roster.

It won’t be those players specifically, but it’ll be players with the same talent level as those players.

[jsnpritchett]

5 minutes ago, Trendon said:

The idea behind a contract swap would be for the salaries to even out. So I presented players who have salaries similar to Loup/Tepera, as one side could send a million or two in the deal to balance it out.

As for replacing Loup/Tepera, I think it’s easier to replace a reliever than a position player. The Angels have numerous SP’s that could be converted to RP’s and numerous RP’s that haven’t gotten sustained chances at the major league level. There’s also minor league free agency, waiver claims, and minor trades as a way to replace them.

You often see quality relievers emerge out of nowhere, but that’s not the case as often for quality position players.

Theoretically, I could be on board with what you're suggesting.  I just don't think any of the guys you listed are likely to have even decent seasons next year.  (And, before you or anyone else asks: no, I haven't looked to see who would be better options.  Ha ha.)

 

 

 

[mmc]

Idk man, it feels like any player we trade them for would be just as likely to rebound for us as these two would, so we might as well just keep the guys our front office at one point saw something in and hope they unlock it.  Or at least, that feels more likely than getting anything useful back in a trade for them.  I wouldn’t really care either way though