OC Register: Angels’ Jo Adell embraces lessons he learned during up-and-down season

[AngelsWin.com]

OAKLAND — Of all the numbers under Jo Adell’s name after his third season in the major leagues, the one that gives the most reason for hope is this one.

Twenty-three.

Adell is still just 23, young enough that the Angels can maintain some optimism about him despite another season of unmet expectations.

“It’s so intriguing, because he’s so athletic,” Manager Phil Nevin said. “You see it in the field. You see it when he runs the bases. You see it with his pregame work. You just feel like at some point it’s really going to click and translate.”

So far it looks like this: Adell is hitting .226 with eight home runs and a .641 OPS. His performance in the field has noticeably improved, including a handful of spectacular catches and strong throws, and fewer misplays.

“It’s had its ups and downs, but that’s going to be every year,” Adell said when asked to evaluate his season. “I look forward to bringing what I’ve learned this year and bringing it back next year and hopefully impacting the team and helping this team win.”

Adell’s athleticism – his raw power and his speed – are the tools that continue to impress. He demonstrated the power over the weekend with a pair of rocket extra-base hits, a double and a homer.

His primary issue at the plate, though, is his discipline. Adell has struck out 103 times and drawn just 11 walks.

“It’s got to get better,” Nevin said. “He knows that. That’s part of the swing decision-making. Attack earlier in the count when he gets pitches to hit. Maybe shortening up. Those are things he’s gonna have to work on. … When he does hit it, it’s impressive. If you can minimize those (misses) a little bit and maximize when he’s impacting the baseball the way he does, you’ve got a pretty good player.”

Adell admits that his strikeout-to-walk ratio has been disappointing. In his first two seasons, he struck out 87 times and walked 15 times, so he’s gotten slightly worse.

“It’s just one of those things where with me wanting to come in and help the team and put on a swing on if I can, I think over-aggressiveness got the best of me in some of those counts,” he said. “I’m going to continue to work on that, continue to know the zone and what I’m trying to hunt.”

It’s all just part of the struggle that Adell has embraced.

“Obviously, there were some things that I could have done better, but that’s part of the learning,” he said. “I wouldn’t take that away. My struggles, I wouldn’t take that away for anything. I’ve struggled my entire life. Playing and figuring it out and getting better and coming back. That’s just kind of what I’m about.”

RENDON RETURNS

Anthony Rendon was in the Angels’ lineup on Monday, playing third and batting fifth. It was his first game since June 14, before he had wrist surgery.

Rendon went through his rehab and returned just in time to serve his five-game suspension and squeeze in a few at-bats before heading home for the offseason.

Nevin said the plan was for Rendon to get a couple of at-bats on Monday and then play as many innings as he could on Tuesday. He is not expected to start on Wednesday, in the season finale. It’s a similar routine to what he would do if he were starting a minor league rehab assignment.

SPEED UP

Pitching coach Matt Wise said the Angels have been timing all of their pitchers lately to see how many of their pitches would have been in violation of the restrictions of next year’s pitch clock. He said about 50 percent of the time the pitchers have used too much time.

“There’s a lot of guys across the league that it’s going to be a major, major adjustment,” Wise said. “It’s just something that you have to get used to.”

Wise Shohei Ohtani is one of the pitchers who generally works too slowly.

“Definitely he will make a change,” Wise said. “Typical Sho, he will probably come in (next year) exactly where he needs to be.”

NOTES

Catcher Kurt Suzuki is scheduled to start on Tuesday, the final start of his 16-year major league career. Suzuki began his career with the Oakland A’s. “This is a special place for him,” Nevin said. “His family will be here so we’ll try to make it as special as we can for him on his exit.” …

Right-hander Davis Daniel joined the Angels as part of the taxi squad.

UP NEXT

Angels (RHP Michael Lorenzen, 8-6, 4.52) at A’s (LHP Cole Irvin, 9-13, 4.11), Tuesday, 6:40 p.m., Bally Sports West, 830 AM

View the full article

[BTH]

38 minutes ago, AngelsWin.com said:

Pitching coach Matt Wise said the Angels have been timing all of their pitchers lately to see how many of their pitches would have been in violation of the restrictions of next year’s pitch clock. He said about 50 percent of the time the pitchers have used too much time.

“There’s a lot of guys across the league that it’s going to be a major, major adjustment,” Wise said. “It’s just something that you have to get used to.”

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but this would seem to imply that Wise is gonna return as pitching coach in 2023.

Otherwise, I'm not sure that preparing pitchers for something happening in 2023 would be on his agenda.

[jsnpritchett]

12 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but this would seem to imply that Wise is gonna return as pitching coach in 2023.

Otherwise, I'm not sure that preparing pitchers for something happening in 2023 would be on his agenda.

I think he'll probably be back next year, but even if he doesn't come back, this seems like a perfectly normal thing for a pitching coach to do in-season.  Even if the Angels have told him he's not coming back, he'd still perform duties like this for the rest of this season.

[TroutField]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

I think he'll probably be back next year, but even if he doesn't come back, this seems like a perfectly normal thing for a pitching coach to do in-season.  Even if the Angels have told him he's not coming back, he'd still perform duties like this for the rest of this season.

Why wouldn’t he be back, with how solid the pitching was this year? 

[jsnpritchett]

3 minutes ago, TroutField said:

Why wouldn’t he be back, with how solid the pitching was this year? 

I said I think he'll be back. 

[Angel Oracle]

15 hours ago, AngelsWin.com said:

Adell admits that his strikeout-to-walk ratio has been disappointing. In his first two seasons, he struck out 87 times and walked 15 times, so he’s gotten slightly worse.

“It’s just one of those things where with me wanting to come in and help the team and put on a swing on if I can, I think over-aggressiveness got the best of me in some of those counts,” he said. “I’m going to continue to work on that, continue to know the zone and what I’m trying to hunt.”

Having 1-6 in the order healthy next season should put a lot less pressure on Adell.

[Revad]

21 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Having 1-6 in the order healthy next season should put a lot less pressure on Adell.

I guess we can afford Adell, a catcher and a light hitting SS if the top 6 are healthy, but what percent of the year will that be so?

[BTH]

35 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Having 1-6 in the order healthy next season should put a lot less pressure on Adell.

Adell’s not gonna have any less pressure next season than he does right now, hitting 8th with Rengifo, Trout, Ohtani, Ward, and Rendon in the lineup.

[Docwaukee]

I'm gonna take a relatively extreme view on Adell.  

First, I would qualify and say there's plenty of time considering his age so people don't get their panties in a wad about 'giving up' on him.  

I am kinda sick of hearing the word 'athletic' associated with him.  He's got tools.  Run fast, swing fast, throw fast.  But has anyone watched him field a routine grounder in the OF?  It's awkward as shit.  He took a popup off the chest earlier this year.  He's shoved a ball over the wall with his glove for a home run.  Yes, he's improving with more experience and he's made some good plays but his baseline ability to coordinate his body, arms, legs, hands etc into the way you'd normally see it from other good OFers just isn't the same.  It's where I think he lacks overall athleticism.  

And to me, this plays into his approach at the plate.  His lack of eye hand coordination is the problem.  I've said this before.  His problem isn't all just pitch recognition.  Yes, that is a part of it but it's not everything as to why he's not getting better.  

Why is his avg exit velo in the bottom 20% in all of baseball whereas his max exit velo is among the top 80%?

If he qualified in batting, his zone contact % would be the third worst in baseball just above Javy Baez and Joey Gallo.   His overall contact rate would be 4th worst in the league.  His swinging strike rate would be 4th worst in the league. 

My point is that even if his pitch recognition got better, he's still have major problems with making contact. 

So, in my opinion, and this is, of course, just my extreme view, I think he needs a total swing overhaul.  One that is super short and quick and makes every effort to emphasize contact.  That's my take.   

[AngelsLakersFan]

14 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

I said I think he'll be back. 

No one can know how many secret dick picks are floating out there.

[Jeff Fletcher]

13 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

So, in my opinion, and this is, of course, just my extreme view, I think he needs a total swing overhaul.  One that is super short and quick and makes every effort to emphasize contact.  That's my take. 

I wrote a story back in August comparing Adell to Rengifo. They say Rengifo dramatically shortened his swing and it’s made a huge difference for him. They are trying to get Adell to do the same thing. 
 

It’s not easy. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

9 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I'm gonna take a relatively extreme view on Adell.  

First, I would qualify and say there's plenty of time considering his age so people don't get their panties in a wad about 'giving up' on him.  

I am kinda sick of hearing the word 'athletic' associated with him.  He's got tools.  Run fast, swing fast, throw fast.  But has anyone watched him field a routine grounder in the OF?  It's awkward as shit.  He took a popup off the chest earlier this year.  He's shoved a ball over the wall with his glove for a home run.  Yes, he's improving with more experience and he's made some good plays but his baseline ability to coordinate his body, arms, legs, hands etc into the way you'd normally see it from other good OFers just isn't the same.  It's where I think he lacks overall athleticism.  

And to me, this plays into his approach at the plate.  His lack of eye hand coordination is the problem.  I've said this before.  His problem isn't all just pitch recognition.  Yes, that is a part of it but it's not everything as to why he's not getting better.  

Why is his avg exit velo in the bottom 20% in all of baseball whereas his max exit velo is among the top 80%?

If he qualified in batting, his zone contact % would be the third worst in baseball just above Javy Baez and Joey Gallo.   His overall contact rate would be 4th worst in the league.  His swinging strike rate would be 4th worst in the league. 

My point is that even if his pitch recognition got better, he's still have major problems with making contact. 

So, in my opinion, and this is, of course, just my extreme view, I think he needs a total swing overhaul.  One that is super short and quick and makes every effort to emphasize contact.  That's my take.   

I haven't really drilled into it but is his swing really that long? Obviously it's no Trout swing, but it doesn't look awful. 

In some ways I'm reminded of Kaleb Cowart, who I was convinced would figure it out at some point. He had all the tools but he'd just swing through pitches. Ultimately I think he just didn't have the MLB caliber hand / eye coordination required to make it. 

[Angelsjunky]

Echoing some of what Doc said above, I'm kind of sick of the "he's still young and so athletic!" shpiel. In the end, it doesn't matter how athletic he is unless he can translate that talent to actual baseball skills, and while 23 is still relatively young, he's also not a 19-year-old for whom such rawness would be acceptable, or at least workable. 

I don't think they should give up on him, of course, but I do think that "learning on the job" isn't necessarily the best approach - at least if they want to at least give the appearance of being competitive next year. Skill-wise, he still looks like a guy who skipped AA and AAA. Probably the best approach would be to send him back to AAA and work on the swing overhaul there.

He also sounds a bit too blase about things in general, but especially his plate discipline. He doesn't have to be--and never will be--a Barry Bonds type, but he (and the Angels) need to take that atrocious 4.0 BB% to 37.8 K% very seriously, especially considering the fact that has actually gotten worse this year.

In the end, I don't see him as a top prospect anymore, and he's still a good way from being a competent major leaguer. He's best viewed as either a fringe prospect, albeit with darkhorse upside, or a former prospect who is now a project in need of an overhaul. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Angelsjunky

[OhtaniSan]

Adell's a guy we've all drooled over before, and I think that same star-potential still exists. When he first came up, his glaring issues were his defense, his eye, and his hit tools. He's since improved his defense to a passable level, and the power, speed, arm, and athleticism are already there.

I feel the key to his success will be drastically improving either his eye/discipline/batting approach to allow a for higher OBP to raise his OPS to passable levels, or drastically shortening his swing to allow for higher and more consistent hard contact rates and a higher batting AVG. Unfortunately for him, those are the two hardest things to improve upon. But he'll forever be a scrub, barely even useful as a bench player, if one of the two areas do not improve. 

 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I haven't really drilled into it but is his swing really that long? Obviously it's no Trout swing, but it doesn't look awful. 

In some ways I'm reminded of Kaleb Cowart, who I was convinced would figure it out at some point. He had all the tools but he'd just swing through pitches. Ultimately I think he just didn't have the MLB caliber hand / eye coordination required to make it. 

He's got incredible bat speed. Which is one of those tools that people salivate over.  I've made some efforts in the past to analyze his swing, but at the end of the day, I'm far from an expert.  As @Jeff Fletcher mentioned above, it makes some sense to shorten his swing ala Rengifo, but that's where the comp between the two stops.  Because frankly those two are apples and oranges and if they're going about it in a similar was because it worked for Luis then it's gonna fail.  And I'd think you'd expect some progress in that regard even though I know it's not easy.  But it's gotten worse and if it has to get worse before it gets better (which I'm not inclined to believe tbh) then it should be attempted in a more controlled environment.  Like the minors.  

And his minor league numbers at AAA demonstrate a ton of smoke and mirrors in my opinion.  The ball doesn't spin the same.  We've seen consistently how being at SLC is a red herring in terms of success.  Even his last stint there.  Yes, a higher bb rate but a k rate of 31%.  An avg of .239.  A BABIP of .273.  That's more than just a little bad luck and imo has a lot to do with the quality of contact he's making.  

Whatever swing he uses he just doesn't make enough contact and when he does, he isn't hitting the ball hard with consistency.  But overall, his contact rates just haven't improved.  That's why it's apples and oranges to Rengifo because whatever worked for Luis doesn't mean it'll translate.  Luis was good at making hard contact consistently.  And his success has actually come from just swinging (and hitting hard) more.  At balls in the zone and outside the zone.  His overall swing rates have gone up and in particular within the zone.  

That's why I called the approach I'd take with him extreme.  I'd send him to the development team in AZ over the winter and then to the minors with whatever new approach they come up with.  And then I'd be looking at whatever metrics or data they have that proves his contact quality has consistently improved.  The only think we, as fans, have available is k rate, avg and BABIP.  But that probably doesn't tell the whole story.  

I just don't agree with him gutting this out at the major league level.  Or waiting for it to 'click' somehow.  

[Angel Oracle]

I admittedly wouldn’t mind them signing someone to a one year deal (plus team option year), like Benetendi.

Guy is a solid OBP person to have towards the top of the order, and plays solid enough defense.

Maybe Adell needs at least winter ball plus the first half of the AAA season to address the offense shortcomings?

2023 is a pivotal year for him, as he hits his mid 20s with only one more options season left.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[Angelsjunky]

Benintendi will require--and get--more than a year. At this point I'd call him a solid regular: He's averaged about 2.3 WAR over the last two years, with a composite .279/.351/.431 line and 109 wRC+. Obviously a huge improvement from what the Angels have had in LF recently, but still not someone I'd want to see them commit to.

With the team up for sale, I don't see them going after Judge. Brandon Nimmo is probably the next best option (after a huge gap), and will probably get a contract beyond what the Angels want to may. Then you have guys like Benintendi, Haniger and Pederson - not bad options for a year or two, but I wouldn't want to commit.

My top OF choice would be Michael Conforto. He's missed all of this year, was mediocre last year, so could be had on a one-year, "prove it" contract. 

Otherwise I'd probably just for a platoon guy and hope one of him, Adell, Moniak, or even Orlando Martinez, is good enough to claim a regular job. Another option would be to platoon O'Hoppe/Stassi at catcher, Thaiss (or a free agent) at 1B, and transition Walsh to the OF.

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, OhtaniSan said:

Adell's a guy we've all drooled over before, and I think that same star-potential still exists. When he first came up, his glaring issues were his defense, his eye, and his hit tools.

That's like saying, "I like everything about her except her looks and personality." I mean, there isn't much beyond his "glaring issues" as far as play on the field (OK, running) - and they remain glaring. Defense might have gotten to the point where it would be forgivable if he was mashing, but he's not, and he's still not very good in the outfield.

1 hour ago, OhtaniSan said:

 

He's since improved his defense to a passable level, and the power, speed, arm, and athleticism are already there.

So we're back to tools. Again, these don't mean squat until he learns some degree of plate discipline and makes more--and better--contact. I know you're not disagreeing with this, but I'm just emphasizing that at 23 and in the majors, he shouldn't be looking like a 19-year old project with lots of tools, sort of like Jordyn Adams after he was drafted. You draft a guy who looks like Adell in the late 1st round or 2nd round and hope to turn him into a ballplayer over the course of a few years. You don't try to hope something clicks at the major league level, especially not after a full season's worth (159 games) of play.

The year is over and there isn't much they can do about it now. But I agree with Doc that he probably needs more than just going back to AAA. And a return to the major league roster on Opening Day seems just ludicrous, especially if he doesn't have an offseason program.

Or maybe he needs a personal coach for the offseason - someone who knows hitting in and out. Maybe now's a good time to reach out to Rod Carew (I half jest, but that's the type of out-of-the-box thinking that is required, imo).

54 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

That's more than just a little bad luck and imo has a lot to do with the quality of contact he's making.  

I've made this point before. If he was making higher quality contact, his power would be showing up more - but he has still only hit 8 of his 59 hits out of the ballpark. Prorated to 150 hits, that's 20 HR...which isn't much above average. 

I don't know if he's not seeing the ball, has poor pitch recognition, too long of a swing, or what, but the overall result is still a mess, and it isn't like he's been unlucky, as you say. As I said above, he looks like a 19-20 year old prospect who skipped AA and AAA.

 

[Vlad27Trout27]

Heading into next season. would you be fine with Adell and Moniak being the left fielders? Adell has an OPS of arounf 640 this season, and Moniack's seasonw is lost. Both guys will fight it out and be in that 8th-hole spot. 

[OhtaniSan]

26 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

Heading into next season. would you be fine with Adell and Moniak being the left fielders? Adell has an OPS of arounf 640 this season, and Moniack's seasonw is lost. Both guys will fight it out and be in that 8th-hole spot. 

I feel like this is the same scenario we run into every season, relying on scrub-level players to hopefully click and over perform, which always leads to more mediocrity when it fails. In an ideal world with an ideal owner, there would be enough $$$ to sign a LF, SP, 1B, 2B/SS, RP, Closer.

With the owner situation we have entering the offseason, we'll likely be lucky to get 2 of those needs addressed. And of those needs, i would wager the Adell/Moniak OF situation as far more likely to bust than a Fletcher/Rengifo/Soto/Velazquez situation we have for 2B/SS.  So i'd prefer signing an OF, and leave Adell/Moniak to battle for the backup OF spot. Ideally we sign an OF like Mancini, Adell starts in AAA to work on his swing, with Moniak being the backup. I do think in such a situation, whoever is handed the backup OF spot, is probably the one the Angels view as more of a bust with the one in AAA still having some level of potential to not give up on.

[Docwaukee]

5 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

I admittedly wouldn’t mind them signing someone to a one year deal (plus team option year), like Benetendi.

Guy is a solid OBP person to have towards the top of the order, and plays solid enough defense.

Maybe Adell needs at least winter ball plus the first half of the AAA season to address the offense shortcomings?

2023 is a pivotal year for him, as he hits his mid 20s with only one more options season left.

you've mentioned a couple deals now that players have zero incentive for.   Adding the team option year actually decreases the incentive even more.   He's entering his age 28 season coming off a 3 WAR season.  My guess is he gets at least 4 if not 5 years.  

[jsnpritchett]

5 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

There's not really an incentive for Benintendi to sign a short-term deal.  He's 28 and coming off a solid year, heading into his first go at free agency.  My guess is that he's looking for 4+ years, minimum.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

you've mentioned a couple deals now that players have zero incentive for.   Adding the team option year actually decreases the incentive even more.   He's entering his age 28 season coming off a 3 WAR season.  My guess is he gets at least 4 if not 5 years.  

I agree.

[Angelsjunky]

4 hours ago, OhtaniSan said:

I feel like this is the same scenario we run into every season, relying on scrub-level players to hopefully click and over perform, which always leads to more mediocrity when it fails. In an ideal world with an ideal owner, there would be enough $$$ to sign a LF, SP, 1B, 2B/SS, RP, Closer.

With the owner situation we have entering the offseason, we'll likely be lucky to get 2 of those needs addressed. And of those needs, i would wager the Adell/Moniak OF situation as far more likely to bust than a Fletcher/Rengifo/Soto/Velazquez situation we have for 2B/SS.  So i'd prefer signing an OF, and leave Adell/Moniak to battle for the backup OF spot. Ideally we sign an OF like Mancini, Adell starts in AAA to work on his swing, with Moniak being the backup. I do think in such a situation, whoever is handed the backup OF spot, is probably the one the Angels view as more of a bust with the one in AAA still having some level of potential to not give up on.

You had me all the way until the last sentence. While I think Adell's upside is greater, his bust potential is also greater. Moniak will be, at the least, a solid defensive outfielder with a bit of pop - so basically a 4th outfielder. He can be more than that, but I think his floor is higher than Adell's, which is a guy who never addresses his weaknesses, is an up-and-down player for a few years, then a (failed) reclamation project for some other team, then out of baseball by the time he's 30.

I think, or hope, Adell will be better than that. But my point being, I see his bust potential being greater than Moniak.

Perhaps some of that is psychological. Moniak already went through being the "failed prospect." Now he's just a youngish guy, who is trying to develop into a solid ballplayer. The former glow of Adell's hype is in the more recent past, so there's more of a psychological obstacle to overcome.

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Angelsjunky

[failos]

This dude does not belong on a major league roster. He should stay in AAA until he wisens up.

[Angel Oracle]

That Kemp drive in the 8th shows that there’s still defensive work to be done.

Got totally turned around on it.

Could be that he does need the first half of 2023 at SLC to work more on the defense AND retool his swing?