AngelsWin Today: The Lineup: Offseason plans and 2023 Outlook

[Erstad Grit]

18 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

I think it's a tad early for this thread because a little over a month is left and with expanding rosters, we should be seeing what other players we have can do or not do but he certainly has his work cut out for him. I'd be surprised if the issues you brought up wouldn't be the same in a little less than 3 months from now. With the impending sale, it will also be interesting how Arte chooses to spend(assuming he is still in charge)

Well that's what happens when Angels are eliminated before the all star break lol. Early offseason pontification. 

[Dtwncbad]

19 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

Looking forward to seeing what kind of team the Nevin and Perry put together for next year.  As mentioned above there are some positives that can be built around such as starting pitching, and top players getting healthy.

I have a hard time believing Nevin will have much say, if ANY, on what the roster will look like next year.

[Angelsjunky]

19 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

I think it's a tad early for this thread because a little over a month is left and with expanding rosters, we should be seeing what other players we have can do or not do but he certainly has his work cut out for him. I'd be surprised if the issues you brought up wouldn't be the same in a little less than 3 months from now. With the impending sale, it will also be interesting how Arte chooses to spend(assuming he is still in charge)

I missed this one, evidently.

As I see it, there are only a few questions that will be answered over the last 32 games:

• Is Adell (or Moniak) ready to be a solid major league contributor? So far the answer is "no" and "maybe, but probably not." Adell shows flashes, but never with any consistency - and consistency is what its all about.
• Are Fletcher and Rengifo for real? So far it seems "Yes." Fletcher is back to a level similar to 2018-19, which is about all we should have hoped for - and good enough to play a major role in 2023, whether as a regular player or a platoon or hybrid. Rengifo has been consistently good, with a 120ish wRC+, for about half a season's worth. He may not be a .290/.320/.480 hitter, but he certainly seems like a .270/.310/.450 hitter, which with average defense makes him a starter.
• Are any of the AA/AAA pitchers close to ready? This doesn't relate to the thread topic, but thought I'd throw it out there.
• Is Thaiss good enough defensively to catch 40-60 games next year? He's being auditioned for the back-up/platoon role, at least until O'Hoppe is ready. Which brings me to...
• How close is Logan O'Hoppe? Hard to say. If the Angels call him up in a few weeks for a look, they might be considering him for a roster spot on Opening Day. More likely they'll put him in AAA and wait for an injury.

That's about it. I don't think any of those things really effect offseason moves, as far as the lineup goes. I mean, maybe Adell is Dave Winfield for the last few weeks and the Angels feel more confident in him, or maybe Moniak comes back and is good enough to give him a job. So that might impact offseason moves. And if the Angels want to start the year with five guys who can perform at a 2+ WAR level at 3B/SS/2B, they already have three of them (Rendon, Fletcher, Rengifo), so either way will need two legit middle infielders.

I don't see them doing much at catcher beyond maybe signing a minor league journeyman, or perhaps a very cheap back-up type if they don't like what they see from Thaiss.

Other questions won't be answered at all, until next year: Can Rendon and Trout stay healthy? Will Ward, Walsh, and Stassi bounce-back? Will any AA/AAA prospects breakout and enter consideration? Etc.

Meaning, I think we have about 95% of the info we need to speculate about what lineup moves need to be made.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Angelsjunky

[mmc]

Ford has been hitting ok in his short time here, if he continues to hit, can we rely on him and Walsh handling 1B?

[Revad]

19 hours ago, eligrba said:

I don't understand why having the team for sale would prevent the Angels from making some smart moves at this time.  Any potential buyers willing to spend over a couple of billion dollars aren't looking to "flip" the Angels.  Potential buyers, I assume, are looking at such an investment with long term goals.  Having a solid foundation, in my mind, wouldn't interfere with potential buyers.  I can see an attempt by the Angels to secure Ohtani with either a long term deal or a one year deal to avoid arbitration.  I can also see the Angels making a few other signings for shorter contracts hoping to secure better performances in some crucial positions.  I think it will be a normal off season with the typical projected payroll.

That would make sense and I hope that’s the way it turns out but I could see Arte limiting the budget.  I think he’s done with it and will maximize what he can get (it is business after all) so will do whatever needs to be done to make that happen.

9 minutes ago, mmc said:

Ford has been hitting ok in his short time here, if he continues to hit, can we rely on him and Walsh handling 1B?

I think we need a rh 1b that can play OF or 3b, or better yet both.

[jsnpritchett]

41 minutes ago, mmc said:

Ford has been hitting ok in his short time here, if he continues to hit, can we rely on him and Walsh handling 1B?

He's 30 years old (so older than Walsh).  He's had a handful of good games since he signed with the Angels, but has been inconsistent at best in his other ML opportunities since 2019.  Also, 2019 seems fluky/weird.  He went absolutely crazy in limited ABs against lefties, but didn't do much of anything against righties, despite batting left-handed.  I don't think he's any sort of answer to any of the Angels issues heading into next year.

[Dtwncbad]

56 minutes ago, mmc said:

Ford has been hitting ok in his short time here, if he continues to hit, can we rely on him and Walsh handling 1B?

No.

[BTH]

1 hour ago, mmc said:

Ford has been hitting ok in his short time here, if he continues to hit, can we rely on him and Walsh handling 1B?

I haven’t been a fan of his defense so far, so I‘d first need to see that improve in addition to him keeping this offensive performance up in September.

[Chuck]

I still think the Angels should try to sign Jose Abreu for 1B on a two-year deal. 

Sign Brandon Nimmo for LF. Outfield of: Nimmo LF, Trout CF, Ward RF

Or perhaps trade one of our young SP prospects for OF Sal Frelick from the Brewers. The Brewers first round pick last year has slashed .326/.404/.464 with 9 HR, 30 SB across 130 games. The Brewers are loaded with OF prospects in AAA (Garrett Mitchell, Joey Wiemer and Esteury Ruiz) in addition to Sal Frelick. Great contact hitter, very good on-base pct.

Sign a FA pitcher like Anderson, M. Perez, Clevinger, Cueto or Syndergaard for two-years. 

[Angels 1961]

4 hours ago, stormngt said:

I can't imagine any buyer not wanting to extend Ohtani.  In fact, Ohtani locked up (along with his promotional marketability) would increase the the value of the team.

The question does Ohtani want to test free agency? 

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

I still think the Angels should try to sign Jose Abreu for 1B on a two-year deal. 

Sign Brandon Nimmo for LF. Outfield of: Nimmo LF, Trout CF, Ward RF

Or perhaps trade one of our young SP prospects for OF Sal Frelick from the Brewers. The Brewers first round pick last year has slashed .326/.404/.464 with 9 HR, 30 SB across 130 games. The Brewers are loaded with OF prospects in AAA (Garrett Mitchell, Joey Wiemer and Esteury Ruiz) in addition to Sal Frelick. Great contact hitter, very good on-base pct.

Sign a FA pitcher like Anderson, M. Perez, Clevinger, Cueto or Syndergaard for two-years. 

All of those are reasonable ideas, but I’m not sure if the Angels will be able to pull all that off.

Hard to see Abreu leaving the White Sox and Nimmo’ is gonna get a big contract and the Angels would have to forfeit a draft pick to sign him.

A Brewers trade makes sense but prospect for prospect deals are pretty rare.

All of those SP options seem reasonable.

[BigVladdy]

@Angelsjunky Well done as always. Gonna be an interesting few years no matter what!

[greginpsca]

15 hours ago, Fregosi said:

At this point I would say changes first need to be made on the Coaching Staff.  Not just Nevin.  Clear the deck.  There needs to be a philosophical change in the culture of the Coaching Staff.  As much as Matt Wise has done wonders for some of our youngsters, what veteran Free Agent, front of the rotation pitcher, is thinking Wise is the Coach that will help move his career forward?  You think a Verlander or a Gerrit Cole is thinking Wise is the guy that's going to help him be successful?  Has Jeremy Reed improved any Angel hitter?  All I see from our hitters seems to be being choosy looking for a pitch to drive, as strike 3 pops into the Catchers mitt.  Heck, even the kids from Hawaii proved you can still hit a ball over the fence without the pitch actually being a strike, lol.  I am being facetious.  But I bet Brandon Marsh is far happier he's now working with Kevin Long ,as opposed to looking lost and confused in the Angels lineup.  

Angels need to prove to whoever the new owners are, that they actually have a plan in place that will take their new investment in a forward direction.  It's starts with the Coaches.  Perry needs to make these changes as well as hire personnel to dive in and provide a guidance for improving the Farm System.  This needs to be done now.  If Arte thinks Perry can't get this done, then Arte needs to find a GM who can.  The infrastructure has to change.  Adding players is just a small part of the equation.

I don't think there are going to be coaching changes in the off season made by the front office. I think that with a new ownership coming, it will be difficult to find replacements for one year, with potential coaches knowing the new ownership will clean house on their own. Some major league and minor league coaches may bail on their own.

[BTH]

1 hour ago, greginpsca said:

I don't think there are going to be coaching changes in the off season made by the front office. I think that with a new ownership coming, it will be difficult to find replacements for one year, with potential coaches knowing the new ownership will clean house on their own. Some major league and minor league coaches may bail on their own.

I disagree with that sentiment. For a higher profile position like GM or manager, that could be the case, but I don't think it'd be the case for coaches. Most coaches don't last more than a couple years anyway, so I don't think joining a team with an ownership change pending would be that different.

Even with the Angels recently, we've seen some old coaches survive under new managers and GM's, and owners aren't the ones changing out coaches.

[Chuck]

Another free agent pitcher i'd look at is Michael Wacha. He's 9-1 with a 2.56 ERA this season with Boston. 

[TempeAngel]

On 8/30/2022 at 4:57 PM, Trendon said:

Using Ward at 1B against lefties just creates a different hole in your lineup in RF.

Walsh is the hole in the lineup. Period. He sucks against RHP's (660 OPS) and LHP's (591 OPS). Last year he destroyed RHP's (994 OPS).

He has played himself out of the league.

Move on.

He has an option left so put him in SLC, if he is able to play, and hope he can figure it out.

[BigVladdy]

14 hours ago, TempeAngel said:

He has played himself out of the league.

Move on.

Seems a bit hasty...

[Warfarin]

Quite honestly, instead of spending 30-50mil on free agents, I'd much rather just see this organization use that money to hire as many of the Dodgers' and Rays' FO personnel as possible, along with as many of the people from their departments that they can hire.

Every year, the Dodgers, Rays, and elite teams like them seemingly pick guys that no organization wants and make them into solid contributors.  Look at Trayce Thompson - nobody wanted him at all, and now suddenly he's raking for the Dodgers.  How is Tyler Anderson suddenly a great pitcher?  Who is Evan Phillips and how has he retired 29 consecutive hitters?  Etc, etc..

I would love to see us just invest whatever money Arte intends to spend on building out FO infrastructure.  We already have the star players we need.  We just need to start finding solid contributors for cheap in the same way that these elite teams do.

[beatlesrule]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

Quite honestly, instead of spending 30-50mil on free agents, I'd much rather just see this organization use that money to hire as many of the Dodgers' and Rays' FO personnel as possible, along with as many of the people from their departments that they can hire.

Every year, the Dodgers, Rays, and elite teams like them seemingly pick guys that no organization wants and make them into solid contributors.  Look at Trayce Thompson - nobody wanted him at all, and now suddenly he's raking for the Dodgers.  How is Tyler Anderson suddenly a great pitcher?  Who is Evan Phillips and how has he retired 29 consecutive hitters?  Etc, etc..

I would love to see us just invest whatever money Arte intends to spend on building out FO infrastructure.  We already have the star players we need.  We just need to start finding solid contributors for cheap in the same way that these elite teams do.

Angels FO personnel the Angels hire from those teams would immediately suffer some kind of injury that would render them useless.