2022-23 offseason, what you expect to see vs what you hope

[mmc]

This offseason is going to be absolutely crucial to both the long and short term success of the club.  Trout is starting to show signs of decline, and Ohtani is only guaranteed to be here another year.  There's a very good chance this could be our last chance to win with the group of players we have now, before we bottom out and have seasons comparable or worse to this one, a step down from the 4 preceding it.  They're really going to have to make sure they play this right.  With that said, I'm curious how you guys all see this play out.  

[mmc]

Personally I want to see us rebuild because I think our window has been slammed shut and we're much better off just pulling the trigger on it now when we can get actual value for Ohtani in a trade.  I don't think we will though (both this offseason and ever), I think it will unfortunately be more of the same.  I don't think Arte will all of a sudden be interested in spending to the tax when the team is coming off likely their worst season in some time, and I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe Minasian will really shake up the roster in any meaningful way.

[TroutField]

Unfortunately Arte has showed us over the last 10 years what the payroll limit is and that staying within that budget is more important than winning. Eppler basically showed us what the hard cap is and that comes straight from Arte. I get that Moreno is not cheap and has paid players substantial amounts of money. But I stilll haven’t seen him care more about winning than the payroll figure, because he has the money to go crazy and make this team at least respectable.
 

I don’t see them being competitive until the team is sold, he makes way too many decisions on a whim and has way too much say in the baseball operations.
Even down to firing Ausmus and brining in Maddon, only for that to backfire. Decision after decision goes wrong, dating back to the Tony Reagins day. The only constant has been Moreno.  
 

[Duren, Duren]

With Perry still relatively new I think Arte still gives him time to follow whatever plan he's already engaged on. Mostly incremental changes and improvement of the farm system. Maybe some low or mid level trades and/or signings. Hoping the farm system starts graduating a few of the better prospects onto the major league roster.

They probably feel burned by the Rendon signing, so I wouldn't think that they'll dive into the big name pool at this stage. 

Ohtani's status is going to be a distracting soap opera next season. It will be like he's auditioning for every team. And there will be rumors on a daily basis. Not necessarily intentional on his part, but it's just the way the media works.

that is the big domino that will really determine the direction of the team. Ideally something is worked out in the off season. If so, it will provide a positive spin and some optimism. Mind you, that is what we thought about the Trout signing. 

 

 

[Angelsfan1984]

i think If perry wants to make a name for himself he's going to need to sign Ohtani and find a way to get rendon off the books. 

[mmc]

7 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

i think If perry wants to make a name for himself he's going to need to sign Ohtani and find a way to get rendon off the books. 

I just don’t think moving Rendon is possible, the Padres have been trying to move Hosmer for years and he makes way less money and doesn’t struggle with injuries 

[Clark W Griswold]

Re-sign Ohtani, trade for Soto and sign Judge as a FA.
I just fixed the offense for only a billion or so dollars.  Spend around 50 million more to shore up the pitching and they might contend for the third WC spot next year.

Come on Arte, pay up!

[Taylor]

Expecting the status quo, hoping for Arte to open his checkbook. I honestly don't think he cares that much anymore if the Angels are successful.

[79CAAman]

I don't think I would have faith in perry to be involved in any offseason rebuilding of this team.  The guy has an eye for baseball talent?  If so, where is it?  If Arte is not willing to sell the team, I think he needs to bring in a whole new staff to head his organization.  At the very least, he needs an entirely new coaching staff.  This team needs significant changes in its philosophy, so why not bring in a guy like Derek Jeter into the organization?  The guy is a winner and did well with the limited resources available in Miami.  Drastic?  Yes, but we don't really want some of the same.  Maybe this shows Ohtani the Angels are serious about building a winning team.  

[Angelsfan1984]

4 minutes ago, 79CAAman said:

I don't think I would have faith in perry to be involved in any offseason rebuilding of this team.  The guy has an eye for baseball talent?  If so, where is it?  If Arte is not willing to sell the team, I think he needs to bring in a whole new staff to head his organization.  At the very least, he needs an entirely new coaching staff.  This team needs significant changes in its philosophy, so why not bring in a guy like Derek Jeter into the organization?  The guy is a winner and did well with the limited resources available in Miami.  Drastic?  Yes, but we don't really want some of the same.  Maybe this shows Ohtani the Angels are serious about building a winning team.  

Did well in Miami? Wtf? They were a good will store during his time with the team 

[79CAAman]

He had little to nothing to work with.  The first thing they had to do was drastically cut payroll.  Big difference between ownership in Miami and here in Anaheim.  

[Angelsfan1984]

40 minutes ago, mmc said:

I just don’t think moving Rendon is possible, the Padres have been trying to move Hosmer for years and he makes way less money and doesn’t struggle with injuries 

In theory rendon is a much better player…so far not in reality lol. 
 

I’d rather pay a portion of his contract than let it burn up on the IL year after year. 

[Angelsfan1984]

Just now, 79CAAman said:

He had little to nothing to work with.  The first thing they had to do was drastically cut payroll.  Big difference between ownership in Miami and here in Anaheim.  

So explain to me how he would be a good fit? So far you’re doing a bang up job selling it. The angels have an ass ton of money tied up on the top 2-3 guys on the team. His budget would be the same or less than it was in Miami. 
 

jeter the player and jeter the GM are universes apart.

[mmc]

3 minutes ago, 79CAAman said:

He had little to nothing to work with.  The first thing they had to do was drastically cut payroll.  Big difference between ownership in Miami and here in Anaheim.  

You could say the same thing about Minasian.  I don’t know what makes people think they just need a different GM and all of a sudden this team will start acquiring a bunch of talent, the franchise will never truly change how it’s ran no matter who gets hired/fired

[Second Base]

They'll approach it the same as every other off-season by Minasian and Eppler. They have a certain amount coming off the books and a certain amount to spend on free agent or trade targets. 

Nothing I've seen suggests any Angels GM is suddenly going to figure out how to make this team win. 

My guess is fans will dream of Correa and get Duffy (understand I'm not talking specific players but caliber of players). 

[79CAAman]

1 minute ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

So explain to me how he would be a good fit? So far you’re doing a bang up job selling it. The angels have an ass ton of money tied up on the top 2-3 guys on the team. His budget would be the same or less than it was in Miami. 
 

jeter the player and jeter the GM are universes apart.

Yes, the guy had to cut payroll and had to trade proven big-league talent for minor league talent that takes time to develop.  Yes, he traded away some huge names like Stanton and Realmuto, but he's brought in some talent (Alcantara, Jesus Sanchez).  I can't comment on the budget he had at Miami, it had to have been much lower than a budget he would  have in Anaheim.

[Angelsjunky]

3 minutes ago, Second Base said:

My guess is fans will dream of Trea Turner, Xander Bogaerts or Dansby Swanson and get Kike Hernandez or Didi Gregorius

FIxed that for you.

[eligrba]

A change in organizational philosophy in all aspects of the game.  Currently, nothing is working and staying the course will only ensure what is already happening will continue.  At this point, I'm not sure new players would make a difference.

[Docwaukee]

I know what I'd like to see and for probably the third year in a row, I have no idea what they're going to do.  

 

[Angelsjunky]

I secretly thought that Arte was going to surprise us all and open up the purse-strings for Carlos Correa. I still think he could do something similar, but this time for Bogaerts, Turner, or maybe Swanson. Do I think it likely? No. Possible? Yes. 

More likely they'll bulk up the depth - bring in a Kike Hernandez or Didi Gregorius, and probably (hopefully) a better platoon partner for Stassi - maybe Zunino or Barnes or, if we're lucky, Wilson Contreras. Or maybe take a flyer on Gary Sanchez. Craft a better bench.

In fact, I think a solid second catcher is an underrated need for the Angels. We talk about the middle infield, the second half of the rotation, and the bullpen, but not only is Stassi prone to miss substantial time due to injury, he's probably better in a true platoon. So I expect Minasian (if he's smart) to not just plug in another Suzuki, but go after a bonafide platoon partner for Stassi, or even--if he signed Contreras--make Stassi the weak half of a platoon.

The problem of lineup depth is not as easily solved as it sounds. To get good players, you have to promise them playing time, but the real need--aside from a starting infield job--is the bench and platoon roles. The Angels' depth sucked this year because their bench group sucked and they had very little in AAA to plug holes, when all the injuries started. So Minasian needs to dive deeper and make smarter signings, and even hope he comes up with a Muncy-esque clean peanut.

As for the pitching staff, I assume that Ohtani, Sandoval, and Detmers are locks for the Opening Day rotation. I think Suarez will probably be transitioned back to the bullpen where he seems to do better, and the Angels may go in-house options for one spot and depth starters, which means Minasian will be shopping for two starters.

I don't think the Angels will do much by way of the bullpen. Minasian has two bad years in a row of reliever acquisitions, and may go with what they have and hope some prospects emerge to take on bullpen roles. That said, he may look for a single high-octane reliever to bring some contrast to the smoke and mirrors guys.

For the first question, I voted for the second option - both because I'm sick of this shit, but also because I really want Ohtani to stay, and I think the only way that happens is if the Angels are competitive next year.

For the second, I voted for retool but that was before fully reading the status quo. I think somewhere in-between. 

The other thing to remember is that probably the most important factor is attendance. I haven't checked, but if attendance is down--and thus profit--as it was last year compared to 2019, then Arte will want more of a shake-up. His bottom line is, well, the bottom line. He wants to keep Ohtani because he sells tickets, so will pay what it requires. But he might also give MInasian a few more bucks to work with, and push him to be more bold about trades. That's why I wouldn't be suprrised if one of Adell, Marsh, Ward, or Walsh is elsewhere by Opening Day of 2023. I wouldn't even be surprised if one of Ward or Walsh is gone by August.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Angelsjunky

[Stradling]

Well if Arte truly believes he will go over the tax for the right guy, Shohei is the right guy.  

What I expect is a Shohei extension while putting some other pieces in place to make us more competitive while we wait for our pitching in the minors to mature.  

Something like Shohei extension, if Syndergaard is still a halo (which he shouldn’t be) an extension to him,  Dansby signing, sign one reliever to a one year deal. Go into the season with an expectation that the pen is what they expected them to be this year.  That increase the annual payroll by about $25 million or so.  

Hell, I don’t even know what they will do in the next 12 days, I wouldn’t be surprised with a Syndergaard trade and a trade to bring back one of the two premium starters on the market for next year.

[mmc]

21 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I secretly thought that Arte was going to surprise us all and open up the purse-strings for Carlos Correa. I still think he could do something similar, but this time for Bogaerts, Turner, or maybe Swanson. Do I think it likely? No. Possible? Yes. 

More likely they'll bulk up the depth - bring in a Kike Hernandez or Didi Gregorius, and probably (hopefully) a better platoon partner for Stassi - maybe Zunino or Barnes or, if we're lucky, Wilson Contreras. Or maybe take a flyer on Gary Sanchez. Craft a better bench.

In fact, I think a solid second catcher is an underrated need for the Angels. We talk about the middle infield, the second half of the rotation, and the bullpen, but not only is Stassi prone to miss substantial time due to injury, he's probably better in a true platoon. So I expect Minasian (if he's smart) to not just plug in another Suzuki, but go after a bonafide platoon partner for Stassi, or even--if he signed Contreras--make Stassi the weak half of a platoon.

The problem of lineup depth is not as easily solved as it sounds. To get good players, you have to promise them playing time, but the real need--aside from a starting infield job--is the bench and platoon roles. The Angels' depth sucked this year because their bench group sucked and they had very little in AAA to plug holes, when all the injuries started. So Minasian needs to dive deeper and make smarter signings, and even hope he comes up with a Muncy-esque clean peanut.

As for the pitching staff, I assume that Ohtani, Sandoval, and Detmers are locks for the Opening Day rotation. I think Suarez will probably be transitioned back to the bullpen where he seems to do better, and the Angels may go in-house options for one spot and depth starters, which means Minasian will be shopping for two starters.

I don't think the Angels will do much by way of the bullpen. Minasian has two bad years in a row of reliever acquisitions, and may go with what they have and hope some prospects emerge to take on bullpen roles. That said, he may look for a single high-octane reliever to bring some contrast to the smoke and mirrors guys.

For the first question, I voted for the second option - both because I'm sick of this shit, but also because I really want Ohtani to stay, and I think the only way that happens is if the Angels are competitive next year.

For the second, I voted for retool but that was before fully reading the status quo. I think somewhere in-between. 

The other thing to remember is that probably the most important factor is attendance. I haven't checked, but if attendance is down--and thus profit--as it was last year compared to 2019, then Arte will want more of a shake-up. His bottom line is, well, the bottom line. He wants to keep Ohtani because he sells tickets, so will pay what it requires. But he might also give MInasian a few more bucks to work with, and push him to be more bold about trades. That's why I wouldn't be suprrised if one of Adell, Marsh, Ward, or Walsh is elsewhere by Opening Day of 2023. I wouldn't even be surprised if one of Ward or Walsh is gone by August.

1,542,540 through 49 home games, looks like no 3 million this year

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, mmc said:

I just don’t think moving Rendon is possible, the Padres have been trying to move Hosmer for years and he makes way less money and doesn’t struggle with injuries 

I agree plus Hosmer has been healthy

[Angels 1961]

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Well if Arte truly believes he will go over the tax for the right guy, Shohei is the right guy.  

What I expect is a Shohei extension while putting some other pieces in place to make us more competitive while we wait for our pitching in the minors to mature.  

Something like Shohei extension, if Syndergaard is still a halo (which he shouldn’t be) an extension to him,  Dansby signing, sign one reliever to a one year deal. Go into the season with an expectation that the pen is what they expected them to be this year.  That increase the annual payroll by about $25 million or so.  

Hell, I don’t even know what they will do in the next 12 days, I wouldn’t be surprised with a Syndergaard trade and a trade to bring back one of the two premium starters on the market for next year.

The question with Ohtani is does he want to stay here.

[UndertheHalo]

I’d like to see them dramatically increase payroll and go for it.  The main part of that being an Ohtani extension.  As far as what I think they’ll do.  I think they’ll try and get Ohtani to re sign and it might get ugly because I really doubt Moreno will do anything other then that.  Moreno supposedly promised Trout a serious push to make the team better and that still has never materialized.  So I’m not sure why Ohtani would just accept another “commitment” like that.  Anyway they may trade him at that point and it’ll probably be the shittiest day for Angels that a lot of us have seen. Hopefully it’s not like that but I don’t really have high hopes. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by UndertheHalo