Rosenthal's article about Ohtani's extension

[mmc]

What to do about Shohei Ohtani long-term: A complicated equation for the Angels.

 

[mmc]

The Angels, according to sources, had informal discussions regarding an extension for Ohtani late in spring training with his agent, Nez Balelo of CAA. Club officials expressed an understanding that to sign Ohtani, they would need to award him a record average salary, surpassing Max Scherzer’s $43.3 million. But the Angels, at least at that time, were reluctant to make the kind of long-term offer Ohtani almost certainly would command on the open market, sources said. Ohtani, coming off an MVP season, was at the peak of his value, much like Judge is right now with the Yankees. The talks never gained traction.

[Jay]

What can we get for a half-year of Ohtani?

[Stradling]

I’ll go on record to say I would not give him a record breaking contract, at least not long term.  Would I entertain a 5-6 year deal at $45 million a year if I was Arte, probably.  But I probably wouldn’t be looking at a 10 year deal at $40+ million per year.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

What can we get for a half-year of Ohtani?

Are you thinking if we trade him next trade deadline?  You could probably get a top 100 prospects and a couple of other prospects.  

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

Why wait till next deadline if you know it's not going to work out trade him in the off-season the Haul you would he back would be crazy 

It’s still only one year, unless you trade him at this deadline which I highly doubt they do.  My guess is you can get just about as much at the deadline as you can to start the year because teams get desperate at the deadline.  

[floplag]

They should know now, if they can or plan to keep him.  I suspect they do know the answer to that, which was probably the point of those informal conversations.
If they want to, the question really is will they.  Do we even want another top dollar deal when the ones we have appear to be preventing us from doing other things?   If Arte isnt willing to go to near lux tax payroll levels, which to date he has not been, then signing him means that much less to fill other spots. 120M to three players?  That doesnt leave much at the trough if hes only going to allow another 50-60.
If they dont or cant, then honestly, barring a monster turn around in the next 30 days, you have to deal him now.
Dont misunderstand me, i dont want to deal him, i want  Arte to extend him and still be willing to do more, but i really dont think thats realistic, does anyone here think he would do that when he hasnt to date?
Regardless, now is the time to make that decision, if were willing to go to those heights or not, and act on it to get max value in trade or lock him the heck up, if he even wants to be locked up.  

[mmc]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It’s still only one year, unless you trade him at this deadline which I highly doubt they do.  My guess is you can get just about as much at the deadline as you can to start the year because teams get desperate at the deadline.  

Sure except you run the risk of him getting hurt

[m0nkey]

Angels career over

[ukyah]

i'm pretty primed to bail the angels anyway, so go ahead and trade everyone.

[Stradling]

43 minutes ago, mmc said:

Sure except you run the risk of him getting hurt

Yes and you run the chance of the Angels competing next year.  

[Stradling]

52 minutes ago, floplag said:

They should know now, if they can or plan to keep him.  I suspect they do know the answer to that, which was probably the point of those informal conversations.
If they want to, the question really is will they.  Do we even want another top dollar deal when the ones we have appear to be preventing us from doing other things?   If Arte isnt willing to go to near lux tax payroll levels, which to date he has not been, then signing him means that much less to fill other spots. 120M to three players?  That doesnt leave much at the trough if hes only going to allow another 50-60.
If they dont or cant, then honestly, barring a monster turn around in the next 30 days, you have to deal him now.
Dont misunderstand me, i dont want to deal him, i want  Arte to extend him and still be willing to do more, but i really dont think thats realistic, does anyone here think he would do that when he hasnt to date?
Regardless, now is the time to make that decision, if were willing to go to those heights or not, and act on it to get max value in trade or lock him the heck up, if he even wants to be locked up.  

They are 3.5 games back from a wild card and their schedule gets much easier moving forward.  So they aren’t trading him now.  

[UndertheHalo]

I think this is worse than trading trout.  At least you trade trout and that’s it.  You can rebuild.  You trade Ohtani and you still have Trout for a while and Rendon a couple more years.  The Angels probably will not be able to replace Ohtani in the near term so they get worse.  There are ton of reasons to back up the brinks truck for Shohei imo. On the field and off.    Arte has to open up the purse strings.  If he’s not going to do it then he shouldn’t have bothered with Trout and Rendon.  If Ohtani wants to be an Angel and if he wants to try and win here then he has to consider what getting 480 or 500 million dollars is going to do as well.  

Edited June 14, 2022 by UndertheHalo

[Stradling]

I’m about to sound like an asshole, but if Shohei wants to win, then he has to hold some of the blame for the team not being in a playoff spot right now. He was awful during that 14 game losing streak.  Without the losing streak, even if they just played bad, they would hold a playoff spot right now.  They lost half of those 14 games by 1 run.  If Ohtani or Trout showed up at all this team wins 4 or 5 of those games.  This doesn’t even mention Ohtani struggling on the mound where he gave up 9 runs in 9 innings in two of his most recent starts.

[AngelsFaninGA]

Meh. It's not like he's the difference between us being contenders and not

[Sully151]

Not saying they should do it, but if they trade Ohtani for some pitchers and a middle infielder with power. Then, you call up Adell, rotate the current outfield between the field and DH, saving some wear and tear on Trout, and hope a couple of the dozen pitchers they picked up in the draft pan out. The Angels save some cash and go through a mini rebuild. 
 

Trout wanted to be an Angel for life because of either loyalty or the relaxed atmosphere. I am pretty sure the Angels knows that.
 

I am not sure Ohtani feels the same. If they are out of it at the trade deadline, I think the Angels need to have a serious sit down with Ohtani. If they can’t agree, then they need to think about moving him.

[gurn67]

It would be interesting to know how much revenue goes directly to the Angels just from Japan by having Ohtani on the team. That revenue is tied directly to him. He leaves, so does that revenue.

Is it a million a year? Is it 10 million? More?

If it's a large number, it doesn't help when dealing with luxury tax issues, but it does help with what you're actually paying him. Other teams will obviously factor that in as well.

 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

They are 3.5 games back from a wild card and their schedule gets much easier moving forward.  So they aren’t trading him now.  

That winning strategy thats worked so well for how many years now? 
Youre probably right, if for no reason other than revenue over anything on field, but if this was any random American born player that doesnt have that attached, do you say the same?
3.5 back isnt a lot till you realize that also 3.6 further back than it would have been last youre so the expanded field is the only reason were that close. 
Can they go on a run as good as the bad was, sure, but are they showing any signs of that to you?
Lets win a damned series before we start talking about the wild card again shall we. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

That winning strategy thats worked so well for how many years now? 
Youre probably right, if for no reason other than revenue over anything on field, but if this was any random American born player that doesnt have that attached, do you say the same?
3.5 back isnt a lot till you realize that also 3.6 further back than it would have been last youre so the expanded field is the only reason were that close. 
Can they go on a run as good as the bad was, sure, but are they showing any signs of that to you?
Lets win a damned series before we start talking about the wild card again shall we. 

Yes of course I say the same regardless of his ethnicity.  As for can they go on a run, I mean, why not?  They were 10+ games over .500 at one point, zero reason they can’t be there again.  

[notherhalo]

should have traded him for Wander Franco

[Angels 1961]

59 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’m about to sound like an asshole, but if Shohei wants to win, then he has to hold some of the blame for the team not being in a playoff spot right now. He was awful during that 14 game losing streak.  Without the losing streak, even if they just played bad, they would hold a playoff spot right now.  They lost half of those 14 games by 1 run.  If Ohtani or Trout showed up at all this team wins 4 or 5 of those games.  This doesn’t even mention Ohtani struggling on the mound where he gave up 9 runs in 9 innings in two of his most recent starts.

Bullpen lost 5 games giving up late inn leads.

[floplag]

24 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yes of course I say the same regardless of his ethnicity.  As for can they go on a run, I mean, why not?  They were 10+ games over .500 at one point, zero reason they can’t be there again.  

For the record it isnt about his ethnicity, its about the added revenue he creates that unique to most other players.
Could they, sure, will they... remains to be seen. 

[UndertheHalo]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I’m about to sound like an asshole, but if Shohei wants to win, then he has to hold some of the blame for the team not being in a playoff spot right now. He was awful during that 14 game losing streak.  Without the losing streak, even if they just played bad, they would hold a playoff spot right now.  They lost half of those 14 games by 1 run.  If Ohtani or Trout showed up at all this team wins 4 or 5 of those games.  This doesn’t even mention Ohtani struggling on the mound where he gave up 9 runs in 9 innings in two of his most recent starts.

You don’t sound like an asshole.  You’re right. Part of the Angels story is that their stars fail at the worst times possible. 

[Angels 1961]

I've been the on saying Angels need a reboot. If this becomes 7th losing season I'm trading Ohtani this off season. You cannot trade Rendon and only way Trout is traded if he ask to be. Halos cannot afford contract Ohtani will demand and deserve. Angels have too many needs. Only a few teams could afford an Ohtani deal and one up them is our beloved team up the 5 fwy. If he is traded I would love him to go to SF or SD. The DH spot would be free for Trout, Rendon and others. If anyone of us were Ohtani I think we would try FA. 

[Angels 1961]

59 minutes ago, Sully151 said:

Not saying they should do it, but if they trade Ohtani for some pitchers and a middle infielder with power. Then, you call up Adell, rotate the current outfield between the field and DH, saving some wear and tear on Trout, and hope a couple of the dozen pitchers they picked up in the draft pan out. The Angels save some cash and go through a mini rebuild. 
 

Trout wanted to be an Angel for life because of either loyalty or the relaxed atmosphere. I am pretty sure the Angels knows that.
 

I am not sure Ohtani feels the same. If they are out of it at the trade deadline, I think the Angels need to have a serious sit down with Ohtani. If they can’t agree, then they need to think about moving him.

I agree