Irony: Dipoto was right about Taylor Ward

[Second Base]

Forever etched in my mind was the celebration that came before the Angels selected Taylor Ward in the first round. As if the front office was on pins and needles hoping he would fall to them, despite projections pegging him as more of a second, third or fourth round pick. The arrogance of it always shocked me. 

They felt Ward was an athletic, defense first catcher that would hit for power and had a short path to the majors. 

Things didn't turn out the way Dipoto thought, or anyone for that matter. Despite his athleticism, Ward was less polished as a catcher than anticipated, and his bat would take longer to develop into even an average hitting catcher. Furthermore, pitchers didn't particularly like throwing to him. I have no further detail than that.

It seemed as if he was a bust. 

Even when the next GM, Billy Eppler mentioned that Ward would be shifting to third base, it was met with ridicule. A bad hitting catcher was moving over to third base, where offensive expectations were considerably higher. It would make sense if this is where the story of Taylor Ward as a baseball player ended. 

But then the shock came. 

Taylor Ward hit, and he hit a ton. Turns out, getting him out from behind the plate was the best thing that happened in his career because now, he could focus on hitting and sort of pick up 3B as he goes. In one year, Ward went from organizational depth fodder to making his major league debut. He wasn't successful at the plate, and he was simply passable at third base and first base for short periods of time. 

Still, if this was the end of the story, it was a happy ending. At least Ward had made it to the majors and he'd probably spend a few years bouncing between AAA and the majors in a couple different organizations. It's further than most prospects get. 

Yet here we are in 2022, seven years since he was drafted, and Taylor Ward is now a starting outfielder for the Angels, hitting typically anywhere between second and fifth in the lineup. The Angels believe his bat has enough value that he's going to impact the game, and he's good enough to send their golden prospects, Jo Adell and Brandon Marsh to the bench. The Angels are high enough on his defensive prowess that they haven't hesitated in deploying him in CF. And he's faster than anyone expected too. 

Taylor Ward had become a legitimate, top or middle of the order starting outfielder. And with that, DIPOTO WAS RIGHT. 

No, Ward isn't the athletic power hitting catcher that could be ready for a starting position in the majors in two years, like Dipoto thought. He's instead looking like a potential stud in the outfield, after seven years. But it doesn't change the fact that Dipoto and his front office were correct in celebrating this pick. 

And there's the irony. We always used the video of that celebration as a way of ridiculing Dipoto and his terrible draft record (and it was awful). Like the Mission Accomplished banner behind George W. Bush, for those that are into politics. Maybe the video of that celebration could be perceived in more of a justified context now. 

[Taylor]

Career negative 0.3 bWAR in 502 ABs isn't much to celebrate. Perhaps he'll take off and start hitting closer to his numbers when he blew up in the minors, but for now he's average at best. I'd rather have Adell and Marsh starting every day with Ward as a utility guy.

[Vlad27Trout27]

I might be wrong but didn't Dipoto step down before the draft even began??

Anyhow, I knew we should have kept Ward once the Dodgers started calling us about him and were willing to included a soon to be top 100 propsects. Thank you Arte. 

I think Ward is probably a 270ish guy 330ish obp with 15-20 Pop!

[AngelsLakersFan]

Ward is off to a nice start and looking to establish himself as a legitimate major league player, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here, he has a career 0.6fWar compiled almost entirely in his first 6 games of this season. 

At 28 he may be establishing a new level of performance, but it's far more likely that he will continue to be a marginal major league player. It's certainly far too early to see him as much more than that. But hopefully you're right, and so far this season he's looked great.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

I might be wrong but didn't Dipoto step down before the draft even began??

Anyhow, I knew we should have kept Ward once the Dodgers started calling us about him and were willing to included a soon to be top 100 propsects. Thank you Arte. 

I think Ward is probably a 270ish guy 330ish obp with 15-20 Pop!

No it was a Dipoto pick 

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Ward is off to a nice start and looking to establish himself as a legitimate major league player, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here, he has a career 0.6fWar compiled almost entirely in his first 6 games of this season. 

At 28 he may be establishing a new level of performance, but it's far more likely that he will continue to be a marginal major league player. It's certainly far too early to see him as much more than that. But hopefully you're right, and so far this season he's looked great.

I think he has some chance to develop into a pretty good major leaguer.  But yes, his development has been a long and winding road as they say.  It’s not like the Angels saw where’d he’d end up.  They had him as Scotty says as almost an entirely different player than he is today.  That doesn’t really speak well to the angels development process.  They’re just lucky he got where he is. 

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

I might be wrong but didn't Dipoto step down before the draft even began??

Anyhow, I knew we should have kept Ward once the Dodgers started calling us about him and were willing to included a soon to be top 100 propsects. Thank you Arte. 

I think Ward is probably a 270ish guy 330ish obp with 15-20 Pop!

That was the following draft.

Ward was all Diponer.

[UndertheHalo]

I will say that to the angels credit - they at least allowed him to figure something else out.  Even if they didn’t really know wtf to do with him. 

[Second Base]

Ok so maybe I should have prefaced with this.....Hot Take: I think Taylor Ward is going to end up being similar to Wil Myers for the Padres. Myers was also a catching prospect, whose offense outgrew the position in AA. 

Myers developed into a decent but overpaid 20/20 outfielder, and I think Ward had a shot at being similar. 

[UndertheHalo]

The same fairly concerning process is going on with Matt Thaiss. 

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, Second Base said:

Ok so maybe I should have prefaced with this.....Hot Take: I think Taylor Ward is going to end up being similar to Wil Myers for the Padres. Myers was also a catching prospect, whose offense outgrew the position in AA. 

Myers developed into a decent but overpaid 20/20 outfielder, and I think Ward had a shot at being similar. 

Lol oh my god.  

[jsnpritchett]

[Second Base]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

The same fairly concerning process is going on with Matt Thaiss. 

Maybe in reverse. Thaiss was drafted as a first baseman, logged done time there, and at second base and third base, even some corner outfield. But his ultimate position could end up at catcher. 

[UndertheHalo]

2 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Maybe in reverse. Thaiss was drafted as a first baseman, logged done time there, and at second base and third base, even some corner outfield. But his ultimate position could end up at catcher. 

Ya I’m not talking about the positions specifically I’m talking about how they don’t seem to know what to do with what they have. 

[Stradling]

I look at it completely different. I look at this is a kudos to the Angels development process. They took a flame out catching prospect that couldn’t lead a staff and turned him into a slightly above average outfielder who can do a little bit of everything. 
One regime drafted him, and the next two developed him. 

[Taylor]

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I look at it completely different. I look at this is a kudos to the Angels development process. They took a flame out catching prospect that couldn’t lead a staff and turned him into a slightly above average outfielder who can do a little bit of everything. 
One regime drafted him, and the next two developed him. 

Being able to play multiple positions is a plus, but it's still to be determined whether he can be anything but a replacement level player.

I like the dude. He has a great first name and went to high school with my wife. I'd love to see him succeed. I just don't see it yet.

[Second Base]

7 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Being able to play multiple positions is a plus, but it's still to be determined whether he can be anything but a replacement level player.

I like the dude. He has a great first name and went to high school with my wife. I'd love to see him succeed. I just don't see it yet.

The scout in me sees a short, simple path to the ball, a swing that goes through the ball rather than to it, a swing that generates loft and backspin and the way the ball jumps off his bat. 

I see an unexpectedly good defender who is also faster than you'd think. 

As long as he's healthy and gets the opportunity, I think Ward is going to be a tier just below all-star. He'll be a good starting outfielder for a half decade. 

And the really interesting part is if I'm right, what that means for Marsh, Adell, Adams and any other outfield prospect we have. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Second Base

[AngelsLakersFan]

12 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I look at it completely different. I look at this is a kudos to the Angels development process. They took a flame out catching prospect that couldn’t lead a staff and turned him into a slightly above average outfielder who can do a little bit of everything. 
One regime drafted him, and the next two developed him. 

Ultimately you draft talent and assume that your development process will mold that talent into a useful player. I think it speaks poorly to the Angels initial evaluators who saw him as a defensive first catcher who ended up unable to adequately play the position. At the same time it speaks well to those same evaluators who saw the talent and work ethic in him that would end up making him a major leaguer.

It's funny how you can be right and wrong at the same time. The team drafted him above where he was expected to go because they saw that later talent in him that others didn't. At the same time, they were all collectively wrong about his future at catcher. 

[Angel Oracle]

22 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Maybe in reverse. Thaiss was drafted as a first baseman, logged done time there, and at second base and third base, even some corner outfield. But his ultimate position could end up at catcher. 

To be fair, Thaiss was a catcher in college at UVA.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[AngelsLakersFan]

4 minutes ago, Second Base said:

The scout in me sees a short, simple path to the ball, a swing that goes through the ball rather than to it, a swing that generates loft and backspin and the way the ball jumps off his bat. 

I see an unexpectedly good defender who is also faster than you'd think. 

As long as he's healthy and gets the opportunity, I think Ward is going to be a tier just below all-star. He'll be a good starting outfielder for a half decade. 

And the really interesting part is if I'm right, what that means for Marsh, Adell, Adams and any other outfield prospect we have. 

They should consider giving him some reps at first base against lefties. I know I said this was a stupid idea when it was discussed with Upton, but as a former catcher and poor third basemen, he should be able to passably play first base.

[Revad]

3 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

They should consider giving him some reps at first base against lefties. I know I said this was a stupid idea when it was discussed with Upton, but as a former catcher and poor third basemen, he should be able to passably play first base.

At 1b I think he’d be at least as good as Duffy defensively plus get both Adell and Marsh more opportunities.

[UndertheHalo]

9 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Ultimately you draft talent and assume that your development process will mold that talent into a useful player. I think it speaks poorly to the Angels initial evaluators who saw him as a defensive first catcher who ended up unable to adequately play the position. At the same time it speaks well to those same evaluators who saw the talent and work ethic in him that would end up making him a major leaguer.

It's funny how you can be right and wrong at the same time. The team drafted him above where he was expected to go because they saw that later talent in him that others didn't. At the same time, they were all collectively wrong about his future at catcher. 

Agree but I also think it’s negative that it’s taken them (and him) 7 years to get to this point.  I don’t think that’s the mark of an efficient development process.  I think it’s a real and serious problem for the Angels.  And like I said above, and you also note here there is credit to be given for not giving up on him.  But there surely has to be a better way to deal with a guy like Taylor Ward.  The Angels should own those issues. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

I respect what Scotty is trying to say here tho.  It’s a story that is good.  Kudos to Ward and good for the Angels. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Agree but I also think it’s negative that it’s taken them (and him) 7 years to get to this point.  I don’t think that’s the mark of an efficient development process.  I think it’s a real and serious problem for the Angels.  And like I said above, and you also note here there is credit to be given for not giving up on him.  But there surely has to be a better way to deal with a guy like Taylor Ward.  The Angels should own those issues. 

Like I said, it's what happens when you are both right and wrong about a player at the same time. If they were all 'right' about him he'd have been a big league catcher 3 or 4 years ago, and if they were all wrong about him he'd be lost to minor league free agency last year. If they saw him as an outfielder initially someone else probably drafts him as a catcher before they get a chance, but if they did get him he'd probably have been established a couple years ago.

[Stradling]

I wonder how many players drafted after him will carve out a 5-10 year MLB career.