Official 2021-22 Hot Stove League Thread.

[wopphil]

18 hours ago, mmc said:

Would you guys do it?  (Yes I know this is nothing more than a fan proposal)

No. MacKenzie seems to have good potential, but that horrific homerun rate is too concerning. 

[totdprods]

I would make that trade. Adell has monster potential. McKenzie, as a pitcher, has plenty of risk. 

But fact of the matter is we still have sufficient OF talent between Trout and Marsh, potentially Adams, and we don't when it comes to frontline pitching. I'm not sure McKenzie is a true #1, but, he has a ceiling of at least a #2. We're still lacking too much in frontline pitching talent, and it's much harder/more expensive/riskier to acquire (either in FA, trade, or development) than finding a productive OF. 

Make this deal and sign a decent corner OF to a one or two year deal, and hope they at least give you an .800 OPS and solid defense. If Marsh develops alongside Trout, we'll be fine for the time being.

[Dtwncbad]

We are never going to hear about an Adell trade that people will be happy with.  Either the pitcher “isn’t good enough” or he is good enough but still gets rejected because “not enough years of control.”

 

[Blarg]

The posts above yours debunks what you are saying.

[greginpsca]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

I would make that trade. Adell has monster potential. McKenzie, as a pitcher, has plenty of risk. 

But fact of the matter is we still have sufficient OF talent between Trout and Marsh, potentially Adams, and we don't when it comes to frontline pitching. I'm not sure McKenzie is a true #1, but, he has a ceiling of at least a #2. We're still lacking too much in frontline pitching talent, and it's much harder/more expensive/riskier to acquire (either in FA, trade, or development) than finding a productive OF. 

Make this deal and sign a decent corner OF to a one or two year deal, and hope they at least give you an .800 OPS and solid defense. If Marsh develops alongside Trout, we'll be fine for the time being.

I don't see Adams as anything other than a 4th outfielder at best. He can't hit.

[Hubs]

While I'd like a young controllable arm like McKenzie, I'd probably not make this deal. As the lockout drags on, I've changed my mind on the trading one of the two young OF to no.

Unless it's Luis Castillo or German Marquez. Or someone better than that. Like Blake Snell. 

I'm on the Rodon bandwagon now. 

 

[Docwaukee]

4 hours ago, wopphil said:

No. MacKenzie seems to have good potential, but that horrific homerun rate is too concerning. 

you're killing me.  He's entering his age 24 season.  You had a mild argument about Detmers considering his limited minor league number were similar to his major league numbers.  But come on man.  

[Dtwncbad]

2 hours ago, Hubs said:

While I'd like a young controllable arm like McKenzie, I'd probably not make this deal. As the lockout drags on, I've changed my mind on the trading one of the two young OF to no.

Unless it's Luis Castillo or German Marquez. Or someone better than that. Like Blake Snell. 

I'm on the Rodon bandwagon now. 

 

Yes give me Rodon at this point.  He is clearly capable of being dominant.

[Hubs]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

you're killing me.  He's entering his age 24 season.  You had a mild argument about Detmers considering his limited minor league number were similar to his major league numbers.  But come on man.  

I like McKenzie, but I think it would take more than Adell in a 1 for 1 swap.

 

[totdprods]

3 hours ago, greginpsca said:

I don't see Adams as anything other than a 4th outfielder at best. He can't hit.

It’s not looking good for him, but I’m not ready to write him or Knowles off yet. Neither would really impact the team next year even if a best case scenario, but if things suddenly click, which for pure raw athletes as talented as them can happen, they could factor in as soon as ‘23. We’d just need Trout, Upton, Marsh, and one of the many decent outfield FA options remaining to get us through one more season.

[Inside Pitch]

15 hours ago, Blarg said:

McKenzie is a true beanpole at 165lbs and standing 6'5". Intriguing to me because he has yet to fill out his frame and still started 24 games last season. I know almost nothing about the guy but young pitching with club control is damn hard to find in trade.

@Inside Pitch any insights into this guy's potential to develop into a true mlb mid to top rotation pitcher?

Compare his numbers so far to those of Canning prior to last year -- I think people would be surprised at what they see.

So, if people want to trade a guy with stupid upside for a guy that struggles to pitch 5 innings due to command issues, I dunno what to say.  McKenzie has upside, he's also a slider curveball guy that struggles with command, to be honest it's the movement that has made him successful in the minors.  But his FB sits in the 92-93 range so, when he can't hit his spot he's basically 2021 Griffin Canning.

Stroman may not need to call his jeweler anytime soon.

[Inside Pitch]

If I was going to be trading Adell for someone, I'd be looking for a George Kirby type..  Someone who's capable of making his own outs and enough upside to consider a potential front half of the rotation guy.   Someone like the guy I wanted us to draft when we took Adams -- Logan Gilbert.

[greginpsca]

50 minutes ago, totdprods said:

It’s not looking good for him, but I’m not ready to write him or Knowles off yet. Neither would really impact the team next year even if a best case scenario, but if things suddenly click, which for pure raw athletes as talented as them can happen, they could factor in as soon as ‘23. We’d just need Trout, Upton, Marsh, and one of the many decent outfield FA options remaining to get us through one more season.

The lack of position player prospects at the upper levels of our farm is why i would not make that trade for McKenzie. We need more low cost/ controllable  position players to offset the contracts of Trout, Rendon, and soon to be Ohtani. I think the pitching side of the farm is on the verge of producing. But AAA & AA is looking pretty bare on the position player side. We can't keep using free agency to fill all our roster holes. To be successful, we can't keep going every season without payroll flexibility.

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

The lack of position player prospects at the upper levels of our farm is why i would not make that trade for McKenzie. We need more low cost/ controllable  position players to offset the contracts of Trout, Rendon, and soon to be Ohtani. I think the pitching side of the farm is on the verge of producing. But AAA & AA is looking pretty bare on the position player side. We can't keep using free agency to fill all our roster holes. To be successful, we can't keep going every season without payroll flexibility.

Cant agree with you more.  

[wopphil]

4 hours ago, Dochalo said:

you're killing me.  He's entering his age 24 season.  You had a mild argument about Detmers considering his limited minor league number were similar to his major league numbers.  But come on man.  

I didn’t say I wouldn’t love to have Mackenzie in the organization. I just said I wouldn’t give up a guy who by all accounts was a top 5 prospect in baseball just a couple seasons ago. And my reasoning for that is what, by all accounts, is a very bad homerun rate (which isn’t something that is easy to correct). 

And for the record,  I have serious concerns about Adell. But I liked the improvements he made last season and still think he could be a dynamic player. Mackenzie, on the other hand, may only have middle of the rotation potential (and that assumes he conquers homerun rate issue). 

Would you pull the trigger on a Mackenzie for Adell swap? 
 

[Revad]

1 hour ago, greginpsca said:

The lack of position player prospects at the upper levels of our farm is why i would not make that trade for McKenzie. We need more low cost/ controllable  position players to offset the contracts of Trout, Rendon, and soon to be Ohtani. I think the pitching side of the farm is on the verge of producing. But AAA & AA is looking pretty bare on the position player side. We can't keep using free agency to fill all our roster holes. To be successful, we can't keep going every season without payroll flexibility.

It’s as if there’s a layer of position prospects missing, which sucks.  But don’t forget all the young players who have made it up recently.  Walsh, Ward, Adell and Marsh could have major roles this year.

[eligrba4ever]

Barrier  broken: Rachel Balkovic has been appointed field manager of the Low A Tampa Tarpons, a New York Yankees team, effective whenever spring training starts. She had been a minor league fitness coach.

[tdawg87]

19 minutes ago, eligrba4ever said:

Barrier  broken: Rachel Balkovic has been appointed field manager of the Low A Tampa Tarpons, a New York Yankees team, effective whenever spring training starts. She had been a minor league fitness coach.

Is it a coincidence that their name sounds like "Tampons"?

Yes.

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, wopphil said:

I didn’t say I wouldn’t love to have Mackenzie in the organization. I just said I wouldn’t give up a guy who by all accounts was a top 5 prospect in baseball just a couple seasons ago. And my reasoning for that is what, by all accounts, is a very bad homerun rate (which isn’t something that is easy to correct). 

And for the record,  I have serious concerns about Adell. But I liked the improvements he made last season and still think he could be a dynamic player. Mackenzie, on the other hand, may only have middle of the rotation potential (and that assumes he conquers homerun rate issue). 

Would you pull the trigger on a Mackenzie for Adell swap? 
 

no I would not.  I like Mackenzie but I also see a pretty limited ceiling.  

[Docwaukee]

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

If I was going to be trading Adell for someone, I'd be looking for a George Kirby type..  Someone who's capable of making his own outs and enough upside to consider a potential front half of the rotation guy.   Someone like the guy I wanted us to draft when we took Adams -- Logan Gilbert.

I was bummed when he went ahead of us.  I wanted Gorman.  

[Inside Pitch]

38 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I was bummed when he went ahead of us.  I wanted Gorman.  

Either one would have been a better pick IMO.

[Docwaukee]

it's more fun when the off season is boring for other reasons. 

[Dtwncbad]

On 1/14/2022 at 10:50 PM, Dochalo said:

it's more fun when the off season is boring for other reasons. 

But will it be for the right reasons?

[Taylor]

On 1/12/2022 at 7:23 AM, wopphil said:

No. MacKenzie seems to have good potential, but that horrific homerun rate is too concerning. 

He'd fit in very well here.

[RallyMo]

We signed a top tier pitcher, correct? I know it had to be Ray or Scherzer. I just want to keep track of where we left off. I know we also signed some third graders from the international pool, too, so that helps for next year.