Roster Conversation

[Stradling]

I was hoping to create one place where we can discuss what types of moves we could make to round out the roster.  I know a lot of these types of posts happen inside of other threads, so when someone has a good idea or another type of idea it somewhat gets lost in those threads.  

 

[Stradling]

Obviously it isn’t difficult to see our roster is flawed, I’m not talking about the quality of the players on the roster, but the actual positions that these players play.  We currently, on a regular basis have a middle infielder playing an outfield position.  It has happened 5 or so times in the last 10 days, with Rengifo and before that Wong playing RF.  Simply put we need another outfielder.  We currently have no real back up first baseman, except for Gosselin and I guess Ward.  Ward is our only back up center fielder and don’t forget he really isn’t an outfielder, but is getting by on athleticism.  Oh and with the promotion of Quijada to the 25 man roster we now have 4 lefties in our pen, Claudio, Suarez, Quijada and Watson.  This is where I start.  I probably release Claudio, he is to redundant in our pen.  I bring up a 4th outfielder, and I don’t care if it is Jon Jay at this point.  We need someone that can play and not put us in a position to put another middle infielder out there.  We need a deeper bench so we don’t have two bench spots, three on a good day, when they let Ohtani pitch and hit.  Just my thoughts.  

[tdawg87]

The bullpen needs a complete overhaul. Bring up some guys from the minors (not Detmers or C-Rod) because this current bunch is a fucking dumpster fire that spreads to a children's hospital and kills 104 children and 19 doctors and nurses.

Sorry to be morbid (lol) but this fucking bullpen is so bad it makes me want to punt a toddler into the deep end of a pool.

That said, the defense and defensive alignments have been embarrassingly awful and it has affected the pitching in a way I didn't think was even possible. Heaney's meltdown is a perfect example. He obviously deserves blame, but it all started because of that stupid shit by Rengifo in RF.

Fuck. What do we do? 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

The bullpen needs a complete overhaul. Bring up some guys from the minors (not Detmers or C-Rod) because this current bunch is a fucking dumpster fire that spreads to a children's hospital and kills 104 children and 19 doctors and nurses.

Sorry to be morbid (lol) but this fucking bullpen is so bad it makes me want to punt a toddler into the deep end of a pool.

That said, the defense and defensive alignments have been embarrassingly awful and it has affected the pitching in a way I didn't think was even possible. Heaney's meltdown is a perfect example. He obviously deserves blame, but it all started because of that stupid shit by Rengifo in RF.

Fuck. What do we do? 

I think we start by playing people in positions they’ve played before.  So if you want Rengifo to play everyday then do something with Iglesias.  

[UndertheHalo]

I think we can see a pretty active effort to have guys that play multiples of positions.  I don’t hate the idea but you take the issues that come with it.  As far as the roster otherwise….what can you say ? Whatever the angels do acquisition wise, and development wise.  It’s not good.  Definitely seemingly worse than what other teams do.  We’ve had a handful of successes.  But mostly it seems like the Angels get players and don’t make them better.  Like the Giants pitcher yesterday.  I mean the Angels could have got him.  Would they have done the job the Giants have ? I doubt it.  Look at our pitchers.  I think this issue is applicable to whatever you want to talk about on the field.  Anyway what can they do ? Suck less ? I don’t have an answer to that.  I’ve kind of mentioned before that it seems like the Angels don’t invest in these development and scouting areas the same way that other teams do.  I don’t know what they can do otherwise.  Bullpen is what Tdawg is talking about.  Bullpens are always a shit shoot.  Perry can get some guys I guess and we’ll see.  Relievers are dime a dozen it seems like.  We have to do something with them once we have them. 
 

i guess the short version of what I’m saying is that the Angels as an organization - from the top down - suck at building and doing stuff with rosters.  This is the big thing that needs to be addressed. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by UndertheHalo

[eligrba]

32 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Bullpens are always a shit shoot

I think this is a true statement when concerning the Angels.  When looking at other teams, I am not convinced that this is true.

[eligrba]

Incoming Rant:

The Angels have been using prospects trying to cover up their incompetence in scouting and evaluation with major league players. 

1.  Using Rengifo to play outfield when he was used as a shortstop in AAA this year

2.  Using CRod too early

3.  Using Sandoval too early

4.  Using Suarez too early

5.  Using Adell too early

If the Angel scouts and evaluators truly believed each of these players were ready for major league play, then their incompetence goes further.

[UndertheHalo]

42 minutes ago, eligrba said:

I think this is a true statement when concerning the Angels.  When looking at other teams, I am not convinced that this is true.

No it’s true for everyone.  

Edited June 24, 2021 by UndertheHalo

[stormngt]

50 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I think we can see a pretty active effort to have guys that play multiples of positions.  I don’t hate the idea but you take the issues that come with it.  As far as the roster otherwise….what can you say ? Whatever the angels do acquisition wise, and development wise.  It’s not good.  Definitely seemingly worse than what other teams do.  We’ve had a handful of successes.  But mostly it seems like the Angels get players and don’t make them better.  Like the Giants pitcher yesterday.  I mean the Angels could have got him.  Would they have done the job the Giants have ? I doubt it.  Look at our pitchers.  I think this issue applicable to whatever you want to talk about on the field.  Anyway what can they do ? Suck less ? I don’t have answer to that.  I’ve kind of mentioned before that it seems like the Angels don’t invest in these development and scouting areas the same way that other teams do.  I don’t know what they can do otherwise.  Bullpen is what Tdawg is talking about.  Bullpens are always a shit shoot.  Perry can get some guys I guess and we’ll see.  Relievers are dime a dozen it seems like.  We have to do something with them once we have them. 
 

i guess the short version of what I’m saying is that the Angels as an organization - from the top down - suck at building and doing stuff with rosters.  This is the big thing that needs to be addressed. 

Relievers are a dime a dozen for most teams.  For the Angels they are the rarest commodity on earth.

[Revad]

There is no excuse for a middle infielder playing outfield.  Just saying.  When that’s an organizational strength?maybe Adell needs more time but don’t we have a good defensive outfielder out someplace?

[Lou]

Nobody bitched when Fletcher was the middle-infielder playing in the outfield.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

Nobody bitched when Fletcher was the middle-infielder playing in the outfield.

That's because he's a utility player. Rengifo is not.

[Lou]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Bring up some guys from the minors (not Detmers or C-Rod) because this current bunch is a fucking dumpster fire that spreads to a children's hospital and kills 104 children and 19 doctors and nurses.

Who is available? (I honestly have no idea)

[Lou]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

That's because he's a utility player. Rengifo is not.

Had he played in the outfield in the minors? 

[tdawg87]

Just now, Lou said:

Who is available? (I honestly have no idea)

I don't either lol

[stormngt]

I am good with one or two players being able to play multiple positions.  However it seems like they are doing that with everybody.

[Lou]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

I don't either lol

Call them up!

[nate]

Fixing pitching through free agency is pretty much impossible. Both starters and pen. You can maybe add one piece to shore things up, but you can't fix the gigantic gap the Angels have in both the rotation and the pen.

You can't even really do it via trade because the cost is going to be too high. It is the same crap we have been dealing with for a long time now. Angels stopped developing pitchers, either because any talent was traded away, bad draft strategy, bad org management, or all of the above.

It is another reason that it sucks the Angels have been in this playoff purgatory for so many years. Not high enough in the draft order to get the baseball equivalent of a sure thing, but also not making the playoffs.

IMO it still all goes back to the Reagins era and then Dipoto finishing it off. Any young pitching talent was traded away, and scouting and player development were "overhauled" to be much worse.

[Lou]

7 minutes ago, Lou said:

Had he played in the outfield in the minors? 

Looked it up. He hadn't. (Not at LMU either) 

In fact, he never played 3B either. 

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, eligrba said:

Incoming Rant:

The Angels have been using prospects trying to cover up their incompetence in scouting and evaluation with major league players. 

1.  Using Rengifo to play outfield when he was used as a shortstop in AAA this year

2.  Using CRod too early

3.  Using Sandoval too early

4.  Using Suarez too early

5.  Using Adell too early

If the Angel scouts and evaluators truly believed each of these players were ready for major league play, then their incompetence goes further.

#3, 4 and 5 are all Eppler decisions.  I like Eppler, but those are his decisions and are no longer relevant.  Rengifo in RF is a Maddon issue and a big one.  I have to believe that CRod is also a Maddon issue, but very well could be Minasian, because at the very least he signed off on it.  There were some quotes early in the year, or at the end of spring training about CRod and ending up being in the bullpen long term.  I thought those came from Maddon but it could have been Minasian.  

[greginpsca]

After the All Star break, start trading the guys that are on one year deals. Try to get AAA/ AA pitchers. Maybe we get a couple of keepers for next years pen, that we have control of.  Raisel Iglesias should be able to bring back a promising prospect. The guys they can't trade should be released to allow the guys in the minors to get a  "tryout" for next year. That would give the front office  a better idea of what they have in-house.  I would try to gauge interest in Upton, to see if they can open up more payroll. The Pujols money & any Upton money could go a long way in helping improving  the rotation and pen. And maybe a catcher. The only other spot would be ss.  I think the org likes Rengifo as a utility guy. So maybe another guy on a 1 year deal.  It is my understanding we have several guys that are Rule 5 eligible this coming off season. This route would also give the org a better idea of which guys they need to protect .

[Vlad27Trout27]

Personally i feel like it's too late to re-make that Bullpen, But there a few things that I would love to see on the Maangement side. 

1. better Managing! Plan and simple, Maddon has cost us a good amount of games.

2. Better use of Suarez! He has been out best arm in the Bullpen.  I would like him to go from being a long releiver, that pitches onces a day, to maybe a more important role!

3. I guess Bundy get one more start, But I would Seriously consider moving him into the Bullpen if he struggles again and replace him with barria 

4. Play Stassi more

5. Play more of a defenive defense. Put an Outfileder in the outfiled! 

6. add more hit and run. Seem like Maddon wants more buntgs, but I would like more hit-n-runs

 

[Angels 1961]

2022, I'm starting to hear cries of a rebuild. Walsh at 1B, Fletcher at 2B, Rendon ( with his non trade able contract at 3B. Will need a SS. Upton in LF, Trout in CF ( will be 31 and maybe last chance to trade him with his large contract) and RF Ward for now. C will be Stassi.  Ohtani, Canning, Sandoval, Barria, Suarez, Detmers, and Chris Rod as starters. Make trade for another starer or FA? Will need 8 pieces in pen, maybe Mayers coming back. Rengifo as utility he has not looked that bad in OF for someone still learning so you work with him. Bullpen biggest problem. Trade Adell for young starter maybe Manning from Detroit. Minasian smart maybe package Iglesias and Heaney or Cobb for a better prospect. Many teams in contention hurting for starters and bullpen help. Upton will have very little interest with that contract even if halos paid over half. Marsh everyone had high hopes for him cannot stay on the field. With all the young pitching I wonder if Maddon is right manager. 

[Angels 1961]

6 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

Personally i feel like it's too late to re-make that Bullpen, But there a few things that I would love to see on the Maangement side. 

1. better Managing! Plan and simple, Maddon has cost us a good amount of games.

2. Better use of Suarez! He has been out best arm in the Bullpen.  I would like him to go from being a long releiver, that pitches onces a day, to maybe a more important role!

3. I guess Bundy get one more start, But I would Seriously consider moving him into the Bullpen if he struggles again and replace him with barria 

4. Play Stassi more

5. Play more of a defenive defense. Put an Outfileder in the outfiled! 

6. add more hit and run. Seem like Maddon wants more buntgs, but I would like more hit-n-runs

 

The way Bundy has been pitching hard to trade him even to just dump rest of money owned this year.

[eligrba]

3 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Trout in CF ( will be 31 and maybe last chance to trade him with his large contract