Apparently the Angels are sellers (according to Fangraphs)

[Inside Pitch]

5 minutes ago, nate said:

Averaging almost 5 runs per game in that stretch helps.

Gee, maybe that's why I included the offensive stats to avoid some dolt incapable of steering off his narrative from ignoring the obvious.    

Congrats on still managing to do it.  

9 minutes ago, nate said:

Also their FIP improving shows that the pitchers pitched better, leading to easier outs.

Bless your heart.  You almost had it.

You had previously made it clear you don't understand how to read/use the stats you're quoting, no need to belabor the point.  LOL..  "leading to easier outs".

Fielding Independent Pitching converts a pitcher's three true outcomes into an earned run average-like number. The formula is (13*HR+3*(HBP+BB)-2*K)/IP, plus a constant (usually around 3.2) to put it on the same scale as earned run average.   Yes it's an indication the pitchers have performed better but it's not what's driving the improvement.

BaBIP is not part of the equation it involves things the pitcher cannot control which is why I made it a point to spot you the info and made it bold.   It's seemingly what is driving the improvement.

So again... the teams ability to turn batted balls into outs is STILL driving the pitching performance even as the actual defense has not really improved -- WHICH I pointed to in the post you responded to.   The teams SIERRA overall (3.96 14th in MLB) and over those 14 games (3.70), is pretty much the same which AGAIN, argues the pitching hasn't been bad, but the defense has been a major issue.

Perhaps you'd like to cherry-pick some other stat that I could then explain to you how it works?

[Stradling]

Is there a way to look at hard hit rates during those time frames @Inside Pitch?  The only thing I’ll say of late is it doesn’t feel as though the pitchers are allowing the same amount of base runners or the number of walks. 

[Inside Pitch]

15 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Is there a way to look at hard hit rates during those time frames @Inside Pitch?  The only thing I’ll say of late is it doesn’t feel as though the pitchers are allowing the same amount of base runners or the number of walks. 

Hard hit balls allowed

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=2&season=2021&month=1000&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-05-23&enddate=2021-06-09&sort=19,d

Walk rate 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2021&month=1000&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-05-23&enddate=2021-06-09&sort=7,d

Getting Stassi back has been huge...  But, he doesn't impact the defense or pitchers at all and has NOTHING to do with it...   

[Docwaukee]

13 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Is there a way to look at hard hit rates during those time frames @Inside Pitch?  The only thing I’ll say of late is it doesn’t feel as though the pitchers are allowing the same amount of base runners or the number of walks. 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=24&season=2021&month=1000&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-05-23&enddate=2021-06-09&sort=10,d

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Hard hit balls allowed

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=2&season=2021&month=1000&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-05-23&enddate=2021-06-09&sort=19,d

Walk rate 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2021&month=1000&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-05-23&enddate=2021-06-09&sort=7,d

Getting Stassi back has been huge...  But, he doesn't impact the defense or pitchers at all and has NOTHING to do with it...   

And if you're interested in what the numbers were like prior to the 10-5 run.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=2&season=2021&month=1000&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-05-22

So the pitchers have allowed more hard contact recently from 29.8% to 34.4% and the walk rate has dropped from 4.16 to 3.55.   A mixed bag.

 

[Docwaukee]

10 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

And if you're interested in what the numbers were like prior to the 10-5 run.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=2&season=2021&month=1000&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-05-22

So the pitchers have allowed more hard contact recently from 29.8% to 34.4% and the walk rate has dropped from 4.16 to 3.55.   A mixed bag.

 

decreased HR rate by a decent chunk.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

decreased HR rate by a decent chunk.  

Yep -- which makes the drop in BaBip more of a thing.   

So..  how much of this has been improved positioning?   I had stopped watching games with Baseball Savant up to avoid the headaches but I bet you there is a big time correlation there.

Or you know it was all just bad luck for 55 games.

[Stradling]

19 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yep -- which makes the drop in BaBip more of a thing.   

So..  how much of this has been improved positioning?   I had stopped watching games with Baseball Savant up to avoid the headaches but I bet you there is a big time correlation there.

Or you know it was all just bad luck for 55 games.

So are you thinking they are looking at shifting differently and making adjustments to the defensive alignment?  

[Stradling]

Oh and thank you IP and Doc, I will check all of that out when I have a chance to take it all in.  

[totdprods]

Quality of opponents should be a factor too. 

We had a tough first 30-something games.

[Stradling]

If we play well we can win ball games.  If we don’t we won’t, regardless of our opponents.  I know that is pretty deep.  But we have shown that we beat ourselves much more than the other teams beat us.  So if we figure that piece out we should be a decent team.  I compare it to this.  I have a friend that is a Chiefs fan. A couple years ago they fell way behind in the playoffs. He told me, even after being a Chiefs fan for his whole life that he wasn’t worried at all, even when they fell way behind because they were beating themselves.  He figured they would correct it mid game and find a way to get back in it.  

[T.G.]

@Stradling say hi to Victor Rojas for us.

[Angel Oracle]

Only 7 errors in past 15 games (no multi-error games)

That plus improved positioning plus improved control = like magic, a 10-5 record.

[T.G.]

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Time to revisit this..

Since May 23rd the Angels have gone 9-5..

During that span the team ERA is 3.82 -- 10th overall in MLB.  FIP 3.69 (7th), xFIP 3.73 (5th), SIERRA 3.76 (5th), and pitcher fWAR 2.3 (4th)...    1st overall since June 1.
BaBIP .278 16th, right at league average.

Opening day through May 22nd.

ERA 5.28 -- dead last.   FIP 4.57 (26th), xFIP 4.04 (18th), SIERRA 4.04 (16th), fWAR 1.9 (27th)
Babip .314 29th.

Amazing what turning batted balls into outs can do for a team. 

The gap between the ERA and the FIP is back over a run in June, so it's not like the defense has gotten significantly better but the BABIP (.290 in June 16th overall), is making the argument that they haven't been unlucky.  

So yeah... the key to turning this around is going to be for the team to play better defense.  

Lastly -- the offense has rebounded.  Last two weeks: 9th in wOBA, wRC+, and fWAR. 

Dang it, IP.  I was just about the post the exact same thing.

[Stradling]

50 minutes ago, True Grich said:

@Stradling say hi to Victor Rojas for us.

I don’t know what this means.  

[Stradling]

39 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Dang it, IP.  I was just about the post the exact same thing.

This is great.  Well done.

[jsnpritchett]

18 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I don’t know what this means.  

Rojas is a Chiefs fan.

[nate]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Gee, maybe that's why I included the offensive stats to avoid some dolt incapable of steering off his narrative from ignoring the obvious.    

Congrats on still managing to do it.  

Bless your heart.  You almost had it.

You had previously made it clear you don't understand how to read/use the stats you're quoting, no need to belabor the point.  LOL..  "leading to easier outs".

Fielding Independent Pitching converts a pitcher's three true outcomes into an earned run average-like number. The formula is (13*HR+3*(HBP+BB)-2*K)/IP, plus a constant (usually around 3.2) to put it on the same scale as earned run average.   Yes it's an indication the pitchers have performed better but it's not what's driving the improvement.

BaBIP is not part of the equation it involves things the pitcher cannot control which is why I made it a point to spot you the info and made it bold.   It's seemingly what is driving the improvement.

So again... the teams ability to turn batted balls into outs is STILL driving the pitching performance even as the actual defense has not really improved -- WHICH I pointed to in the post you responded to.   The teams SIERRA overall (3.96 14th in MLB) and over those 14 games (3.70), is pretty much the same which AGAIN, argues the pitching hasn't been bad, but the defense has been a major issue.

Perhaps you'd like to cherry-pick some other stat that I could then explain to you how it works?

I appreciate your aggressive defense of the pitchers and indictment of the defense, but since not every batted ball is equal, could it just be that there is more pressure being put on the defense because of poor pitching? ie: harder hit balls due to more hitters counts, and poor pitch execution? You know, the difference between a line drive into a gap and a lazy fly ball.

[Angel Oracle]

8 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Rojas is a Chiefs fan.

The Chiefs or THE Chiefs 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, nate said:

I appreciate your aggressive defense of the pitchers and indictment of the defense

It's less a "defense of the pitching" so much as it's an unwillingness to ignore all the data points that argue the pitching is being undermined by the defense -- let's call it an aggressive attempt to avoid being ignorant.  And truthfully my position all year has essentially been an indictment of the defensive positioning and whoever is behind that BS...  I watched most of the games while also looking at the live positioning data and pitcher/hitter tendencies at baseball savant and have seen the stupidity in real time..   Ask @Blarg how it went when he did the same.

1 hour ago, nate said:

but since not every batted ball is equal, could it just be that there is more pressure being put on the defense because of poor pitching? ie: harder hit balls due to more hitters counts, and poor pitch execution? You know, the difference between a line drive into a gap and a lazy fly ball.

Look who is trying to make it appear like others are guilty of lacking context, the guy that ignored all the data that pointed to such things in favor of his cherry picked stat.   

Remember all those other defensive stats I listed last time?  They were all bottom tier too, remember?   I gave you 15 data points (pitching and defense), you gave me ONE.  You glossed over all that to focus on one statistic that hilariously you were using incorrectly.  Even better, I'd love to see you continue on this new course given the Angels pitchers have allowed more hard contact during this "good run" than they had during the much larger "bad run".   

To take a page out of your book... "You ever seen hard hit balls get hit right at someone and soft hit balls fall in for hits."  If only there was a statistic that tried to take all those hits, lumped them all together, and then tried to normalize the results to get a base-line..  HOLY SHIT that does exist..  it's BABIP.

Good talk.

Do not pass Go... do not collect 200.00

[Blarg]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

 Ask @Blarg how it went when he did the same.

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

So are you thinking they are looking at shifting differently and making adjustments to the defensive alignment?  

I had stopped watching game with the live data up because I wanted to avoid an ulcer.  But either they have suddenly become not unlucky or the positioning has improved..   

[WicketMaiden]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

It's less a "defense of the pitching" so much as it's an unwillingness to ignore all the data points that argue the pitching is being undermined by the defense -- let's call it an aggressive attempt to avoid being ignorant.  And truthfully my position all year has essentially been an indictment of the defensive positioning and whoever is behind that BS...  I watched most of the games while also looking at the live positioning data and pitcher/hitter tendencies at baseball savant and have seen the stupidity in real time..   Ask @Blarg how it went when he did the same.

Look who is trying to make it appear like others are guilty of lacking context, the guy that ignored all the data that pointed to such things in favor of his cherry picked stat.   

Remember all those other defensive stats I listed last time?  They were all bottom tier too, remember?   I gave you 15 data points (pitching and defense), you gave me ONE.  You glossed over all that to focus on one statistic that hilariously you were using incorrectly.  Even better, I'd love to see you continue on this new course given the Angels pitchers have allowed more hard contact during this "good run" than they had during the much larger "bad run".   

To take a page out of your book... "You ever seen hard hit balls get hit right at someone and soft hit balls fall in for hits."  If only there was a statistic that tried to take all those hits, lumped them all together, and then tried to normalize the results to get a base-line..  HOLY SHIT that does exist..  it's BABIP.

Good talk.

Do not pass Go... do not collect 200.00

How do I link this thread to "midget-tossing" on wikipedia?

[tdawg87]

[Lou]

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

It's less a "defense of the pitching" so much as it's an unwillingness to ignore all the data points that argue the pitching is being undermined by the defense -- let's call it an aggressive attempt to avoid being ignorant.  And truthfully my position all year has essentially been an indictment of the defensive positioning and whoever is behind that BS...  I watched most of the games while also looking at the live positioning data and pitcher/hitter tendencies at baseball savant and have seen the stupidity in real time..   Ask @Blarg how it went when he did the same.

Look who is trying to make it appear like others are guilty of lacking context, the guy that ignored all the data that pointed to such things in favor of his cherry picked stat.   

Remember all those other defensive stats I listed last time?  They were all bottom tier too, remember?   I gave you 15 data points (pitching and defense), you gave me ONE.  You glossed over all that to focus on one statistic that hilariously you were using incorrectly.  Even better, I'd love to see you continue on this new course given the Angels pitchers have allowed more hard contact during this "good run" than they had during the much larger "bad run".   

To take a page out of your book... "You ever seen hard hit balls get hit right at someone and soft hit balls fall in for hits."  If only there was a statistic that tried to take all those hits, lumped them all together, and then tried to normalize the results to get a base-line..  HOLY SHIT that does exist..  it's BABIP.

Good talk.

Do not pass Go... do not collect 200.00