Angels interested in Kurt Suzuki

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Yea, I know some teams have been drafting catchers high in the draft, I would still shy away from that when what we really need is top of the rotation arms and we will have a top 10 pick in the draft.  Catchers have some of the highest fail rates in the draft.  But someone did post here that some successful teams are starting to look at catching earlier in the draft.  

At least draft one in the first 3-5 rounds.

[Angel Oracle]

When was the last time the Halos even drafted a catcher in the first 5 rounds?

[tdawg87]

Just now, Angel Oracle said:

When was the last time the Halos even drafted a catcher in the first 5 rounds?

Taylor Ward.

Matt Thaiss.

2 perfect examples of @Inside Pitch's point.

[Halodays]

3 hours ago, Warfarin said:

On a somewhat related note, I think there's a 50/50 chance we end up drafting a catcher with our top overall pick.  Given we have literally no catching in the pipeline to speak of, and given how much we have been linked to catchers this offseason, I have to think that Minasian will want a catcher he can groom and develop as his top overall pick, even before a SP prospect.

I hope not. I'd rather have more than half the Angel's top 10 prospects be pitchers. Every year teams are looking for pitching. Having a shit ton of pitching prospects in the minors can get you anything. Even a top catching prospect.

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Taylor Ward.

Matt Thaiss.

2 perfect examples of @Inside Pitch's point.

Yep, seeing that they were first round picks and ultimately never caught at the MLB level.

Nothing wrong though with taking a chance by rounds 3-5, if the catcher is rated around that area.

Main thing though is, Minasian knows that the Halos have for far too long not placed nearly enough emphasis on developing catchers. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Warfarin]

6 minutes ago, Halodays said:

I hope not. I'd rather have more than half the Angel's top 10 prospects be pitchers. Every year teams are looking for pitching. Having a shit ton of pitching prospects in the minors can get you anything. Even a top catching prospect.

Right - I would have to assume that it would either be a SP prospect or a C prospect.  It likely depends on how the preceding 8 picks go and who Minasian perceives as better value with the 9th pick.

But regardless, I do expect to see a high pick used on a catcher, whether it's in round 1 or 2.

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Halodays said:

I hope not. I'd rather have more than half the Angel's top 10 prospects be pitchers. Every year teams are looking for pitching. Having a shit ton of pitching prospects in the minors can get you anything. Even a top catching prospect.

My guess is this has happened most years under Eppler. 

[Warfarin]

12 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Taylor Ward.

Matt Thaiss.

2 perfect examples of @Inside Pitch's point.

I think when Thaiss was drafted, he was immediately moved off of C, so I don't think he was drafted to catch and then failed.

Ward, though, is an example.  That said, I trust Minasian's evaluation of catching talent, given the organizations he has worked for previously and their ability to draft and develop catching talent.

[tdawg87]

We'll draft the bpa. 

[Inside Pitch]

25 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I would have to imagine it will have to do with what pitchers are available, the quality of the catchers available and Minasian's conviction in their future, etc.

We do see some teams draft catchers very highly - the Giants have spent 2 first rounders on catchers in the last 3 years, with Bart considered a stud.  The Braves, despite already having Contreras, drafted Langeliers with their #9 pick, etc.

I'm not saying it is for sure the route they should go, but just based on Minasian's pedigree, his desire for catching and our complete lack of it, it would not surprise me to see him draft a C at #9, if he feels he has found one who can be part of our future core.

One of the best college bats in the draft is a catcher, so you may end being right on the 50/50 but pretty much nobody believes he will stay at catcher.  

I think people are reading way too much into what's happened in his previous gigs.  Those teams had different strengths and weaknesses, different people calling the shots, diffirent financial restraints.  I genuinely have no idea what the Angels will do, in the draft, this winter, in FA, via trades...  I'm guessing he's busy gathering intel and trying to plot out a course that best benefits the Angels' needs.

Plus wh knows what Arte is willing to let him do.

[ettin]

12 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Yep, seeing that they were first round picks and ultimately never caught at the MLB level.

Nothing wrong though with taking a chance by rounds 3-5, if the catcher is rated around that area.

Main thing though is, Minasian knows that the Halos have for far too long not placed nearly enough emphasis on developing catchers. 

I agree with your latter statement AO but I would argue that Eppler knew that developing good defensive catchers takes time and experience, it really is the hardest position to learn. Because of that I think Billy preferred (and maybe Minasian feels differently) to simply acquire experienced Major League catchers who have already learned and developed a lot of the necessary skills rather than invest their draft picks in catchers. Not to mention catchers are generally inexpensive in free agency and/or trade. Frankly I feel the same as Eppler appeared to feel, it seems like it is a position, just like the bullpen, where you can generally get away, particularly as a large market team (small market teams probably don't have this luxury), with using free agency as a source of backstops.

[Warfarin]

5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

One of the best college bats in the draft is a catcher, so you may end being right on the 50/50 but pretty much nobody believes he will stay at catcher.  

I think people are reading way too much into what's happened in his previous gigs.  Those teams had different strengths and weaknesses, different people calling the shots, diffirent financial restraints.  I genuinely have no idea what the Angels will do, in the draft, this winter, in FA, via trades...  I'm guessing he's busy gathering intel and trying to plot out a course that best benefits the Angels' needs.

Plus wh knows what Arte is willing to let him do.

In that instance, I doubt he'd be a target.

I agree with you on reading into his pedigree and what he may do here.  My thought process regarding catching though is the best executive in baseball (Andrew Friedman) has been loading up on catching for years - they either draft one very high in the draft or sign the highest rated one in international free agency.  Anthropolous has pretty much followed suit and been fairly aggressive in building up his catching pipeline in Atlanta, and we're seeing Zaidi do the same in SF now.

I just get the sense that the most forward-looking teams are trying to stock up on catching talent like there's no tomorrow, and I just have an inkling Minasian will attempt to do the same.  Of course, I could be entirely wrong.  

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

30 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Taylor Ward.

Matt Thaiss.

2 perfect examples of @Inside Pitch's point.

And they never made it (yet) as regulars at the position at the MLB level...

[Docwaukee]

8 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

In that instance, I doubt he'd be a target.

I agree with you on reading into his pedigree and what he may do here.  My thought process regarding catching though is the best executive in baseball (Andrew Friedman) has been loading up on catching for years - they either draft one very high in the draft or sign the highest rated one in international free agency.  Anthropolous has pretty much followed suit and been fairly aggressive in building up his catching pipeline in Atlanta, and we're seeing Zaidi do the same in SF now.

I just get the sense that the most forward-looking teams are trying to stock up on catching talent like there's no tomorrow, and I just have an inkling Minasian will attempt to do the same.  Of course, I could be entirely wrong.  

remember when all we would draft is catchers and everyone would lose their mind?  

[Warfarin]

4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

remember when all we would draft is catchers and everyone would lose their mind?  

The key part of the process would be the person who is evaluating the catching talent

[Angels 1961]

Suzuki and Stassi make a good combo behind the plate.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Something to remember the catchers we have drafted havent ended up being regular catcher for us since Napoli in 2000.

Mathis was drafted as a shortstop.

Both Ward and Thaiss were moved from behind the plate after wasting #1 spot on the position.

I just dont see us having success in developing at the position and that could be due to Sven who was a catcher and battled for perfection on defense. And Jose who was also a known Defensive first catcher who is our catching coach and instructor?

Kind places our two glaring development issues for years at the forefront of our issues today. Pitching arm issues and lack of leadership and ability behind the plate.

 

 

[floplag]

3 hours ago, Warfarin said:

I’m guessing it would be a one year deal for Suzuki.  So even if he doesn’t pan out, it wouldn’t be a long-term issue

Of course i would assume no more, but to what end?  Nothing all that exciting in next years FA class at the spot.  I guess we play revolving door behind the dish

[Stradling]

Mathis was drafted as a catcher. 

[AngelStew43]

I would like this from the catcher position.  His career BA is .259, and he doesn't strike out a lot.  2-3 mil on a one year deal to split time with Stassi, and the team would be in great shape behind the plate.

[Inside Pitch]

43 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Right - I would have to assume that it would either be a SP prospect or a C prospect.  It likely depends on how the preceding 8 picks go and who Minasian perceives as better value with the 9th pick.

But regardless, I doC  expect to see a high pick used on a catcher, whether it's in round 1 or 2.

So, youve been talking up this catcher thing in the draft, I decided to look it up..

Minasian joined the Jays in 2009 went into the pro scouting dept...

2009 - The Jays top 4 picks were pitchers, they didnt draft a catcher til the 10th round Yan Gomez, followed by another catcher in the 11th Chad Ochinko.
2010 - Again the first 4 picks went to pitchers, they didnt take a catcher til the 27th round, and then again the 50th round.
2011 - They went P, OF, P, OF, P, P, P, P, P.  They didnt pick a cather til the 34th round.
2012 - They went OF, P, P, 3B, P, P, 3B, OF then C, (already out of baseball), then another C in the 13th.  Two more after the 28th rounds
2013 - Pitchers with every pick in the first 9 rounds then a C (already out of baseball).  In the 16th they had their first success, Danny Jansen.  Two more 21st and 33rd.
2014 - P, C (Pentacost), P, P, C (Morgan) Both are now out of baseball.  They selected catchers at 16, 21 and 30.
2015 - P, P, P, 3B, P, SS, P, P, 3B, and then C (Owen Spiwak) out of baseball.  Another catcher at 14 and two more at 38 and 40.  
2016 - P, OF, SS, P, OF, 2B, P, P, P -- they didnt take a C til the 12th (out of baseball), and then the 27th, and 36th round.
2017 - SS, P, C (Danner), C (Riley), then Cs at 17, 19, 30

Braves

2018 - P, 1B, P, P, CF, P, SS, 3B.  Catchers selected 22, 24, 35, 40
2019 - Langoliers (9th overall), then at 21 and 30.
2020 - P, OF, P, P.

Based on the actual draft records, not sure there is any real focus on catchers.   One first rounder, a third in 2014...  If anything those teams like most teams went pitcher heavy.

[Inside Pitch]

17 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Something to remember the catchers we have drafted havent ended up being regular catcher for us since Napoli in 2000.

Mathis was drafted as a shortstop.

Both Ward and Thaiss were moved from behind the plate after wasting #1 spot on the position.

I just dont see us having success in developing at the position and that could be due to Sven who was a catcher and battled for perfection on defense. And Jose who was also a known Defensive first catcher who is our catching coach and instructor?

Kind places our two glaring development issues for years at the forefront of our issues today. Pitching arm issues and lack of leadership and ability behind the plate.

 

 

Mathis was not drafted as a SS -- he was a catcher, in fact he caught fellow first rounder Alan Horne (Indians) -- they were considered the best HS battery in the nation two years running.

[Warfarin]

9 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

So, youve been talking up this catcher thing in the draft, I decided to look it up..

Minasian joined the Jays in 2009 went into the pro scouting dept...

2009 - The Jays top 4 picks were pitchers, they didnt draft a catcher til the 10th round Yan Gomez, followed by another catcher in the 11th Chad Ochinko.
2010 - Again the first 4 picks went to pitchers, they didnt take a catcher til the 27th round, and then again the 50th round.
2011 - They went P, OF, P, OF, P, P, P, P, P.  They didnt pick a cather til the 34th round.
2012 - They went OF, P, P, 3B, P, P, 3B, OF then C, (already out of baseball), then another C in the 13th.  Two more after the 28th rounds
2013 - Pitchers with every pick in the first 9 rounds then a C (already out of baseball).  In the 16th they had their first success, Danny Jansen.  Two more 21st and 33rd.
2014 - P, C (Pentacost), P, P, C (Morgan) Both are now out of baseball.  They selected catchers at 16, 21 and 30.
2015 - P, P, P, 3B, P, SS, P, P, 3B, and then C (Owen Spiwak) out of baseball.  Another catcher at 14 and two more at 38 and 40.  
2016 - P, OF, SS, P, OF, 2B, P, P, P -- they didnt take a C til the 12th (out of baseball), and then the 27th, and 36th round.
2017 - SS, P, C (Danner), C (Riley), then Cs at 17, 19, 30

Braves

2018 - P, 1B, P, P, CF, P, SS, 3B.  Catchers selected 22, 24, 35, 40
2019 - Langoliers (9th overall), then at 21 and 30.
2020 - P, OF, P, P.

Based on the actual draft records, not sure there is any real focus on catchers.   One first rounder, a third in 2014...  If anything those teams like most teams went pitcher heavy.

Thanks for that in-depth review.  It's hard to say how much impact Minasian had in the earlier years with the Blue Jays; I'm truly not sure.  I have to imagine it was not a lot in the beginning, as he gradually gained experience and started earning the trust of his superiors.

I think probably looking at the more recent years would be a better indication, as the game has evolved and as he has gained experience.  Another key point, though, is probably the time his boss (Anthropolous) spent working directly under Andrew Friedman, who has hoarded catching talent like there's no tomorrow.

After that, when Minasian came to the Braves, they already had what was considered a very good catching prospect in Contreras and another decent one in Jackson, yet still drafted a catcher in the first round anyway (#9 overall).  I think that to me is perhaps a bit more telling of the direction he is looking in now in terms of value than looking at his earlier years with the Blue Jays.  

Also, I look at Zaidi, who was Friedman's top lieutenant, and he just drafted a catcher with his top pick in 2020, despite having one of the game's best catching prospects in Bart.  I think anyone who is connected to the Friedman tree seems to place an emphasis on drafting and developing catching talent.

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Warfarin said:

Thanks for that in-depth review.  It's hard to say how much impact Minasian had in the earlier years with the Blue Jays; I'm truly not sure.  I have to imagine it was not a lot in the beginning, as he gradually gained experience and started earning the trust of his superiors.

I think probably looking at the more recent years would be a better indication, as the game has evolved and as he has gained experience.  When he came to the Braves, they already had what was considered a very good catching prospect in Contreras and another decent one in Jackson, yet still drafted a catcher in the first round anyway (#9 overall).  I think that to me is perhaps a bit more telling than looking at his earlier years with the Blue Jays.

Considering Langoliers was drafted the same year Minasian joined the Braves I tend to believe they had their draft preferences in place prior to his joining the franchise.   Honestly the history just doesn't support the position that the teams he worked for leaned towards high round catchers.  

The biggest case to made for the Angels targeting a catcher is the lack of quality depth there in the minors and drafting for need is spotty AF.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

46 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Mathis was not drafted as a SS -- he was a catcher, in fact he caught fellow first rounder Alan Horne (Indians) -- they were considered the best HS battery in the nation two years running.

My bad, I thought, I had read he was a shortstop/pitcher in high school... He moved there out of necessity to catch Horne his Senior year..

Yeah, my memory isn't that horrid. Wasn't that back when we were on the Old ESPN Board also? That was around the time I had a few buddies who were playing in the org at the time. 

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1612228

Scouting report
Mathis' athletic tools stand out. He played mostly shortstop and pitcher in high school, catching during his senior year because he was the only guy on his team who could handle pitcher Alan Horne, who was chosen by the Indians in the first round in '01. Defensively, Mathis shows good mobility and leadership skills. He has a strong arm, but he sometimes has problems with his release. He hasn't thrown out runners at a great clip this year, though it wasn't a problem in '02. He does everything else well, and is working hard to improve his catching fundamentals (blocking, game-calling, etc). His work ethic is rated as exceptional.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/baseball-believes-in-jeff-mathis-and-the-hidden-value-of-game-calling-by-catchers/

The funny thing about Mathis is that he almost didn't become a catcher. Predominantly a shortstop and pitcher at Marianna High School, located in the Florida panhandle, he slid behind the plate as a senior because his team needed him to -- he was "the only guy on his team who could handle" pitcher and eventual first-round pick Alan Horne, per an old ESPN scouting report. The what-if game with Mathis doesn't end there, or on a baseball diamond. He was a skilled quarterback, one who led his team to the state title game. He had an offer to play at Florida State University and had the chance to star in both sports. Those aspirations ended soon after the Los Angeles Angels drafted him 33rd overall in 2001.