Trade Deadline megadeal

[Angels fan 25]

Why are the Angels not being talked about for getting Mike Clevenger from the Indians? There were serious talks in the winter, and now Cleveland will want to move him more so because he lost the trust of his team. 

Here is my theoretical megadeal: Keep in mind. Clevenger is signed through 2022, so this is not a deal for just this season. He is the ACE the angels have needed for years.

Angels acquire: P. Mike Clevenger 

Indians acquire: OF Justin Upton (Angels pay 75 percent of salary). OF Brian Goodwin, OF prospect Brandon Marsh

Now hear me out: Cleveland has the worst outfield in baseball by a mile! It's not even close. Even with Justin Upton's struggles, if his bat gets going, he could be a huge upgrade for the Indians' offense. Plus, with the angels contributing most of the money (they are paying him for nothing anyway), it makes it easier for the low payroll Indians, and frees up 25 percent more payroll for the Angels the next two seasons. Goodwin is a free agent at the end of the season anyway, and he is also a bat that could help the Indians. Marsh is a tough pill to swallow here. But seriously, what is his path to the majors? With Trout and Adell and guys like Michael Hermosillo and David Fletcher able to play the outfield (think of Fletcher as a Howie Kendrick type), plus with prospect Jordyn Adams who is also an outfielder, Marsh is expendable. Plus, I believe it is worth it for getting an ACE for 2 plus seasons. The Angels could then trade Bundy, and Simmons to get more prospects and re stock the farm. 

 

That puts us going into next season with a Rotation of Clevenger, Heaney, (Hopefully a free agent pitcher signed like Bauer or Tanaka, made easier by Taking away some Upton Money), Canning. That is closer to a real major league rotation.

 

Thoughts ? 

[Dtwncbad]

This is a case of over complicating a possible deal.  If the Angels want to pursue Clevinger, then they will pursue him.  But it is very unlikely they are going get Upton involved in the deal unless Cleveland suggest they are interested in making Upton part of the deal.  There is no evidence the Indians would be interested in having Upton.

[Claude]

Thoughts? Upton? No GM that wants to keep his job would acquire Upton. Eppler went all in on Upton so he’s not going anywhere.

[Dtwncbad]

Every year we see a thousand trade ideas that are basically some form of:

“Give us your best player and in return we will let you be the team that resolves one or more of our problems.”

[Stradling]

If we want Clevinger it is going to cost us something like Goodwin, Marsh, Middleton and Yan.  Maybe the Indians throw us back another prospect arm, but it would be someone like Sandoval.  

[mmc]

Because we aren’t buyers

[fan_since79]

I might want to hold on to Bundy. You can never have enough good pitching, and he looks legit so far.

And when Albert is finally gone we'll have another $30 million freed up.

2022 is looking very positive if we make some good moves.

[Angel Oracle]

Goodwin has two years before FA.   His August horrid slump isn't helping matters any, trade wise. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[totdprods]

Cleveland is extremely focused on keeping payroll light. Even Upton at 25% with his subpar production is a risk they likely wouldn't take. Marsh is a great prospect, but still unproven, maybe a year or two from real contribution, and the Indians need OF help immediately. Goodwin gives them some of that, sure, but if you were in the Cleveland FO and the best, immediately-producing OF you received was Brian Goodwin after dealing Mike Clevinger, you probably are going to be hearing it from fans and ownership.

They could flip Clevinger for Clint Frazier right now and probably get Goodwin-level production with more upside, control, and savings. 

On paper it makes some sense, but don't think it's enough. 

In another thread, I posted a 3-way idea that came from a similar place of your thinking...

• CLE gets: Mike Yastrzemski, Brandon Marsh, and one of Jose Suarez/Jaime Barria
• SF gets: Mike Clevinger or Zach Plesac, Griffin Canning, and Justin Upton
• LAA gets: Mike Clevinger or Zach Plesac, Johnny Cueto, and one or two players from either team: Naquin, Luplow, DeShields, Slater, Duggar, Zimmer, Mercado, maybe a SF catcher or someone like Conner Menez

Cleveland gets immediate outfield help that's cheap, controlled, high-impact in Yaz, Marsh could contribute this year or in near future, and the Angels SP included helps replete some depth. This keeps their payroll light and flexible, and stretches out the impact of the players received to help them both now and in the future. They have several 4-A type OFs, one or two of them could be displaced and sent back to the Angels (or Giants even) to help cover some of the depth those teams dealt.

San Francisco, who's shown a willingness to absorb salary, essentially swaps out Cueto's contract for Upton's. Similar money, but Upton has an extra year. They get an immediate frontline arm to put atop their rotation which is full of question marks and rookies and a high-risk, high-reward prospect in Canning from the Angels. If Upton gives them league-average production, they'd be happy. Their window isn't now. In dealing Yaz they take a huge risk, but this is a classic sell-high for them. I doubt they ever imagined a minor league trade of a reliever for a 4-A outfielder would net them Mike Clevinger a year later. Like Cleveland, the Giants have a couple 4-A OF types, one of whom could go back to Anaheim to replete their immediate OF depth. 

The Angels land a frontline-caliber arm in Plesac (my preference) with years of control still pre-arb. He essentially steps into Canning's spot in the rotation, with same amount of control, seemingly less injury risk, similar upside, and better immediate production. They swap out Upton's contract for Cueto's, who won't bring anything flashy to the table, but hopefully gives them lots of innings of a #4-type SP. They likely buy him out instead of picking up an option next season, giving them nearly $50m freed up with his and Pujols' contract expiring. The pitching depth takes a hit, but they bring back one or two Brian Goodwin 2.0 types, perhaps finding another OF who gives them cheap, league average production until Adell starts to click and Adams arrives. Perhaps Goodwin is dealt separately at some point for another SP.

[Bronson]

 

18 minutes ago, Game 6 said:

I think Cleveland will want Fletcher in any deal for Zach Plesac or Clevinger. I would prefer Plesac of the two. If the Indians really are shopping them they will get offers of some pretty good bats from other teams.

To me, Fletcher is off limits. We can’t just gut our offense for pitching. Fletcher is vital to our offensive game. Our offense is so much weaker without him.

[Erstad Grit]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

Cleveland is extremely focused on keeping payroll light. Even Upton at 25% with his subpar production is a risk they likely wouldn't take. Marsh is a great prospect, but still unproven, maybe a year or two from real contribution, and the Indians need OF help immediately. Goodwin gives them some of that, sure, but if you were in the Cleveland FO and the best, immediately-producing OF you received was Brian Goodwin after dealing Mike Clevinger, you probably are going to be hearing it from fans and ownership.

They could flip Clevinger for Clint Frazier right now and probably get Goodwin-level production with more upside, control, and savings. 

On paper it makes some sense, but don't think it's enough. 

In another thread, I posted a 3-way idea that came from a similar place of your thinking...

• CLE gets: Mike Yastrzemski, Brandon Marsh, and one of Jose Suarez/Jaime Barria
• SF gets: Mike Clevinger or Zach Plesac, Griffin Canning, and Justin Upton
• LAA gets: Mike Clevinger or Zach Plesac, Johnny Cueto, and one or two players from either team: Naquin, Luplow, DeShields, Slater, Duggar, Zimmer, Mercado, maybe a SF catcher or someone like Conner Menez

Cleveland gets immediate outfield help that's cheap, controlled, high-impact in Yaz, Marsh could contribute this year or in near future, and the Angels SP included helps replete some depth. This keeps their payroll light and flexible, and stretches out the impact of the players received to help them both now and in the future. They have several 4-A type OFs, one or two of them could be displaced and sent back to the Angels (or Giants even) to help cover some of the depth those teams dealt.

San Francisco, who's shown a willingness to absorb salary, essentially swaps out Cueto's contract for Upton's. Similar money, but Upton has an extra year. They get an immediate frontline arm to put atop their rotation which is full of question marks and rookies and a high-risk, high-reward prospect in Canning from the Angels. If Upton gives them league-average production, they'd be happy. Their window isn't now. In dealing Yaz they take a huge risk, but this is a classic sell-high for them. I doubt they ever imagined a minor league trade of a reliever for a 4-A outfielder would net them Mike Clevinger a year later. Like Cleveland, the Giants have a couple 4-A OF types, one of whom could go back to Anaheim to replete their immediate OF depth. 

The Angels land a frontline-caliber arm in Plesac (my preference) with years of control still pre-arb. He essentially steps into Canning's spot in the rotation, with same amount of control, seemingly less injury risk, similar upside, and better immediate production. They swap out Upton's contract for Cueto's, who won't bring anything flashy to the table, but hopefully gives them lots of innings of a #4-type SP. They likely buy him out instead of picking up an option next season, giving them nearly $50m freed up with his and Pujols' contract expiring. The pitching depth takes a hit, but they bring back one or two Brian Goodwin 2.0 types, perhaps finding another OF who gives them cheap, league average production until Adell starts to click and Adams arrives. Perhaps Goodwin is dealt separately at some point for another SP.

I normally hate these fans 3 way trades,  one team is always getting screwed.  This actually makes sense for all. 

[Stradling]

Anyone that thinks Upton waives his no trade clause to go anywhere not destined for the playoffs is kidding themselves. 

[totdprods]

Just now, Stradling said:

Anyone that thinks Upton waives his mood trade clause to go anywhere not destined for the playoffs is kidding themselves. 

I basically just hinged my hopes on him being a West Coast guy and deciding staying in Cali was enough for him. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I basically just hinged my hopes on him being a West Coast guy and deciding staying in Cali was enough for him. 

Sure, send him to SD or LA or Oakland then maybe. 

[Angels 1961]

One GM traded for Vernon Wells once.

[Angels fan 25]

I'll just leave this here. Read down to number 3....

https://www.mlb.com/news/blockbuster-proposals-for-2020-trade-deadline

[Redondo]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

One GM traded for Vernon Wells once.

 

[Vlad27Trout27]

With the way Upton and Adell have looked so far, i am less incline in trading Marsh. 

I would rather go and sign either Stroman/bauer and than look to aquire someone next year, after seeing how the other guys are doing.

[totdprods]

6 hours ago, Angels fan 25 said:

I'll just leave this here. Read down to number 3....

https://www.mlb.com/news/blockbuster-proposals-for-2020-trade-deadline

I’d make that trade. 

[failos]

Y’all smoking that good Kush