Bryant and/or Baez May be traded

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Darvish is 32, signed through his age 36 season, owed 81M and has an injury history.  I hope he's nowhere near being on the Angels radar.  I'd rather the Angels roll the dice with Upton and eventually hopefully Adell to give Trout some protection rather than pay what it would take to acquire Bryant.  

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Bryant will be first year arb and is already making $12.5 million. He is a free agent in 2022. So how does he fit into the payroll when you need at least two front line starters? 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love Bryant on the team ever since I saw him in the AFL 5 years ago but currently there is no budget room for him if you are going to get pitching. 

Well my question is how does he fit into a plan to win before how does he fit into the payroll.

So you are asking the wrong guy.  If there is no budget room, change the budget.

[floplag]

45 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I don’t really disagree but at the same time when you are “out of money” and have big money going to unmovable parts (Lester, Kimbrel, Heyward), not unlike the Angels (Albert and Upton), then you choose to either go all in again or trade your two stars and bring back as much talent as you can get.  Darvish is fine and can win you a playoff game, but after that it would be tough to win many games, and they don’t have a bullpen despite spending big money on a closer that hasn’t worked out quite yet.  

Not sure how they could be out of money, i mean i dont see them spending more over the current range of course but that would seem sustainable to them with the TV network etc... unless im misunderstanding something about their finances which is possible of course.
For me though i just dont think they are that bad.  Down year yeah but this roster could easily jump back to 90+ish one would think.  I dont know im not that up on them.

[Angel Oracle]

If Arte was willing to really go all in for say 2022, then even with Upton still here for a year longer by then and if they sign Cole this off-season, they could go all in and sign Bryant as a FA then instead of trading for him now.    He's still only 29/30 in 2022.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, floplag said:

i get what you are saying but its also a team that won 95 a year ago, 92 before that, seems a little early to write them of after one down year dont you think?  Thats still a hell of a core to build around?

It's about money.   They make a ton of money but the Cubs have tended to spend the way the Angels have historically.  Their payroll was under 90 mil when Maddon got there and was still under 180 Mil two years ago -- this year it finished near 220 Mil, they probably kept it as high as they did for about as long as they were willing to do.  I said willing, not capable because it's clearly a choice.

Reports have the Red Sox looking to get under the cap this off-season too.   Seems like even the big budget teams are actively trying to reset their tax hits every so often now.

[Lou]

I love how a thread about the Cubs willing to trade Bryant and/or Baez turns immediately into us trading for Yu. 

[Blarg]

It did veer off to Upton but that crap was dumped. 

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

He’s been the perfect example of health his entire career until this year.  You should be more  concerned with Trout or Simmons health than Upton based on history. 

While the starting pitching is bad and needs a major overhaul atop the rotation and should be priority #1, I'm also concerned with everyone outside of Trout and Fletcher as far as offensive contributors in 2020. We'll be seeing less of Ohtani at the plate with him having 3 straight days off with the occasional day off against a lefty. Ohtani's 2019 was a mixed bag at the plate, so I'm not sure we can count on him being that #2 in the 1-2 punch in the lineup that every good team has. Not only will Simba be able to stay healthy, but he was pretty below average at the plate this season so who knows what to expect in 2020. 

As far as Upton, he is going to be 33 years old and had hit a rough stretch at the plate and in the field, in addition to a couple different injuries this season. If you're fine with Upton being Trout's primary protection in the lineup, Goodwin in RF, hope and prayers that La Stella isn't a farce and the fact that we still don't have hitting catcher in the lineup... well give yourself a pat on the back of your Superfan's cape. All is well with the Angels! Just like it is with Eppler who only had his option picked up for one year and how it was with Ausmus who was fired.

Does it really make sense to sign Cole, one of Wheeler or Odorizzi and perhaps trade or sign for another starting pitcher, if the offense isn't improved and the Halos sit on their hands and put their hopes in La Stella, Goodwin, Pujols, Simba, Upton, Ohtani (at the plate) when the Astros had a rotation that had, but also boasted a lineup of Altuve, Springer, Bregman, Alvarez, Gurriel, Correa and a few of those guys were hurt this season and out for several weeks. The Yankees and Dodgers, same thing. Three good starters, Three good hitters. While that's not a formula for winning a championship, it sure as hell will increased your chances at making the playoffs. 

So yes, if you have a chance to get a Baez or Bryant for prospects and other pieces, you do it. 

@Stradling it's OK to be objective. Every one of your posts is slanted toward pro everything Angels, everything is right in the world of Halos Baseball. I'm a pretty optimistic guy and Angels fan and have been since '79, but it's OK to point out areas of weakness too. 

[Lou]

we're not getting Cole (or a different #1 starter), another good SP and Bryant or Baez. 

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, Lou said:

we're not getting Cole (or a different #1 starter), another good SP and Bryant or Baez. 

failo

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, Lou said:

we're not getting Cole (or a different #1 starter), another good SP and Bryant or Baez. 

Then it's going to be another long season. 

The Angels need to have another 2004 type offseason. 

They got two solid arms in Colon and Escobar and Vlad and Guillen (who was coming off a big 2003 campaign). 

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

Then it's going to be another long season. 

The Angels need to have another 2004 type offseason. 

They got two solid arms in Colon and Escobar and Vlad and Guillen (who was coming off a big 2003 campaign). 

we had the money to make those moves. it was a completely different era. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

While the starting pitching is bad and needs a major overhaul atop the rotation and should be priority #1, I'm also concerned with everyone outside of Trout and Fletcher as far as offensive contributors in 2020. We'll be seeing less of Ohtani at the plate with him having 3 straight days off with the occasional day off against a lefty. Ohtani's 2019 was a mixed bag at the plate, so I'm not sure we can count on him being that #2 in the 1-2 punch in the lineup that every good team has. Not only will Simba be able to stay healthy, but he was pretty below average at the plate this season so who knows what to expect in 2020. 

As far as Upton, he is going to be 33 years old and had hit a rough stretch at the plate and in the field, in addition to a couple different injuries this season. If you're fine with Upton being Trout's primary protection in the lineup, Goodwin in RF, hope and prayers that La Stella isn't a farce and the fact that we still don't have hitting catcher in the lineup... well give yourself a pat on the back of your Superfan's cape. All is well with the Angels! Just like it is with Eppler who only had his option picked up for one year and how it was with Ausmus who was fired.

Does it really make sense to sign Cole, one of Wheeler or Odorizzi and perhaps trade or sign for another starting pitcher, if the offense isn't improved and the Halos sit on their hands and put their hopes in La Stella, Goodwin, Pujols, Simba, Upton, Ohtani (at the plate) when the Astros had a rotation that had, but also boasted a lineup of Altuve, Springer, Bregman, Alvarez, Gurriel, Correa and a few of those guys were hurt this season and out for several weeks. The Yankees and Dodgers, same thing. Three good starters, Three good hitters. While that's not a formula for winning a championship, it sure as hell will increased your chances at making the playoffs. 

@Stradling it's OK to be objective. Every one of your posts is slanted toward pro everything Angels, everything is right in the world of Halos Baseball. I'm a pretty optimistic guy and Angels fan and have been since '79, but it's OK to point out areas of weakness too. 

Cool.  Superfan cape.  Sorry I disagreed with you that Upton has had an injury plagued year by pointing out the fact that before this year he has been healthy.  

Yes it makes sense to upgrade the rotation because the offense was injured.  Plus it is much easier to acquire offense throughout the season, or next off season or by graduating Adell or Marsh.  So yes, because of that it makes sense to spend the money on Cole.  You’ve been critical of Eppler this year because of the players he brought in.  So using your belief did it make sense for him to upgrade the rotation last year or the year before if the offense wasn’t ready?  

Here is my belief.  Eppler did shitty last year in free agency.  Eppler did a great job of acquiring Goodwin and La Stella.  My belief is that we are better today than we were a year ago, except with the loss of Skaggs.  The reason I feel that way is the pen did well, Robles is a legit closer, we didn’t know that a year ago.  The farm is one year closer to being able to provide talent needed.  Fletcher proved that he is a major league player.  Rengifo, Thaiss, Canning, Sandoval all came up and faired decently in their first run.  Sandoval moved up 3 levels over the course of the last two seasons.  I’m not sold on Suarez because I didn’t see any out pitch from him.  We all get it Albert is old, Kole is gone, and the Stassi deal so far looks like shit.  But with free agent pitchers being readily available I see us making 2-3 moves to bring in much needed arms.  If we don’t then I am wrong.  

The Superfan monicker from you is bullshit.  Sorry I am not a whiny bitch which seems to be all the rage these days.  

[Chuck]

7 minutes ago, Lou said:

we had the money to make those moves. it was a completely different era. 

True.. Still cannot believe that we got Vlad and Colon for super cheap. I think 130 million for both! 

[Chuck]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Cool.  Superfan cape.  Sorry I disagreed with you that Upton has had an injury plagued year by pointing out the fact that before this year he has been healthy.  

Yes it makes sense to upgrade the rotation because the offense was injured.  Plus it is much easier to acquire offense throughout the season, or next off season or by graduating Adell or Marsh.  So yes, because of that it makes sense to spend the money on Cole.  You’ve been critical of Eppler this year because of the players he brought in.  So using your belief did it make sense for him to upgrade the rotation last year or the year before if the offense wasn’t ready?  

Here is my belief.  Eppler did shitty last year in free agency.  Eppler did a great job of acquiring Goodwin and La Stella.  My belief is that we are better today than we were a year ago, except with the loss of Skaggs.  The reason I feel that way is the pen did well, Robles is a legit closer, we didn’t know that a year ago.  The farm is one year closer to being able to provide talent needed.  Fletcher proved that he is a major league player.  Rengifo, Thaiss, Canning, Sandoval all came up and faired decently in their first run.  Sandoval moved up 3 levels over the course of the last two seasons.  I’m not sold on Suarez because I didn’t see any out pitch from him.  We all get it Albert is old, Kole is gone, and the Stassi deal so far looks like shit.  But with free agent pitchers being readily available I see us making 2-3 moves to bring in much needed arms.  If we don’t then I am wrong.  

The Superfan monicker from you is bullshit.  Sorry I am not a whiny bitch which seems to be all the rage these days.  

There is no whining here at all, just pointing out the facts. The Angels are in desperate need of starting pitching, but they also need to improve the O this offseason IMO if they want to compete with the best in baseball. 

[Angel Oracle]

Best thing now is to get the pitching shored up.   Then if by two years from now, they are close to being serious contenders for the AL pennant, THEN you can sign Bryant as a FA if available for the remaining piece.   And then stay away from the big FA signings until late in the decade.

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

There is no whining here at all, just pointing out the facts. The Angels are in desperate need of starting pitching, but they also need to improve the O this offseason IMO if they want to compete with the best in baseball. 

My facts make me a superfan, your facts make you?

[floplag]

47 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

It's about money.   They make a ton of money but the Cubs have tended to spend the way the Angels have historically.  Their payroll was under 90 mil when Maddon got there and was still under 180 Mil two years ago -- this year it finished near 220 Mil, they probably kept it as high as they did for about as long as they were willing to do.  I said willing, not capable because it's clearly a choice.

Reports have the Red Sox looking to get under the cap this off-season too.   Seems like even the big budget teams are actively trying to reset their tax hits every so often now.

Well thats the thing, they are willing to bust the penalty for a bit, then reset it before it really hurts, then go ham again. 

[Dick B Back]

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

If the Angels go big on SP via FA then acquire Clyde McBigBat and gut the farm they're taking a major risk because if it doesn't pan out you could still be looking at extending the rebuild or whatever you want to call the last 4-5 years.  I'll be happy if they come away with 2 legit SP's this off season.  

[Lou]

28 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

There is no whining here at all, just pointing out the facts. The Angels are in desperate need of starting pitching, but they also need to improve the O this offseason IMO if they want to compete with the best in baseball. 

are you ready to gut the farm or trade Adell to do it?

[Chuck]

5 minutes ago, Lou said:

are you ready to gut the farm or trade Adell to do it?

I'm good with gutting the farm to do it, but not trading Adell. I have a feeling he's going to be a superstar. 

I like Marsh too, but you need to give to get... If you can get say a Kris Bryant or Javier Baez for J. Jackson or W. Wilson, Soriano and Brandon Marsh, you have to consider that. 

[Inside Pitch]

The Phillies gutted their farm, spent 330 mil on Harper -- another 50 on McCutchen, and 23 million on David Robertson who is already out for all of next season.  They saw their offense go from an 89 OPS+ to a 91 OPS+ and improved their win total by 1 win.

This team needs to continue to build, not bust their wad in one off-season.

[Lou]

6 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I like Marsh too, but you need to give to get... If you can get say a Kris Bryant or Javier Baez for J. Jackson or W. Wilson, Soriano and Brandon Marsh, you have to consider that. 

how many of those players are ranked in the top 100?

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

The Phillies gutted their farm, spent 330 mil on Harper -- another 50 on McCutchen, and 23 million on David Robertson who is already out for all of next season.  They saw their offense go from an 89 OPS+ to a 91 OPS+ and improved their win total by 1 win.

This team needs to continue to build, not bust their wad in one off-season.

While true, you also roll he dice on the farm hoping they'll live up to or exceed expectations. 

Honest question IP, what is your plan to improve the team without leveraging the farm system this offseason and next in hopes of winning in 2021.

Personally I don't think I can suffer through another awful season. I'm good without making the playoffs in 2020 if we can have a winning season and have the resources and talent from within to win big in 2021. 

Let's see your master plan.