Angel Pitching woes and free agency

[Dtwncbad]

Are we at the point where free agent pitchers may question whether they want to come to Angels, being spooked by this horrible pattern of every pitcher getting hurt here?

I am not saying that would be rational or reasonable, but could this actually end up being a factor?

Do GMs do any dirty campaigning asking agents if they really want to put their client into certain organizations that have an inexplicable volume of arm problems?

[WeaverFever]

4 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Are we at the point where free agent pitchers may question whether they want to come to Angels, being spooked by this horrible pattern of every pitcher getting hurt here?

I am not saying that would be rational or reasonable, but could this actually end up being a factor?

Do GMs do any dirty campaigning asking agents if they really want to put their client into certain organizations that have an inexplicable volume of arm problems?

I don’t think it’s rational. Yet when was the last time we signed a marquee free agent pitcher? CJ? 

[floplag]

The Yankees dont seem to have that problem, and they have had as many as we have.
Of course hey are the Yankees and were.. not.

[Stradling]

Which free agent pitchers have gotten hurt here?  

[mulwin444]

I'm going to go with "Pitcher X will sign with team that offers best deal regardless of other pitchers arm issues"

[Dtwncbad]

46 minutes ago, Baghdad Strad said:

Which free agent pitchers have gotten hurt here?  

Why would they have to have previously been free agents for it to matter?

If you observe pitchers in the Angel “system” are getting hurt at an alarming rate, maybe you hesitate to be a part of that system.

Whether the players getting hurt came to the team from free agency or not would be irrelevant.

[Angelsjunky]

46 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

I'm going to go with "Pitcher X will sign with team that offers best deal regardless of other pitchers arm issues"

Or rather, "Pitcher X will sign with the team that offers the best deal BECAUSE OF other pitchers' arm issues."

Guaranteed money is even more important for pitchers than it is for hitters, and conversely more risky for teams.

[Stradling]

25 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Why would they have to have previously been free agents for it to matter?

If you observe pitchers in the Angel “system” are getting hurt at an alarming rate, maybe you hesitate to be a part of that system.

Whether the players getting hurt came to the team from free agency or not would be irrelevant.

Not if the prevailing belief is true which is its caused by over work at a young age.  

So if you have had success in the past you think the Angels are going to change that guys routine?  I don’t. 

[Inside Pitch]

Are baseball contracts still guaranteed?   Yes, yes they are..

So armed with that knowledge...  If you're a 30 year old pitcher looking for a 6 year contract and the best deal possible, are you really going to worry about how possibly getting hurt might hurt you get your next contract at age 37?  Because that's what's at stake -- their next contract.

Other than Trevor Bauer and his one year at a time mentality, how realistic a concern is this?

[Dick B Back]

I’d think the CA taxes for the 100+ games played in CA would scare them more

[Dick Enberg]

11 minutes ago, Dick B Back said:

I’d think the CA taxes for the 100+ games played in CA would scare them more

Cole as already mentioned that about CA when weighting the pros and cons of signing here

 

[Jay]

17 minutes ago, Dick B Back said:

I’d think the CA taxes for the 100+ games played in CA would scare them more

 

4 minutes ago, Dick Enberg said:

Cole as already mentioned that about CA when weighting the pros and cons of signing here

Cole once said, "[Houston] checks a lot of the boxes..."

This is one of those boxes. Zero percent state income tax.

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Baghdad Strad said:

Not if the prevailing belief is true which is its caused by over work at a young age.  

So if you have had success in the past you think the Angels are going to change that guys routine?  I don’t. 

That is rational and I agree.  My question is whether this ridiculous streak of arm problems could actually get into the mentality of free agents irrationally.

[Dtwncbad]

32 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Are baseball contracts still guaranteed?   Yes, yes they are..

So armed with that knowledge...  If you're a 30 year old pitcher looking for a 6 year contract and the best deal possible, are you really going to worry about how possibly getting hurt might hurt you get your next contract at age 37?  Because that's what's at stake -- their next contract.

Other than Trevor Bauer and his one year at a time mentality, how realistic a concern is this?

You really don’t think players care at all about staying healthy, playing well, building their career legacy with numbers, and being on the field to be a part of winning?

[arch stanton]

17 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Cole once said, "[Houston] checks a lot of the boxes..."

This is one of those boxes. Zero percent state income tax.

And miserable weather and 6 million Texans

[tdawg87]

13 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

You really don’t think players care at all about staying healthy, playing well, building their career legacy with numbers, and being on the field to be a part of winning?

Of course they do. But I don't think they will shy away from a team because they think they might get hurt due to some "curse" or whatever nonsense. 

I think this is especially true for established veterans who already have their own strength and conditioning regimen. It's literally "oh I might not want to pitch there because other pitchers have mysteriously gotten hurt just by putting on the uniform." It's bunk. It won't even be remotely considered by Cole and Boras and if it is, I would question the dude's sanity.

[Inside Pitch]

28 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

You really don’t think players care at all about staying healthy, playing well, building their career legacy with numbers, and being on the field to be a part of winning?

No, I'm sure they do -- I just happen to think most athletes care about financial security that mitigates those concerns even more, but that's opinion and nothing else.  I'm sure there are some that want to win above all else too -- there are no absolutes.

Being a part of a winner, career legacy, historic numbers, those were all the sorts of things people talked about as potentially being important to Trout and why he would possibly leave.  At the end of the day, nobody has any clue what a player actually values or wants most, anyone who thinks they have some greater insight into their psyche's is deluding themselves.

But back to the issue of fear of injury from players....  show me a team that can guarantee players they will not fall victim to serious injury and Ill show you a unicorn.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[eligrba]

I thought the problem was Pujols.

[kevinb]

We are at the point where if we offer the most money then we will get what ever free agent we so desire. 

[Jay]

2 hours ago, Kevinb said:

We are at the point where if we offer the most money then we will get what ever free agent we so desire. 

[Inside Pitch]

@Jay I had never seen this before... It's great!

[Broad Street]

20 hours ago, Baghdad Strad said:

Which free agent pitchers have gotten hurt here?  

Harvey missed time this year. CJ missed his whole last year. Colon tore his rotator cuff. I’m sure there’s more. 

[Stradling]

Harvey missed time because he sucked and Colon was like 12 years ago, but ok CJ Wilson.  

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

https://www.ocregister.com/2019/08/23/astros-ace-gerrit-cole-remains-a-big-fan-of-angels-shohei-ohtani/

Astros ace Gerrit Cole remains a big fan of Angels’ Shohei Ohtani

“It’s kind of hard for me to understand,” Houston Astros ace Gerrit Cole said Friday. “I can’t even really understand. The physical demand is incomprehensible. I couldn’t imagine doing it. Certainly, he has the ability to do both. My gosh, why not give it a shot. You’ve been given a gift. Go for it. It’s crazy. I’ve never seen anything like it.” ...

 

...“This guy is as good as Mike (Trout), almost, at the dish,” Cole said. “I’ve never seen a physical specimen like that. This guy is a legit 40 (home runs) and 120 (RBIs) guy if he just hits. Legit. Why are we going to get greedy (by using him as a starting pitcher)?

“I want to see him play for 15 years, 20 years. I’ve never seen anything like it. That’s why I don’t want to be greedy. Just let the guy play for 20 years. I just want to watch it. I’m so intrigued.”

While the Angels might not follow Cole’s suggestion of how to use Ohtani, they’d certainly love to give Cole the opportunity to watch him up close for years.

[tdawg87]

22 hours ago, Baghdad Strad said:

Which free agent pitchers have gotten hurt here?