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Could Arte afford both Cole and MadBum?


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Cole = true ace and only 29 to start the 2020 season.   MadBum = one of the best post-season pitchers of this millennium so far, pretty durable, and still pitching well enough plus will still only be 30 to start the 2020 season.

What would it take to sign both of them?   

Calhoun's, Cozart's, and Pujols' contracts, plus Harvey/Cahill's/Allen's/etc. all come off by two years from this coming off-season.  That's some $75 million coming off AAV payroll by then.

Then, no more big FA money newcomers until hopefully at least late into the 2020's? 

 

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I think Hamels would be likelier since you might be able to keep him limited to 1-2 years. SoCal native. Produces well still, maybe comparatively well to Bumgarner. Cubs need his salary back, more than likely. Familiar with AL West. Angels have pursued Sabathia recently and he’d fit the mold of a 1-yr elder statesman SP. 

Much easier to go over budget on a short-term deal for Hamels than multiple years for Bumgarner, IMO, should they sign Cole.

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Just now, Make Angels Great Again said:

Bumgarner terrifies me. I think AT&T park has a big effect on his numbers. His HR/9 is doubled for his career outside of there.

He could command 90M for Heaney or worse type performance.

Yup. San Diego and LA also help prop up solid pitching numbers in the NL West. 

My bet is Bumgarner signs with Atlanta. They will have a clear need for a vet leader on the staff who they could rely on to lead them, but also just eat up innings if he regresses, and he grew up a Braves fan. 

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They really need a 2nd guy for at least 2 years.   Hamels would be 36 and 37 in 2020 and 2021, and does have a solid career post-season ERA/WHIP of 3.41/1.10 over 100 innings.

What kind of deal would it take for two years?    I'm still kind of skeptical, due to the age and recent struggles (2017-2018) in the AL.  

I was thinking something like 3 years/$50 million for MadBum.  But if someone comes in significantly higher, I would seriously consider passing on him.  The penchant for HRs allowed on the road is a concern, especially given the Halos games in Texas, Houston, and suddenly HR happy Oakland and Seattle. 

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Just now, Angel Oracle said:

They really need a 2nd guy for at least 2 years.   Hamels would be 36 and 37 in 2020 and 2021, and does have a solid career post-season ERA/WHIP of 3.41/1.10 over 100 innings.

What kind of deal would it take for two years?    I'm still kind of skeptical due to the age and recent struggles (2017-2018) in the AL.  

I don’t think so - Ray, Stroman, Paxton, Bauer, Erlin, DeSclafini, Richards, Sanchez, Minor, Walker, Fiers all hit FA after 2020 and could be options at that time. We will be in a much better place to trade for an arm too, presumably, and have a better idea of how Ohtani, Canning, Suarez, Sandoval, and Barria project. Soriano and Yan could move along quickly, and Ortega, Pena, Beasley, Warren, Peters, and Bradish shouldn’t be ignored either. All could still take a step forward and contribute enough with some luck to allow Billy the freedom to wait it out. 

I think Hamels and Cole would be a fantastic duo. 

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14 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Bumgarner terrifies me. I think AT&T park has a big effect on his numbers. His HR/9 is doubled for his career outside of there.

 

He could command 90M for Heaney or worse type performance.

Yep, last couple seasons, he's been a #4/#5 type on the road. And he'll get paid like a #1.

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25 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I don’t think so - Ray, Stroman, Paxton, Bauer, Erlin, DeSclafini, Richards, Sanchez, Minor, Walker, Fiers all hit FA after 2020 and could be options at that time. We will be in a much better place to trade for an arm too, presumably, and have a better idea of how Ohtani, Canning, Suarez, Sandoval, and Barria project. Soriano and Yan could move along quickly, and Ortega, Pena, Beasley, Warren, Peters, and Bradish shouldn’t be ignored either. All could still take a step forward and contribute enough with some luck to allow Billy the freedom to wait it out. 

I think Hamels and Cole would be a fantastic duo. 

Cole is the obvious #1. I’m partial to Hamels, also, though, as our second acquisition. Short term commitment, but that may drive up cost.  Trading for Ray would be my second choice, probably. 

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Could Arte afford? Probably could. The question should be, will Arte spend what it takes to get Cole and madbum?

I do like the idea of getting Cole and Cole better. If I was was to break the bank some, those two would be my targets. 7 years 220m to get Gerrit Cole? 3 years 54m to get Cole Hamels? 48m a year for these two would put us over the top

 

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3 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Cole = true ace and only 29 to start the 2020 season.   MadBum = one of the best post-season pitchers of this millennium so far, pretty durable, and still pitching well enough plus will still only be 30 to start the 2020 season.

What would it take to sign both of them?   

Calhoun's, Cozart's, and Pujols' contracts, plus Harvey/Cahill's/Allen's/etc. all come off by two years from this coming off-season.  That's some $75 million coming off AAV payroll by then.

Then, no more big FA money newcomers until hopefully at least late into the 2020's? 

 

Cole is a must for me. But they must acquire enough to make Heaney the number 5 that he is.

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I get this weird sense that Bumgarner ends up in a similar situation to Keuchel.  Wanting 5/100 or more and just not getting the offers in that range.  

We've been through the 'will he spend more' discussion in the past.  Arte sets a budget.  He sticks pretty tightly to that budget.  He might expand it a bit for a short term deal but he's not gonna commits 6-7 years to Cole and another 3-4 years to bumgarner.  

The other thing to remember is that you don't have to pay Cole 30m every year.  You can back load a decent portion to after Albert and Upton are done.  

So maybe it's not Bumgarner but like @totdprods mentioned, a Hamels type for 1-2 years for 15m per while Cole is making 22m a year.  If it is Bumgarner it would have to be for a shorter term deal.  which is feasible but they'd have to wait till the end of the off season and then you risk how much time he ends up with in spring training.  

I don't think a trade for pitching will work out.  Eppler knows we just don't have the prospect currency for a top line starter at this point.  He'll have to work some magic to get a capable mid rotation and club controlled guy otherwise as I don't see him making a move for anyone who has less than 3 years of control.  

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First we need to consider our payroll situation and than decide what we can do and not do. Lucky i have done an estimate, (an i know it's an estimate, but i've done estimates the past 2 years and have been quite close to the actual number). After doing the math, we will have roughly around 50-58 mil available, and and addition 10 mil for in season improvements.  

First of all let checks the roster and see our needs.

Outfield

set at 2/3 positions

declining Kole's option will be the right Decision. than try to resign him to a 2 year deal, where the second year is an option and first year at 7 mil. I believe that 7 mil is a reasonable price tag on kole's value. Benefits of this is that kole get's to show team that his power spice was not a flue, while the angels save money. If Kole's gets a better deal we can stay with Goodwin further saving money. 

Infiled

Set. can't move pujol's from 1st, Simmon's is at SS, than we have the great Fletcher and La Stella at 2nd/3rd

C is a need and we should wait until we can get a starter 

Bp

Set.

But Garcia get's non tender and Ramirez may or may not get tender a contract

 

Sp

Our Need

so far our starting 5 are; Ohtani, Heaney, Canning, Barria and Peters???

now here come the 50+ mil we have for this free agencies 

Cole is a must get, will take a good chunk of that 50 mil

Lets say we do sign Cole and Eppler function is contract similar to that of upton, and his first season's he making 20-25 mil, leaving 25+ for another starter

we can go after another top of the rotation arm.

Personally i believe that Bumgarner is risk, and someone like Hamels would be the better choice. a contract around 2yrs- 36/60 mil

 buy low candiate(s) to consider are

Rich Hill, he's going to be 41 so a big risk and has injury concerns. But would not cost much and may provide solid underhand value. contract 1yr 5-7 mil

Alex Wood, cheap contract may look for a one year deal

 

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Could, yes i believe he could.
Should... not so sure.
It coems down to what MadBum gets paid as, he shouldnt get paid as a #1 at this point, if he does than should becomes no.  If he gets paid in the 2-3 range, then yeah, why not. 
As Strad said your looking north of 50M for both probably, if MadBum isnt MadBum we hope, thats gonna hurt for a while. 

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