TB last night, what do you guys think of this?

[floplag]

So last night apparently in an 8-3 game TB punted and conceded the game against Bos by using a position player to pitch the ninth.  
Now in their defense the math isn't out of line, their odds of coming back were slim to none, and thier pitchers were gassed from recent outings, but this isnt something we typically see in a 5 run game.
Im curious what you guys think of this...
My view is not positive, i think it sends a poor message to the fans that paid to watch the game, and that this is one of those times where the math creates poor situations that make little to no sense competitively.   
If the Angels did this i would not be happy.

[tdawg87]

Sounds like Manfred called them up and told them to do that. Gotta get that Yankees/Red Sox playoff heat!!!

 

 

 

I'm kidding btw. Kinda.

[Angel Oracle]

Was the guy someone who had previously pitched in the minors or majors?   If so, it could be construed like the Halos putting Walsh in to pitch.  

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Was the guy someone who had previously pitched in the minors or majors?   If so, it could be construed like the Halos putting Walsh in to pitch.  

To my knowledge, no, it was his major league debut per the article.  Based on what i saw.. definitely no, see for yourself at the link below.   lol  its was a pure punt, unless someone has info i didn't see in what i read. 

 

 

[Angel Oracle]

Indeed before yesterday, he had previously only pitched in 2 games (2 innings total, 1 BB, 1 K, 0 hits) in A ball back in 2017. 

That isn't exactly Jared Walsh out there, with the guy showing that very simplistic delivery.

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?player_id=670712#/career/R/pitching/2019/ALL

[eaterfan]

29 minutes ago, floplag said:

So last night apparently in an 8-3 game TB punted and conceded the game against Bos by using a position player to pitch the ninth.  
Now in their defense the math isn't out of line, their odds of coming back were slim to none, and thier pitchers were gassed from recent outings, but this isnt something we typically see in a 5 run game.
Im curious what you guys think of this...
My view is not positive, i think it sends a poor message to the fans that paid to watch the game, and that this is one of those times where the math creates poor situations that make little to no sense competitively.   
If the Angels did this i would not be happy.

How many Rays fans were at a Monday night game in the bottom of the 9th down 5 runs? I think being down 5 runs in the 9th sends a much worse message.

[floplag]

3 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

How many Rays fans were at a Monday night game in the bottom of the 9th down 5 runs? I think being down 5 runs in the 9th sends a much worse message.

This is a potential playoff team 1 game out of the WC and the team right behind them is the one they were playing, thats not right at all.  

[UndertheHalo]

as a fan im interested in what helps the team win games.  This game was 98% lost.  Save the bullpen bullets for when it matters.  

 

[TroutBaseball]

this was wisdom on display

[eaterfan]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

This is a potential playoff team 1 game out of the WC and the team right behind them is the one they were playing, thats not right at all.  

I'm sure the odds of victory were less than 1% so the move was right 99% of the time. Fans aren't stupid, especially the ones who stick around that late on weeknight at a stadium that is at least 30 minutes from everywhere. They understand the odds of winning are minuscule and the importance of resting relievers. Beyond that, with the way teams shuffle through minor league bullpen options you'd have to be fairly knowledgeable to know it was a position player at all. Also, is it much different than when a team brings in their gas can reliever after the starter gives up 6 in 1.1 innings? Either way the team isn't really trying their hardest to win. Yeah a gas can reliever is better than a starter, but 7.2 innings is a lot longer than 1.1.

[mmc]

I'd rather do this than have our bullpen die by August 15th.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

55 minutes ago, floplag said:

lol  its was a pure punt, unless someone has info i didn't see in what i read. 

Either punt or turn the ball over on downs....

[Taylor]

No one was in the stands, so the Rays probably did it for the lulz.

The Angels should have Pujols pitch the 9th inning next time they're being blown out.

[Broad Street]

I think it’s smart. Plus, what’s Manfred going to do? He can’t even figure out why the balls are flying out of the park or why Astros pitchers are racking up K’s at a superhuman pace. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Doesn't seem much different to me than pulling starters in a blowout which I've seen in the NFL, NBA and even MLB do this year when a pinch hitter or defender is put in.  No need to risk injury or run players ragged when the likelihood of a comeback is ridiculously small.  

[UndertheHalo]

4 minutes ago, Taylor said:

No one was in the stands, so the Rays probably did it for the lulz.

The Angels should have Pujols pitch the 9th inning next time they're being blown out.

I mean why not.  I’m sure that’ll give the booth plenty of legend of Pujols bullshit to prattle on about for the rest of the season. 

[Inside Pitch]

16 minutes ago, floplag said:

This is a potential playoff team 1 game out of the WC and the team right behind them is the one they were playing, thats not right at all.  

As a potential playoff team maybe they believed they were better served keeping their pitchers fresh for a winnable game than having them be wasted in a meaningless game.  Sometimes the math is there to keep the ego from getting in the way of winning.  I don't know what TB's mindset was but it it were the Angels and they trotted Buttrey out there I'd hate it more than them acknowledging the odds were against them. 

Somewhat related..... I used to get bent at Erstad when he would go full speed into a wall in the third game of the season and end up hurt or on the DL instead of playing it off the wall and keeping the runner in check.  Dude would miss weeks then take time getting his timing back ultimately costing the team a lot more than whatever could have happened on the play....  Fans loved the red-ass play but the team paid the price for it.

 

[floplag]

I must say i'm a bit surprised at some of the comments, but i now understand a few related things better.

[Taylor]

3 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

So who won the game?

We all did.

[floplag]

OK, so follow up, at what point do you feel this is or is not acceptable in general?  How big a lead, what percentage to win etc... ?  

[UndertheHalo]

30 minutes ago, floplag said:

OK, so follow up, at what point do you feel this is or is not acceptable in general?  How big a lead, what percentage to win etc... ?  

If you’re still in the game then use real pitchers. Im sure there were all kinds of specific circumstances that led to it.  Maybe the Rays pen got used heavily the night before or something.  Anyway, I don’t think it’s worth much thought.  Usually you see this stuff in blow outs. 

[floplag]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

If you’re still in the game then use real pitchers. Im sure there were all kinds of specific circumstances that led to it.  Maybe the Rays pen got used heavily the night before or something.  Anyway, I don’t think it’s worth much thought.  Usually you see this stuff in blow outs. 

OK but define still in the game?
We've established that 5 in the 9th is not worth the effort so how close does it have to be?  At what point does the math make the game worth playing?

[UndertheHalo]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

OK but define still in the game?
We've established that 5 in the 9th is not worth the effort so how close does it have to be?  At what point does the math make the game worth playing?

I don’t think it’s anything specific flop.  I think that depending on specific circumstances it usually is pretty clear what makes sense and what doesn’t.  I’m not saying that being down 5 runs is necessarily a guaranteed run up the white flag scenario. 

[floplag]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

I don’t think it’s anything specific flop.  I think that depending on specific circumstances it usually is pretty clear what makes sense and what doesn’t.  I’m not saying that being down 5 runs is necessarily a guaranteed run up the white flag scenario. 

But if were basing it on the math, as had been said here they have a very low percentage chance to win, at what point does that break even?
Im legit not being sarcastic here im just curious 

[Fish Oil]

10 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

 Maybe the Rays pen got used heavily the night before or something.  

Yepper. Their pen had been used heavily the previous several games including a double header. They made a  prudent choice.