Why Upton should move to 1B.....

[Jeff Fletcher]

16 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

Detroit is still sending Arte thank you cards for the salary relief they received in that deal. We traded for Upton to help us make a late season playoff push and we finished out that season 11-17. We are notorious for acquiring and overpaying players that used to be really good for somebody else but their former teams figured out it was time to move on from them. 

I am not referring to the decision to get Upton from the Tigers. (He was expected to opt out of Detroit and the minor leaguer the Angels sent was not highly rated, so that was a no brainer on both sides).

I am referring to the decision to give him the extra year in order to keep him. 

Lots of people here were certain Upton was going to opt-out and go sign for $150M. That was just before the FA market disappeared. There were some hints that it might be crashing, but it hadn’t yet. 

I think it was obviously wise of Upton to take the extra year instead of going on the mark. And from the Angels perspective, they were playing it safe by making sure he stayed, because filling that hole with someone else would have been tough. Also, when they renegotiated his deal they knocked about $5M off their 2018 payroll.

[mulwin444]

Just now, Calzone 2 said:

Detroit is still sending Arte thank you cards for the salary relief they received in that deal. We traded for Upton to help us make a late season playoff push and we finished out that season 11-17. We are notorious for acquiring and overpaying players that used to be really good for somebody else but their former teams figured out it was time to move on from them. 

Come on, dude.  We gave up nothing (a minor leaguer that never pitched again) and he put up 1 oWAR in 27 games with us.  There was a reason the Angels wanted to lock him up before he exercised his op out at the end of 2017 and, if he was never traded, he would have opted out anyway because Detroit was a dumpster fire.  Truth was, the Angels had no one offensively besides Trout.  Take a look at the line-up before the trade:

This was pre-Ohtani, Adell and Marsh were still in Orem, and we had no discernible offensive certainties so we went with the surest thing and signed Upton to an extension.  It made sense at the time but I think we have to consider Upton more of a neutral going forward...someone that put up near a "soft" 3.5-4 WAR per season and someone we will have to work around in the next couple of years.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

I think the general consensus when Upton was acquired was positive because as Mulwin pointed out aside from Trout and Simmons there wasn't much going right offensively.  He's has been as advertised - sub par defensively, streaky at the place but fine as the third or fourth best hitter in the lineup.  For the Angels he's hit 41 home runs in 193 games while his AVG, OBP and SLG have been fairly close to his career averages.

[Claude]

35 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I am not referring to the decision to get Upton from the Tigers. (He was expected to opt out of Detroit and the minor leaguer the Angels sent was not highly rated, so that was a no brainer on both sides).

I am referring to the decision to give him the extra year in order to keep him. 

Lots of people here were certain Upton was going to opt-out and go sign for $150M. That was just before the FA market disappeared. There were some hints that it might be crashing, but it hadn’t yet. 

I think it was obviously wise of Upton to take the extra year instead of going on the mark. And from the Angels perspective, they were playing it safe by making sure he stayed, because filling that hole with someone else would have been tough. Also, when they renegotiated his deal they knocked about $5M off their 2018 payroll.

 

33 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Come on, dude.  We gave up nothing (a minor leaguer that never pitched again) and he put up 1 oWAR in 27 games with us.  There was a reason the Angels wanted to lock him up before he exercised his op out at the end of 2017 and, if he was never traded, he would have opted out anyway because Detroit was a dumpster fire.  Truth was, the Angels had no one offensively besides Trout.  Take a look at the line-up before the trade:

This was pre-Ohtani, Adell and Marsh were still in Orem, and we had no discernible offensive certainties so we went with the surest thing and signed Upton to an extension.  It made sense at the time but I think we have to consider Upton more of a neutral going forward...someone that put up near a "soft" 3.5-4 WAR per season and someone we will have to work around in the next couple of years.

My point was that we didn’t need to renegotiate with Upton once we traded for him. We weren’t near the salary threshold so that $5M savings in 2018 was completely unnecessary. He wasn’t going to opt out because he wouldn’t have been awarded a better contract elsewhere. And so what, let someone else overpay. He wasn’t going anywhere. We were his 5th team already. He’s been a vagabond his entire career. As far as his production he’s absolutely better than what we had but he’s also getting paid a ton of money to do that. His defense is very shaky and he’s not a clutch hitter and he no longer steals bases. We are only 2 years in and we have knee tendinitis, turf toe and a tight quad. Geez how do we end up with these guys. End of rant.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Calzone 2

[Angel Oracle]

The RISP hitting since 2018 is a concern.   It’s no longer a small sample, granted this season started really late for him.

[Jeff Fletcher]

14 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

He wasn’t going to opt out because he wouldn’t have been awarded a better contract elsewhere.

My point is that’s easy to say in retrospect, but I don’t think it was that obvious at the time. 

 

15 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

We weren’t near the salary threshold so that $5M savings in 2018 was completely unnecessary. 

It wasn’t a 5M savings in terms of AAV. It was a $5M savings in actual salary. It has nothing to do with the threshold. They subsequently added $24M in Kinsler and Cozart. 

[mulwin444]

4 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

 

My point was that we didn’t need to renegotiate with Upton once we traded for him. We weren’t near the salary threshold so that $5M savings in 2018 was completely unnecessary. He wasn’t going to opt out because he wouldn’t have been awarded a better contract elsewhere. And so what, let someone else overpay. He wasn’t going anywhere. We were his 5th team already. He’s been a vagabond his entire career. As far as his production he’s absolutely better than what we had but he’s also getting paid a ton of money to do that. His defense is very shaky and he’s not a clutch hitter and he no longer steals bases. We are only 2 years in and we have knee tendinitis, turf toe and a tight quad. Geez how do we end up with these guys. End of rant.

A) You don't know if he would have opted out or not so stop B ) You don't know if you have received a better contract or not

Like Jeff Fletcher said, this was all before the free agent market at the end 2017 started declining and, at the time, guys like J.D. Martinez were seeking $200+ million deals.  It was the safe play for a team with money and with a serious lack of offensive prospects.  As for clutch-ness, Upton lifetime:

With the Tigers/Angels in 2017:

With the Angels in 2018:

So far in 2019:

His lack of "clutch-ness" is a recent phenomenon which sucks but hopefully corrects itself over time with more at bats.   

 

[happybat4]

Upton had a 3.8 WAR in 145 games last year. When was the last time we had a left fielder with a higher WAR? Upton was going to get paid from us or somebody else. He was only 29 when he opted out and just had a great year.

[Claude]

31 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

My point is that’s easy to say in retrospect, but I don’t think it was that obvious at the time. 

 

It wasn’t a 5M savings in terms of AAV. It was a $5M savings in actual salary. It has nothing to do with the threshold. They subsequently added $24M in Kinsler and Cozart. 

The $5M savings is nothing. There was plenty of unspent money. If you guys can rewind my post back in 2017-18. I dared him to opt-out. I’m not saying he’s a complete disaster but don’t ever expect him to go 110%. That play in left field the other day like a few of his others was atrocious. Can you imagine that lackluster effort happening in a playoff game? 

[Dtwncbad]

47 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

The RISP hitting since 2018 is a concern.   It’s no longer a small sample, granted this season started really late for him.

I am not really sure that stat always actually matters much.  Solo homers and doubles with a runner at first are also good things.

Upton puts up good numbers overall.  Do I really care if he drives in a run from second instead of driving in a run from first or hits a solo homer?

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Calzone 2 said:

Detroit is still sending Arte thank you cards for the salary relief they received in that deal. We traded for Upton to help us make a late season playoff push and we finished out that season 11-17. We are notorious for acquiring and overpaying players that used to be really good for somebody else but their former teams figured out it was time to move on from them. 

As notorious as you are for making things up?

Justin Upton's OPS+ as an Angel is 122 .vs a 121 career OPS+...   

As a Tiger, 120.  As a Padre,119.  As a DBack, 118.   He's been better as an Angel than he has anywhere save for Atlanta.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good narrative.

42 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

The $5M savings is nothing. There was plenty of unspent money. If you guys can rewind my post back in 2017-18. I dared him to opt-out. I’m not saying he’s a complete disaster but don’t ever expect him to go 110%. That play in left field the other day like a few of his others was atrocious. Can you imagine that lackluster effort happening in a playoff game? 

Actually you guaranteed he would, and that he would leave when he did. 

That was a banner off-season for you.  You mocked people who believed the Yanks would move on from Girardi, guaranteeing he would be retained.  You had the Angels out on Ohtani and wouldn't even make an effort.  You also went on and on about how he was going to be a Yankee because of endorsement etc etc.... and you were at the height of your Mike Trout is going to leave bullshit.  Pretty much every time you put hands to keyboard you spouted some bullshit narrative that completely blew up in your face and yet here we are....

May want to start stocking up on the get out of jail free merchandise... Lol...

[Claude]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

As notorious as you are for making things up?

Justin Upton's OPS+ as an Angel is 122 .vs a 121 career OPS+...   

As a Tiger, 120.  As a Padre,119.  As a DBack, 118.   He's been better as an Angel than he has anywhere save for Atlanta.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good narrative.

Actually you guaranteed he would, and that he would leave when he did. 

That was a banner off-season for you.  You mocked people who believed the Yanks would move on from Girardi, guaranteeing he would be retained.  You had the Angels out on Ohtani and wouldn't even make an effort.  You also went on and on about how he was going to be a Yankee because of endorsement etc etc.... and you were at the height of your Mike Trout is going to leave bullshit.  Pretty much every time you put hands to keyboard you spouted some bullshit narrative that completely blew up in your face and yet here we are....

May want to start stocking up on the get out of jail free merchandise... Lol...

What was the OP’s question again? And why did it need to be asked. There’s obviously a level of concern somewhere. I’m going to leave it at that. Go Upton, Go Angels. You fact checker!

[Inside Pitch]

I seriously hope all the Angels mistakes and overpays are as bad as Justin Upton's tenure to date in Anaheim.

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Calzone 2 said:

What was the OP’s question again? And why did it need to be asked. There’s obviously a level of concern somewhere. I’m going to leave it at that. Go Upton, Go Angels. You fact checker!

This is a clown comment, Bro.

The OP didn't ask any questions he made a statement, you fact dodger. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

 

[WeaverFever]

2 hours ago, mulwin444 said:

Come on, dude.  We gave up nothing (a minor leaguer that never pitched again) and he put up 1 oWAR in 27 games with us.  There was a reason the Angels wanted to lock him up before he exercised his op out at the end of 2017 and, if he was never traded, he would have opted out anyway because Detroit was a dumpster fire.  Truth was, the Angels had no one offensively besides Trout.  Take a look at the line-up before the trade:

This was pre-Ohtani, Adell and Marsh were still in Orem, and we had no discernible offensive certainties so we went with the surest thing and signed Upton to an extension.  It made sense at the time but I think we have to consider Upton more of a neutral going forward...someone that put up near a "soft" 3.5-4 WAR per season and someone we will have to work around in the next couple of years.

I can’t believe we competed for a playoff spot that year. 

 

*** I still remember Cliff Pennington’s grand slam against the A’s. I thought that year was going to be something special. 

[Duren, Duren]

Should be interesting Saturday night. I decided to take the two hour drive down to Seattle for the Angel game and got cheap seats in left field. I should have a good view of Upton on defense if he starts there. 

Traditionally teams try and hide their worst outfielder in left field. So Upton playing there is conventional. 

It's been a strange year for him. The injury set everything back, and his hot early return may have raised expectations. He seems off in his judgment of pitches at the plate and falls behind in the count more than I remember him doing before. Could be he is going through a bad spell and will eventually get on one of his hot streaks.

With his contract pretty much keeping him here  and career  offensive production you just have to accept the fact that he isn't going to be great on defense. Just part of his overall package. Hopefully his offense compensates for his defense. Not sure how good he would be at first base. Probably require a lot of practice and a few years of a slow transition. 

The team really misses La Stella right now with his versatility and bat.

[Claude]

43 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

 

They should’ve let him opt out and then negotiate him down. He had a $90M deal in his pocket at the time. But anyway what’s done is done. He’s a streaky hitter and a below average outfielder. He’s basically a DH.

[Dtwncbad]

42 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

They should’ve let him opt out and then negotiate him down. He had a $90M deal in his pocket at the time. But anyway what’s done is done. He’s a streaky hitter and a below average outfielder. He’s basically a DH.

Just noting that we have reached a point where we are complaining that Justin Upton sucks.

Wow this offense has come a long way.

[Slegnaac]

I miss Raul Ibanez 

[happybat4]

Vernon Wells, JB Shuck, Josh Hamilton, Matt Joyce, Raul Ibanez, Daniel Robertson, Colin Cowgill, Rafael Ortega, Daniel Nava, Craig Gentry, Ben Revere, Eric Young Jr., and Shane Robinson have all seen significant time in left field the last half decade. And here we are complaining about Justin freaking Upton. 

 

[tdawg87]

8 minutes ago, happybat4 said:

Vernon Wells, JB Shuck, Josh Hamilton, Matt Joyce, Raul Ibanez, Daniel Robertson, Colin Cowgill, Rafael Ortega, Daniel Nava, Craig Gentry, Ben Revere, Eric Young Jr., and Shane Robinson have all seen significant time in left field the last half decade. And here we are complaining about Justin freaking Upton. 

 

On AW you're either Mike Trout, or you suck.

[TroutAdell]

Unfortunately, Upton won’t be traded unless the Angels eat a massive amount of money. Also, he is over 30, that is another strike against him. 

[Tank]

9 hours ago, Duren, Duren said:

Should be interesting Saturday night. I decided to take the two hour drive down to Seattle for the Angel game and got cheap seats in left field. I should have a good view of Upton on defense if he starts there. 

you should make a point of talking to upton at some point and telling him that several overweight white guys with computers in SoCal think he'll have no problem switching to playing first base next year, and see what he says.

 

[Claude]

11 minutes ago, Tank said:

you should make a point of talking to upton at some point and telling him that dozens of overweight white guys with computers in SoCal think he'll have to problem switching to playing first base next year, and see what he says.

 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Calzone 2