Trout batting second is a bust

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

No set rule ... depends on the team. We do know the team hasn’t benefited much with Trout batting second.

Rengifo? We bat him third and out another low ob% guy in front of him,

[stormngt]

2 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

Goodwin leadoff (.429 OBP), Fletcher 2nd (.351), LaStella 3rd (.349), Trout 4th, Ohtani 5th

FIFY

So there is a possibility that the best player in the game has to wait until the 2nd inning to bat?

[Troll Daddy]

10 minutes ago, stormngt said:

So there is a possibility that the best player in the game has to wait until the 2nd inning to bat?

Bellinger bats fourth ... but no, I would like to see him bat third the rest of the season. 

[Docwaukee]

the lineup that's been used so far (based on stats including subs) should average 4.514 runs per game.  Which would be 131 runs.  We've actually scored 136 runs.  

the perfect batting order would net 4.605 runs which would be 134 runs.  

So Ausmus lineups have netted 2 more runs than the math would imply for the best lineup.  

https://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/LineupAnalysis.py?Player0=first&OBA0=.319&Slug0=.430&Player1=second&OBA1=.439&Slug1=.495&Player2=third&OBA2=.303&Slug2=.434&Player3=fourth&OBA3=.315&Slug3=.435&Player4=fifth&OBA4=.328&Slug4=.356&Player5=sixth&OBA5=.316&Slug5=.381&Player6=seventh&OBA6=.351&Slug6=.447&Player7=eighth&OBA7=.333&Slug7=.440&Player8=ninth&OBA8=.196&Slug8=.220&Model=1

[Troll Daddy]

4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

the lineup that's been used so far (based on stats including subs) should average 4.514 runs per game.  Which would be 131 runs.  We've actually scored 136 runs.  

the perfect batting order would net 4.605 runs which would be 134 runs.  

So Ausmus lineups have netted 2 more runs than the math would imply for the best lineup.  

https://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/LineupAnalysis.py?Player0=first&OBA0=.319&Slug0=.430&Player1=second&OBA1=.439&Slug1=.495&Player2=third&OBA2=.303&Slug2=.434&Player3=fourth&OBA3=.315&Slug3=.435&Player4=fifth&OBA4=.328&Slug4=.356&Player5=sixth&OBA5=.316&Slug5=.381&Player6=seventh&OBA6=.351&Slug6=.447&Player7=eighth&OBA7=.333&Slug7=.440&Player8=ninth&OBA8=.196&Slug8=.220&Model=1

[Docwaukee]

here is the optimal lineup with our current most AB at each position.  

https://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/LineupAnalysis.py?Player0=Calhoun&OBA0=+0.291&Slug0=.452&Player1=Trout&OBA1=+.496&Slug1=+.585&Player2=Bour&OBA2=.273&Slug2=.333&Player3=Simmons&OBA3=.300&Slug3=.444&Player4=Pujols&OBA4=.330&Slug4=.414&Player5=Goodwin&OBA5=.422&Slug5=.539&Player6=La+Stella&OBA6=.349&Slug6=.541&Player7=Lucroy&OBA7=.311&Slug7=.313&Player8=Fletcher&OBA8=.351&Slug8=.409&Model=1

 

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

so you agree that Trout should lead off?  

[Docwaukee]

they should move Upton to 1b now.  

[Rico]

Trout should lead off.  1. Trout, 2. Ohtani, 3. Upton 

[Lou]

Trout should be the closer 

[Tank]

11 minutes ago, Lou said:

Trout should be the closer 

and the DH.

[Angelsjunky]

3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

There's only one real bust to talk about today:

[Angel Oracle]

Fletcher (3B), Goodwin (LF), Trout (CF), Ohtani (DH), Simba (SS), LaStella (2B), Pujols/Bour (1B), Lucroy/Smith (C), Calhoun (RF)

Righty/Lefty balance  

[T.G.]

Trout should hit 1st, 4th and 7th. 

[Stradling]

Trout batting 2nd makes the most sense.  If you want to ride the hot streak of a guy like Goodwin and bat him in front of Trout that is fine, but if you do that then Goodwin should be leading off and Trout batting 2nd.  

[Troll Daddy]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Trout batting 2nd makes the most sense.  If you want to ride the hot streak of a guy like Goodwin and bat him in front of Trout that is fine, but if you do that then Goodwin should be leading off and Trout batting 2nd.  

I see Trout more of a RBI guy now ... you have a better chance of scoring more often with two obp players in front of him. I think it also puts more pressure on the pitcher to challenge him. Then Trout needs to steal more often if they continue to pitch around him batting second. 

It will be interesting to see the lineup with Ohtani and Upton in it. 

 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Troll Daddy said:

I see Trout more of a RBI guy now ... you have a better chance of scoring more often with two obp players in front of him. I think it also puts more pressure on the pitcher to challenge him. Then Trout needs to steal more often if they continue to pitch around him batting second. 

It will be interesting to see the lineup with Ohtani and Upton in it. 

 

So then bat a OBP guy 1st and 9th and get Trout batting 2nd so he still gets the 20 extra at bats a season.  

[Troll Daddy]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

So then bat a OBP guy 1st and 9th and get Trout batting 2nd so he still gets the 20 extra at bats a season.  

I hope you don’t believe getting 20 extra AB’s means anything in a 162 game season. That’s the last reason why you would bat him second imo. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Troll Daddy said:

I hope you don’t believe getting 20 extra AB’s means anything in a 162 game season. That’s the last reason why you would him second imo. 

I truly believe that getting the best player more at bats is a good thing.  

[stormngt]

12 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

Bellinger bats fourth ... but no, I would like to see him bat third the rest of the season. 

I think it is very stupid to put what is clearly your best hitter and best player in a game where there is a chance he will not bat in the first inning.  I don't know the reasoning why Bellinger bats 4th.  I do know he is not Trout, and the Angels do not have the offensive hitters that the Dodgers have.  

[Troll Daddy]

 

 

12 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I truly believe that getting the best player more at bats is a good thing.  

Winning is a good thing. Getting one extra AB every ten games or so is meaningless ...  it comes down to winning the game at hand. 

We could debate this all day long  ... there probably isn’t a definitive answer. 

[Angel Oracle]

Trout supplies power.   Get two OBP guys in front of him, with him batting 3rd and Ohtani protecting him in the cleanup spot.    Case closed.

[eligrba]

This thread seems WeatherWonky.

[Troll Daddy]

6 hours ago, stormngt said:

I think it is very stupid to put what is clearly your best hitter and best player in a game where there is a chance he will not bat in the first inning.  I don't know the reasoning why Bellinger bats 4th.  I do know he is not Trout, and the Angels do not have the offensive hitters that the Dodgers have.  

Old school thinking ... leads MLB in RBIs 

[stormngt]

5 hours ago, Randy Gradishar said:

Cleanup hitter either leads off or has men on. #3 hitter sees 2 outs and bases empty more than any spot in the lineup.

The only thing you can't do is bat Trout 3rd. Math says Trout, Upton, and Ohtani have to be in the 1, 2, and 4 spots.

Trout at leadoff is actually interesting; his rookie season is still somehow his best by far. Was it the steals, playing LF, or batting leadoff?

I like him at lead off.  I think it's stupid to have him in a position where he may not come up to bat in the first inning.  And with a greater likelihood that he only gets 4 at bats instead of 5 at a game.