Lefties bunting against the shift?

[floplag]

7 hours ago, yk9001 said:

That's why i get bummed when people denounce the shifts.  I love the shifts.  its a different alignment than i've seen my whole life.

 

It's the approach to the shifts that is disappointing.

I'm on board here as well, the game will always change. the players need to adjust.  In this case they just seem to want to complain and try to hit right into the defense just like the other team  wants them to.
Im not a fan of overused advanced analytics, or the three true outcomes, but i dont see defensive shifts in that light at all.   Shifts have always been part of the game, perhaps not to the recent extremes but theyve been there.

[floplag]

4 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Stop being obsessed with batting average.

The major league average right now is about .245, I think. But there are still plenty of runs, because of walks and homers. 

Isnt this a problem though?  Thats a horrendous number.  Yet were told to ignore it. 
I get the why, i understand the analytics, but it just seems to be hurting the game more than helping it.  Guys looking to walk over hit and a number that would get you demoted in the past is now the norm as long as you draw some walks.  Not to mention slowing the game down in the face of baseballs movement to do exactly the opposite.
Its just kinda hard to stomach being told dont worry about actual hitting. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

22 minutes ago, floplag said:

Isnt this a problem though?  Thats a horrendous number.  Yet were told to ignore it. 
I get the why, i understand the analytics, but it just seems to be hurting the game more than helping it.  Guys looking to walk over hit and a number that would get you demoted in the past is now the norm as long as you draw some walks.  Not to mention slowing the game down in the face of baseballs movement to do exactly the opposite.
Its just kinda hard to stomach being told dont worry about actual hitting. 

It is a problem, but it’s not Kole Calhoun’s problem. MLB needs to change some big things in order to reverse this trend. 

Part of it is simply that pitchers throw too hard now. It’s hard to make contact and hard to string together 3 hits. Also, the defensive players are better than ever. 

The most efficient way to score is to try to hit home runs. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

20 minutes ago, RBM said:

The pitches I've seen him hit the other way were not hard hit balls - weak grounders and pop ups. The result of being out front and hitting off the end of the bat. If he could make the adjustment and drive the outside pitch the other way his numbers would improve. I just don't think it's possible for him to change from a pure pull hitter at this stage of his career.

Yeah, it would be good if he could hit the ball as hard the other way as he hits it to the pull side. 

But then he wouldn’t be Kole Calhoun. He’d be Mike Trout. 

[Blarg]

He doesn't need to hit it hard the other way when there is no infielder on the third base side. He just needs to strong bunt that direction to pass the pitcher and get it to no man's land. 

Yes, it would only be a single. But the other night with Fletcher on 1st and Trout on deck, moving the runner and getting on base is the outcome you want. Not another hard hit ball to the right side that is an out. 

This game that is being played does not including role players. I think the team that figures out how to create defined roles again will win more games. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

7 minutes ago, Blarg said:

He doesn't need to hit it hard the other way when there is no infielder on the third base side. He just needs to strong bunt that direction to pass the pitcher and get it to no man's land. 

Yes, it would only be a single. But the other night with Fletcher on 1st and Trout on deck, moving the runner and getting on base is the outcome you want. Not another hard hit ball to the right side that is an out. 

This game that is being played does not including role players. I think the team that figures out how to create defined roles again will win more games. 

I think you make it sound easier than it is. 

[Lou]

46 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think you make it sound easier than it is. 

you should hear these guys try to tell Trout how it hit. 

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think you make it sound easier than it is. 

Right now the easy thing is for him not to adapt and keep hitting into a shift. And then next season he will be hoping for a minor league deal. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Right now the easy thing is for him not to adapt and keep hitting into a shift. And then next season he will be hoping for a minor league deal. 

As I think I’ve illustrated many times here, the shift is not his problem. 

It is the knee-jerk assumption.

[Blarg]

Jeff, with all due respect, playing by the rules of over the line is really stupid for any hitter. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Jeff, with all due respect, playing by the rules of over the line is really stupid for any hitter. 

I went on and on about this in some thread over the winter. You can search it. 

The point is he’s a pull hitter. He’s a pull hitter when he’s super hot and when he’s super cold. The differences are thinks like strikeouts and ground balls and just general poor timing which makes you pull it weakly instead of hard. 

You can dream about him flipping some switch and not being a pull hitter. While you’re at it, you should tell Tyler Skaggs to work on throwing 99. It’s not who he is. 

No, Calhoun is never going to be a .300 hitter with his current set of tools. Jonathan Lucroy is also not going to steal 30 bases. 

[Claude]

Bunting is a lost skill. It’s like asking someone to play defense in the NBA. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Calzone 2

[Jay]

7 hours ago, Vladdylonglegs said:

How many of those 12 ABs was it a bunted ball to third base?

Yeah I was going to ask how many of those 12 are bad/late swing and how many were bunts or otherwise intentionally hit that direction?

Also, didn't they used to teach players to bunt to help them break out of a hitting slump?

[Stradling]

I’m sure you guys have noticed that when the play you to pull they also pitch you to pull.  So bunting an inside fastball the opposite way is also very hard to do.  

[Jay]

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’m sure you guys have noticed that when the play you to pull they also pitch you to pull.  So bunting an inside fastball the opposite way is also very hard to do.  

Maybe but this chart doesn't really show that.

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, Jay said:

Maybe but this chart doesn't really show that.

Yes, it does.  It shows exactly that.  He’s getting pitched up and in more that twice as much up and away.  He’s being pitched middle in twice as much as middle away.  Down and in which is the lefties sweet spot is still being pitched more than down and away.  Unless I am reading this wrong   Jay help me out, what am I missing?  

Also when talking about bunting take away all two strike pitches, because he isn’t bunting those. 

[Jay]

You might be right.

I interpreted the chart as total number of pitches thrown to those areas. This is from the catcher's POV so Kole would be on the right side of this chart. Therefore the majority of the pitches (62) are up and away to him.

I'm not an expert though, maybe somebody can set me straight.

But yeah if you have a shift on you want the LHH to pull into the shift so you would pitch them inside. Theoretically that makes sense but in the real world how well is that executed? And, do you always want to throw pitches into the LHH wheelhouse?

Chart experts?

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

You might be right.

I interpreted the chart as total number of pitches thrown to those areas. This is from the catcher's POV so Kole would be on the right side of this chart. Therefore the majority of the pitches (62) are up and away to him.

I'm not an expert though, maybe somebody can set me straight.

But yeah if you have a shift on you want the LHH to pull into the shift so you would pitch them inside. Theoretically that makes sense but in the real world how well is that executed? 

Chart experts?

Oh I read it opposite, so I could be wrong.  I read it like 62 pitches were up and in to the lefty.  If I am wrong then my bad.  

As far as how well is it executed, my belief is with how hard they throw these days they miss their spots more than they once did and pay the price of missing that spot a lot less often because of the bigger margin of error when you throw that hard.  Once again that is just the eye test, I could be wrong.  

[T.G.]

This is one of those conversations where people just have to agree to disagree.  Some think bunting a baseball wherever you want is easy.  Others realize it's not that easy.  You can't really convince either side to change their mind.

[arch stanton]

I don't think it's as simple as pitching him inside to make him pull. The shift is primarily intended for ground balls and you're more likely to hit a ground ball on a pitch away that you roll over. Those fastballs up and away are likely to be hit in the air the other way but not really with authority. Those are the lazy fly balls and soft liners.

[Blarg]

8 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I went on and on about this in some thread over the winter. You can search it. 

The point is he’s a pull hitter. He’s a pull hitter when he’s super hot and when he’s super cold. The differences are thinks like strikeouts and ground balls and just general poor timing which makes you pull it weakly instead of hard. 

You can dream about him flipping some switch and not being a pull hitter. While you’re at it, you should tell Tyler Skaggs to work on throwing 99. It’s not who he is. 

No, Calhoun is never going to be a .300 hitter with his current set of tools. Jonathan Lucroy is also not going to steal 30 bases. 

I'm not asking him to be Rod Carew and hit to all fields. I'm just saying that if in the NL they can teach pitchers to bunt that have no skills hitting at all and never really practice hitting, then Calhoun should be able to master that one talent, to the point he can force the defense to defend the play, it would open up the field. It is neither unreasonable nor impossible for him to do. 

[floplag]

14 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

It is a problem, but it’s not Kole Calhoun’s problem. MLB needs to change some big things in order to reverse this trend. 

Part of it is simply that pitchers throw too hard now. It’s hard to make contact and hard to string together 3 hits. Also, the defensive players are better than ever. 

The most efficient way to score is to try to hit home runs. 

Fair point, but i cant help but wonder if the impact of how the game has evolved is much more of a negative, especially in terms of marketing the game or speeding the game up, the two appear in opposition. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 minute ago, Blarg said:

I'm not asking him to be Rod Carew and hit to all fields. I'm just saying that if in the NL they can teach pitchers to bunt that have no skills hitting at all and never really practice hitting, then Calhoun should be able to master that one talent, to the point he can force the defense to defend the play, it would open up the field. It is neither unreasonable nor impossible for him to do. 

They teach pitchers to sacrifice. Not to bunt for a hit. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

Fair point, but i cant help but wonder if the impact of how the game has evolved is much more of a negative, especially in terms of marketing the game or speeding the game up, the two appear in opposition. 

I agree with you 100 percent. I would rather the game have more balls in play. But that’s a bigger issue than Kole Calhoun. He’s got to do what he can do to be successful.

I think one solution would be to somehow limit pitching so you’re forced to have pitchers throw more pitches, so they have to pitch to contact. 

[Blarg]

If the defense shifted like they do with Calhoun it wouldn't be a sacrifice. Your argument isn't moving your position forward.