Starting Pitcher Trade Targets

[ten ocho recon scout]

I see a guy like Happ getting signed, as unsexy as that sounds. With trout getting extended, and a few smaller moves.

[totdprods]

8 hours ago, stormngt said:

How does Barria, arguably the most consistent pitcher on the staff not have a spot on the mlb roster?

The rest of the post explained it, and it was a pretty unlikely scenario.

It's only happening if they'd be acquiring two proven SPs, and deciding to keep Shoemaker, and keeping him in the rotation, and only going with a 5-man rotation, and only if everyone's healthy. 

Basically, it isn't happening, but if such a scenario were to somehow occur, Barria could be, I don't want to say squeezed out, but rather put in a position where they are better prepared to 1) maintain his innings by rotating him through AAA on occasion, skipping a start here or there, etc. (he's only thrown over 100 innings three times, and no more than 141) and 2) put the team in a position where they don't have to rely on him at his ceiling in his second season. He'll only be 22, his peripherals suggest a little bit of luck, and if history tells us anything, one of the Top 5 will be injured a few weeks into the season and this will all be moot anyways. 

Weaver, Lackey, maybe Santana all came up at a young age and pitched very well their first season and then took a step back in their second and third years, so if Barria goes through a similar learning curve next season, it wouldn't hurt to have the depth to reboot him in AAA. And yeah, we might have that, we might not.

Basically, if Barria starts 2019 as our 6th best/MLB tested SP, that's not a bad thing, and it'd take a pretty extraordinary offseason.

[eligrba]

13 hours ago, YouthofToday said:

Really? There are at least 10-15 other teams that will be in on him. He would cost far more than you think. 

Pass. Mileage is too high and injuries becoming too frequent. 

[Torridd]

On 9/29/2018 at 9:06 PM, Sean-Regan said:

Starting pitching isn’t a luxury. Their lineup isn’t the issue, the issue is and has been for a long time their rotation. Until that is dealt with, they will be at best a mediocre team. The rotation is priority #1 and nothing else comes anywhere close. 

I don't agree with this. We've had a lot of bad luck in the rotation, but I think the arms are capable when healthy. Would I like a dependable ace? Sure. But I don't think it's a priority over our other needs.

[floplag]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

The rest of the post explained it, and it was a pretty unlikely scenario.

It's only happening if they'd be acquiring two proven SPs, and deciding to keep Shoemaker, and keeping him in the rotation, and only going with a 5-man rotation, and only if everyone's healthy. 

Basically, it isn't happening, but if such a scenario were to somehow occur, Barria could be, I don't want to say squeezed out, but rather put in a position where they are better prepared to 1) maintain his innings by rotating him through AAA on occasion, skipping a start here or there, etc. (he's only thrown over 100 innings three times, and no more than 141) and 2) put the team in a position where they don't have to rely on him at his ceiling in his second season. He'll only be 22, his peripherals suggest a little bit of luck, and if history tells us anything, one of the Top 5 will be injured a few weeks into the season and this will all be moot anyways. 

Weaver, Lackey, maybe Santana all came up at a young age and pitched very well their first season and then took a step back in their second and third years, so if Barria goes through a similar learning curve next season, it wouldn't hurt to have the depth to reboot him in AAA. And yeah, we might have that, we might not.

Basically, if Barria starts 2019 as our 6th best/MLB tested SP, that's not a bad thing, and it'd take a pretty extraordinary offseason.

See this is where i part with the SP argument.  How do you plan to get enough better people that proven guys we have get bumped?  How does that happen with the resources we have?  Word is we have around 30 mil to spend, that doesnt get you 2 guys better than what we have and fill the rest of the needs.  
We have a bulk of mid rotation guys, to truly be an upgrade they would have to be in the #1 conversation, that doesnt fit in our resource plan. 
It isnt that i wouldnt like one, or think getting one has merit, it comes down to realistic evaluation of the costs.

[Dick B Back]

15 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

From today's presser...

 

Reliability = Bartolo.

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

How do you plan to get enough better people that proven guys we have get bumped?  How does that happen with the resources we have?  Word is we have around 30 mil to spend, that doesnt get you 2 guys better than what we have and fill the rest of the needs.  

Option 1A:
Trade for one...
We have the prospect currency to package 2-3 guys not named Adell or Canning and land someone in the Wheeler, Bundy, Urena, Junis, Teheran, Roark, etc. range. 
Guys who are #3-4 at a minimum, #2 or even flukey #1 production at best. 
Option 1B:
Trade for a big one. Bumgarner, Syndergaard, etc.

Result:
1. Skaggs,
2. (Option #1A Trade),
3. Shoemaker,
4. Heaney,
5. (Option #2A FA),
with your 6th SP as Barria and AAA depth as Pena, Canning, etc.
 
OR

Option 2A:
Sign someone cheap like Gio, Sabathia, Happ, Colon, Ross, Hellickson, Lynn, Sanchez for 1-yr. 
Option 2B:
Trade someone with some injury issues (Shoemaker/Skaggs) for a position player of need (a good C, a good 2B/3B, a new RF)
Sign Corbin/Keuchel to replace them, sign a cheap vet as in Option 2A.
This is the only option that costs a lot of $$$, but still brings in up to 3 new SP - a trade, a big name FA SP, and an innings-eater SP.

Result:
1. (Option #1B Trade),
2. (Option #2B FA),
3. one of Skaggs/Shoemaker,
4. Heaney,
5. (Option #2A FA),
with your 6th SP as Barria and AAA depth as Pena, Canning, etc.

There's a scenario that brings in two SP and potentially creates a 5-man rotation in which Barria could be the 6th best/MLB-proven SP. 

1 hour ago, floplag said:

We have a bulk of mid rotation guys, to truly be an upgrade they would have to be in the #1 conversation, that doesnt fit in our resource plan.

No, we don't. We have a bunch of injured guys who can't stay together for a full season, who have a ceiling of mid-rotation guys. 
To truly be an upgrade, they need to be able to make 25 GS and pitch 160+ innings, and beat this:
The 5th SP (Tropeano, Despaigne, McGuire, Lamb, J.C. Ramirez, Noe Ramirez, Johnson, Cole, Bridwell):
32 GS, 122 IP, 9.2 K/9, 2.30 WHIP, 6.88 ERA

That's not mid-rotation. That's not even MLB rotation. Yet we've had basically that same result two of the last three seasons...~8 guys (mostly relievers or minor leaguers) making a whole rotation slot worth of starts with an awful line. 

Shoemaker? 21 GS last two seasons. 
Skaggs? 34 GS last three seasons, no more than 24 in a year. 
Barria? 22 with only three years of 100+ innings, and no more than 140
Pena? A converted reliever, just like Bridwell and Ramirez, who's arms blew up a year after converting.
Heaney? Yeah, I actually think he makes 30+ GS.

We do not have a bulk of mid-rotation guys. Three years sample-size at this point proves that. 
We cannot rely on Skaggs, Shoe, Barria, Heaney, and Pena to each make 30+ GS next year. Four of them likely don't even make it. Maybe three.

And as a general rule, if I were a GM, I'd go into each season assuming I'd lose the three worst-possible guys to TJS as a way to properly cover my ass with enough depth.
A couple months back, I listed those as Ohtani (due to his impact) and Barria and Canning (due to their age, cost, and fact they're really our only RHP SP), so to roll into 2019 expecting Jaime Barria to be a rotation fixture seems like quite a gamble. History, and peripherals, suggest he will face some sophomore slump and is as much an injury risk as any other SP we have, so why not mitigate his potential injury/production concern by stacking the rotation? If he produces and is healthy, he'll still get his starts.

I think there's like a 5% chance of this actually being feasible. If they go with a 6-man rotation again, alllll of that is moot, and I think they will employ that again.

[floplag]

13 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Option 1A:
Trade for one...
We have the prospect currency to package 2-3 guys not named Adell or Canning and land someone in the Wheeler, Bundy, Urena, Junis, Teheran, Roark, etc. range. 
Guys who are #3-4 at a minimum, #2 or even flukey #1 production at best. 
Option 1B:
Trade for a big one. Bumgarner, Syndergaard, etc.

Result:
1. Skaggs,
2. (Option #1A Trade),
3. Shoemaker,
4. Heaney,
5. (Option #2A FA),
with your 6th SP as Barria and AAA depth as Pena, Canning, etc.
 
OR

Option 2A:
Sign someone cheap like Gio, Sabathia, Happ, Colon, Ross, Hellickson, Lynn, Sanchez for 1-yr. 
Option 2B:
Trade someone with some injury issues (Shoemaker/Skaggs) for a position player of need (a good C, a good 2B/3B, a new RF)
Sign Corbin/Keuchel to replace them, sign a cheap vet as in Option 2A.
This is the only option that costs a lot of $$$, but still brings in up to 3 new SP - a trade, a big name FA SP, and an innings-eater SP.

Result:
1. (Option #1B Trade),
2. (Option #2B FA),
3. one of Skaggs/Shoemaker,
4. Heaney,
5. (Option #2A FA),
with your 6th SP as Barria and AAA depth as Pena, Canning, etc.

There's a scenario that brings in two SP and potentially creates a 5-man rotation in which Barria could be the 6th best/MLB-proven SP. 

No, we don't. We have a bunch of injured guys who can't stay together for a full season, who have a ceiling of mid-rotation guys. 
To truly be an upgrade, they need to be able to make 25 GS and pitch 160+ innings, and beat this:
The 5th SP (Tropeano, Despaigne, McGuire, Lamb, J.C. Ramirez, Noe Ramirez, Johnson, Cole, Bridwell):
32 GS, 122 IP, 9.2 K/9, 2.30 WHIP, 6.88 ERA

That's not mid-rotation. That's not even MLB rotation. Yet we've had basically that same result two of the last three seasons...~8 guys (mostly relievers or minor leaguers) making a whole rotation slot worth of starts with an awful line. 

Shoemaker? 21 GS last two seasons. 
Skaggs? 34 GS last three seasons, no more than 24 in a year. 
Barria? 22 with only three years of 100+ innings, and no more than 140
Pena? A converted reliever, just like Bridwell and Ramirez, who's arms blew up a year after converting.
Heaney? Yeah, I actually think he makes 30+ GS.

We do not have a bulk of mid-rotation guys. Three years sample-size at this point proves that. 
We cannot rely on Skaggs, Shoe, Barria, Heaney, and Pena to each make 30+ GS next year. Four of them likely don't even make it. Maybe three.

And as a general rule, if I were a GM, I'd go into each season assuming I'd lose the three worst-possible guys to TJS as a way to properly cover my ass with enough depth.
A couple months back, I listed those as Ohtani (due to his impact) and Barria and Canning (due to their age, cost, and fact they're really our only RHP SP), so to roll into 2019 expecting Jaime Barria to be a rotation fixture seems like quite a gamble. History, and peripherals, suggest he will face some sophomore slump and is as much an injury risk as any other SP we have, so why not mitigate his potential injury/production concern by stacking the rotation? If he produces and is healthy, he'll still get his starts.

I think there's like a 5% chance of this actually being feasible. If they go with a 6-man rotation again, alllll of that is moot, and I think they will employ that again.

I think you miss the point, allow me to re-phrase... how do you do that AND fill the rest of the roster needs?  

With regard to SP I see no point in acquiring or signing anyone as a starter that isnt a clear and obvious upgrade, an ace.  Acquiring more of what we already have, IE mid rotation guys, makes little to know sense to me in the face of other concerns.  This is the basic point of my argument combined with limited resources.   

1A- I dont see it, almost no way you get a top guys without giving up top prospects.  
1B- This Is taking on money.  MadBum isnt a huge deal but its still a large chuck of available resources for a guy with injury issues, see comment above about obviously better.  Sindegaard is going to get a huge bump in Arb, hes not getting another 3 mil deal for example. 
2A- See comment about obviously better again, if they are cheap they are not likely better, perhaps more innings but not better quality. 
2B- Whose trading a top guy for Shoe right now?   Signing one of those guys is a 15-20 mil commitment.  Doesnt leave much left for other concerns. 
 

I dont hate your ideas, they are well thought out, but almost all of them eat up 2/3 of the available resources, how do we fill the rest of the needs with 10 mil?  Were going to have to make a few hard choices in terms of priorities, and worrying about an area that we clearly have depth, even if it isnt the most reliable depth, seems a luxury in the face of other needs where we dont have depth.   

We need a starting C, we need an anchor in the pen, we need a LH 1B option, we need a possible upgrade on the infield at either 2B or 3B, and we may need a RF.  Heck, for that matter to open the year we need a DH unless you assume Pujols there which is likely then we need a full time 1B.   These things must come first in my opinion.  Then if you want to make a deal for that ace with whats left over... go for it.  For me thats the final piece, not the first.  And no before someone chimes in about the order not mattering you are correct assuming it all gets done, i simply feel doing this one first limits what we will be able to do elsewhere.  

[Troll Daddy]

Pitching pitching pitching 

“The general manager said he’s more comfortable with the internal options among the everyday players, so his outside shopping is going to be focused on pitching.

 

We are going to be in the pitching market, both in the starting and relief market,” Eppler said Monday. “What that’s going to yield, that’s hard to predict, but we’re going to have a lot of conversations.”

[Fish Oil]

I kinda like Ryu. After coming off the DL he put up solid numbers.

[totdprods]

23 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Pitching pitching pitching 

“The general manager said he’s more comfortable with the internal options among the everyday players, so his outside shopping is going to be focused on pitching.

 

We are going to be in the pitching market, both in the starting and relief market,” Eppler said Monday. “What that’s going to yield, that’s hard to predict, but we’re going to have a lot of conversations.”

@floplag - this is sort of what I'm referring to.

Eppler might stack the deck with pitching, and only be opportunistic when it comes to position played improvements, like you mentioned for C, LH 1B, 2B/3B, or RF. 

They seem fairly comfortable with Arcia/Briceno at C, though I'm expecting one more brought in. Fernandez, Thaiss, and Walsh probably are the LH 1B you mentioned. RF will be Calhoun barring something dramatic. Fletcher penciled in for 2B, Rengifo waiting, Ward possibly bumping Cozart there.

All of this as a starting point. He'll be opportunistic if upgrades come up. 

[Troll Daddy]

15 minutes ago, totdprods said:

@floplag - this is sort of what I'm referring to.

Eppler might stack the deck with pitching, and only be opportunistic when it comes to position played improvements, like you mentioned for C, LH 1B, 2B/3B, or RF. 

They seem fairly comfortable with Arcia/Briceno at C, though I'm expecting one more brought in. Fernandez, Thaiss, and Walsh probably are the LH 1B you mentioned. RF will be Calhoun barring something dramatic. Fletcher penciled in for 2B, Rengifo waiting, Ward possibly bumping Cozart there.

All of this as a starting point. He'll be opportunistic if upgrades come up. 

Hard to imagine Ward bumping Cozart ... risky business 

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Hard to imagine Ward bumping Cozart ... risky business 

As the season goes on, it could happen.

[kevinb]

26 minutes ago, totdprods said:

@floplag - this is sort of what I'm referring to.

Eppler might stack the deck with pitching, and only be opportunistic when it comes to position played improvements, like you mentioned for C, LH 1B, 2B/3B, or RF. 

They seem fairly comfortable with Arcia/Briceno at C, though I'm expecting one more brought in. Fernandez, Thaiss, and Walsh probably are the LH 1B you mentioned. RF will be Calhoun barring something dramatic. Fletcher penciled in for 2B, Rengifo waiting, Ward possibly bumping Cozart there.

All of this as a starting point. He'll be opportunistic if upgrades come up. 

Gross.

[Torridd]

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

Pitching pitching pitching 

“The general manager said he’s more comfortable with the internal options among the everyday players, so his outside shopping is going to be focused on pitching.

 

We are going to be in the pitching market, both in the starting and relief market,” Eppler said Monday. “What that’s going to yield, that’s hard to predict, but we’re going to have a lot of conversations.”

I did NOT want to hear that.

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

With regard to SP I see no point in acquiring or signing anyone as a starter that isnt a clear and obvious upgrade, an ace.  Acquiring more of what we already have, IE mid rotation guys, makes little to know sense to me in the face of other concerns.  This is the basic point of my argument combined with limited resources.   

This is where we disagree I guess.
We only got 31 GS from Skaggs and Shoemaker. 
We got 32 GS/122 IP from 9 guys with an ERA near 7. Make it 200 innings if you add in the other reliever (Pena) we had to put in the rotation. 

That's at least opportunity for one clear and obvious upgrade. Two if the durability of Skaggs and Shoemaker are still concerning.
An ace would be nice too, but it's a luxury. 

1 hour ago, floplag said:

1A- I dont see it, almost no way you get a top guys without giving up top prospects.  
1B- This Is taking on money.  MadBum isnt a huge deal but its still a large chuck of available resources for a guy with injury issues, see comment above about obviously better.  Sindegaard is going to get a huge bump in Arb, hes not getting another 3 mil deal for example. 
2A- See comment about obviously better again, if they are cheap they are not likely better, perhaps more innings but not better quality. 
2B- Whose trading a top guy for Shoe right now?   Signing one of those guys is a 15-20 mil commitment.  Doesnt leave much left for other concerns. 

Option 1A is not top guy, nor our top prospects. It's the next tier down...Junis, Bundy, Urena, Wheeler, Teheran, Sanchez, Ray. 
Guys you can get without sacrificing Adell or Canning.
Say, start with Suarez, add one of Ward/Thaiss/Marsh/Jones, and one of Rivas/Yan/Deveaux/Warren/etc., and you've got a package that lands one of those guys, doesn't hurt the MLB club, doesn't destroy the farm, doesn't thin out our prospects to the point where we couldn't make other deals. 

Option 1B was never likely anyways, but if they were to deal for deGrom, Syndergaard, MadBum...I'd imagine that their arb. dollars aren't much of a concern, as at that point, they're making a serious push by giving up top prospects for one of them. 

Option 2A: Again, disagree.
We had 10 guys (10 roster moves, 10 roster spots, a half-dozen guys pulled from the pen) combine for 200 innings of 5.54 ERA in the rotation. 
James Shields throwing 204 IP of 4.50 ERA would be an improvement, for probably around the same money, and only occupying one roster spot. 
Any number of one-year deal vets should be able to beat that mark. Maybe they sign someone like Ross or Liriano, who could slip into a relief role as well.

Option 2B: Didn't say anything about trading Shoemaker for a top guy, only trading for a positional need to transfer Shoe's arb salary to salary used for another player, instead of relying on FA. Say, for instance, James McCann for Shoemaker. McCann gives us a decent MLB catcher, certainly isn't a downgrade. Offensively, Briceno/Arcia might already be an upgrade over Maldonado, if only slight.

And what's to say it has to be Shoemaker? Tyler Skaggs certainly has the upside and control to still land an intriguing IF/RF. Perhaps Calhoun's attached with Skaggs to shed their collective salary enough to sign Corbin or Keuchel as a more expensive but more durable version of Skaggs?
Also opens an opportunity to sign someone small (Markakis), large (Harper), or back in a trade (Pederson?) for RF.
1) Corbin/Keuchel 
2) trade from Option 1A
3) Heaney
4) 1-yr cheap vet SP
5) Shoemaker/Barria/Pena/AAA Guys

Either way, I think Eppler's first focus will be stacking the deck with pitching, relying on internal options for offense, and seeing how it plays out. 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

@floplag - this is sort of what I'm referring to.

Eppler might stack the deck with pitching, and only be opportunistic when it comes to position played improvements, like you mentioned for C, LH 1B, 2B/3B, or RF. 

They seem fairly comfortable with Arcia/Briceno at C, though I'm expecting one more brought in. Fernandez, Thaiss, and Walsh probably are the LH 1B you mentioned. RF will be Calhoun barring something dramatic. Fletcher penciled in for 2B, Rengifo waiting, Ward possibly bumping Cozart there.

All of this as a starting point. He'll be opportunistic if upgrades come up. 

Yeah, i read it, and got the same impression, i just dont agree with it depending on what the big picture plan is.  Long term wise its probably a fine plan, but it sacrifices the short term and hurts the chances Trout re-signs.

There is literally no way he can make over the entire staff quickly enough to content during Trouts contract.  Not to mention one or two guys still leave holes and reliance on depth and bullpen. 

Youre basically saying you want to go with the same roster we ended the season with and add some better SP.    That wont put us back in the playoff picture in my opinion. at least not in 19.  So if the plan is build for the future... fine, but that doesnt help the Trout issue.  

This isnt something we can have our cake and eat it to on, unless or until that extension is signed and he buys into the plan.   There is a huge difference between planning for 19 or 22 and planning for life with Trout and without.

[floplag]

46 minutes ago, totdprods said:

This is where we disagree I guess.
We only got 31 GS from Skaggs and Shoemaker. 
We got 32 GS/122 IP from 9 guys with an ERA near 7. Make it 200 innings if you add in the other reliever (Pena) we had to put in the rotation. 

That's at least opportunity for one clear and obvious upgrade. Two if the durability of Skaggs and Shoemaker are still concerning.
An ace would be nice too, but it's a luxury. 

Option 1A is not top guy, nor our top prospects. It's the next tier down...Junis, Bundy, Urena, Wheeler, Teheran, Sanchez, Ray. 
Guys you can get without sacrificing Adell or Canning.
Say, start with Suarez, add one of Ward/Thaiss/Marsh/Jones, and one of Rivas/Yan/Deveaux/Warren/etc., and you've got a package that lands one of those guys, doesn't hurt the MLB club, doesn't destroy the farm, doesn't thin out our prospects to the point where we couldn't make other deals. 

Option 1B was never likely anyways, but if they were to deal for deGrom, Syndergaard, MadBum...I'd imagine that their arb. dollars aren't much of a concern, as at that point, they're making a serious push by giving up top prospects for one of them. 

Option 2A: Again, disagree.
We had 10 guys (10 roster moves, 10 roster spots, a half-dozen guys pulled from the pen) combine for 200 innings of 5.54 ERA in the rotation. 
James Shields throwing 204 IP of 4.50 ERA would be an improvement, for probably around the same money, and only occupying one roster spot. 
Any number of one-year deal vets should be able to beat that mark. Maybe they sign someone like Ross or Liriano, who could slip into a relief role as well.

Option 2B: Didn't say anything about trading Shoemaker for a top guy, only trading for a positional need to transfer Shoe's arb salary to salary used for another player, instead of relying on FA. Say, for instance, James McCann for Shoemaker. McCann gives us a decent MLB catcher, certainly isn't a downgrade. Offensively, Briceno/Arcia might already be an upgrade over Maldonado, if only slight.

And what's to say it has to be Shoemaker? Tyler Skaggs certainly has the upside and control to still land an intriguing IF/RF. Perhaps Calhoun's attached with Skaggs to shed their collective salary enough to sign Corbin or Keuchel as a more expensive but more durable version of Skaggs?
Also opens an opportunity to sign someone small (Markakis), large (Harper), or back in a trade (Pederson?) for RF.
1) Corbin/Keuchel 
2) trade from Option 1A
3) Heaney
4) 1-yr cheap vet SP
5) Shoemaker/Barria/Pena/AAA Guys

Either way, I think Eppler's first focus will be stacking the deck with pitching, relying on internal options for offense, and seeing how it plays out. 

You;re basically saying go with our current roster and a couple SP upgrades as much as he can likley fit in that 30 Mil-ish window.  Lets say your right, how many wins does that likely get us?   Does it put us anywhere near the playoff picture?  I dont think so, not in 19 anyway.

You are probably right about the plan, i just dont like the implications of it.  Were basically accepting third place for the next couple years and increasing the likelihood of losing Trout if thats the plan as we wont be playing any meaningful games. 

Its not a bad plan if the goal is long term, but the affect it has on the short term and Trout cannot be ignored.   I just dont think this is a have our cake and eat it to situation.   Otherwise id say fine, work the plan. 

[totdprods]

Replacing 1/3 of the rotations starts with a 5.53 ERA with a vet SP posting 4.50 and a trade SP of 3.90 nets us a few extra wins. The strain it takes off roster juggling and the bullpen maybe another win or two by itself. The 2019 pen, as it's composed now, has actually been among the league's best since July. That's a couple wins.

Get a full season of Ohtani at DH, Upton hopefully returning a bit more productive (at least with RISP), Trout not missing 3 weeks, and the youth being better than Valbuena, Marte, and Chris Young, and that's probably another couple wins.

Hopefully an 85-90 win club.

In regards to Trout...he hasn't once said he'd only sign with a winner. He's said he likes it here. He's signed here once. He enjoys it here. We at least try to win year in and year out. We have money. He knows what he's getting. He avoids the spotlight. We have the best shot out of any team at signing him. 

And even if we don't, there is no reason at this point to burn every resource in a last-ditch effort to win. He saw us try that with Albert and fail. He saw us try with Hamilton, fail. He saw it last year when they added Upton, Cozart, Kinsler, and Ohtani. Fail. Shit at this point he may prefer we take the long-term picture like Houston did, as that's what driving them to the playoffs, not signing with some team exhausting every penny in win-now mode.

And if he does walk? So be it. We probably dug that grave years ago during the Dipoto Years. Trout doesn't seem to be the type to make rash decisions. We get $34m back each year, watch another team enjoy him for awhile (and probably regret it in the late 2020's), but get to see Ohtani and Adell and a new generation of folks play under a new manager and a seemingly skilled GM working with a vision we haven't seen since the Stoneman dawning.

I love Trout, but at this point it's silly to go scorched earth to try and keep him. 

[hangin n wangin]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Replacing 1/3 of the rotations starts with a 5.53 ERA with a vet SP posting 4.50 and a trade SP of 3.90 nets us a few extra wins. The strain it takes off roster juggling and the bullpen maybe another win or two by itself. The 2019 pen, as it's composed now, has actually been among the league's best since July. That's a couple wins.

Get a full season of Ohtani at DH, Upton hopefully returning a bit more productive (at least with RISP), Trout not missing 3 weeks, and the youth being better than Valbuena, Marte, and Chris Young, and that's probably another couple wins.

Hopefully an 85-90 win club.

In regards to Trout...he hasn't once said he'd only sign with a winner. He's said he likes it here. He's signed here once. He enjoys it here. We at least try to win year in and year out. We have money. He knows what he's getting. He avoids the spotlight. We have the best shot out of any team at signing him. 

And even if we don't, there is no reason at this point to burn every resource in a last-ditch effort to win. He saw us try that with Albert and fail. He saw us try with Hamilton, fail. He saw it last year when they added Upton, Cozart, Kinsler, and Ohtani. Fail. Shit at this point he may prefer we take the long-term picture like Houston did, as that's what driving them to the playoffs, not signing with some team exhausting every penny in win-now mode.

And if he does walk? So be it. We probably dug that grave years ago during the Dipoto Years. Trout doesn't seem to be the type to make rash decisions. We get $34m back each year, watch another team enjoy him for awhile (and probably regret it in the late 2020's), but get to see Ohtani and Adell and a new generation of folks play under a new manager and a seemingly skilled GM working with a vision we haven't seen since the Stoneman dawning.

I love Trout, but at this point it's silly to go scorched earth to try and keep him. 

Agree. I just want to win again. If that's with Trout, even better, but winning comes first. If we can't retain Trout, we're going to have to find other ways to win. The improved farm system is a start.

[UndertheHalo]

Someone remind me how many games DeGrom won with the Mets shit offense.  You have to score runs to win games. 

The Angels currently have half of a line up.  They have to get major league hitters to bat around Trout, Simmons, Upton, and Othani.   That’s the most pressing issue.  I was sort of disappointed to read that Eppler apparently doesn’t see it that way. 

We can see how it goes with a couple of guys, preferably young players like Ward and some other.   But it’s not going to work with 4 or 5 everyday players producing .650 or worse OPS. Cozart producing like a decent player would help a lot. We’ll see.  Hopefully Eppler isn’t seriously planning on leaving the line up as is. 

We have teams in the league that had nice seasons without 5 good starting pitchers.  The game is going that way.  The Angels do need to look at reliable starters.  But is gutting the farm system for 1 ace without significantly improving the line up what helps the team move towards a World Series ? I don’t think so. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[jordan]

Three starters I’d be happy with would be Harvey, Eovaldi, and Buchholz.  They may be reasonably cheap, and should solidify the rotation. Two of these three would be nice. 

[Pancake Bear]

5 hours ago, Torridd said:

I don't agree with this. We've had a lot of bad luck in the rotation, but I think the arms are capable when healthy. Would I like a dependable ace? Sure. But I don't think it's a priority over our other needs.

What other needs? If you think they're trading Cozart, you're high. If you think they don't love what they saw from Fletcher and have expectations that Ward or Rengifo could fit as well as a Kinsler type (who was 5-10 among 2B when healthy), you're high. Calhoun is questionable, but given Adell is expected up at least by 2020 (if not sometime in '19), they're not making a move there. With Pujols, they won't make a serious move at 1B, either.

I'd love to go out and grab Cesar Hernandez or Whit Merrifield, but I don't know if that's likely or not at this point. I don't believe it's necessary by comparison to the rotation.

So, outside of catcher, there is no move to make. And if you think they're going to go all in on Realmuto? I don't see it. Would cost too much and probably would involve pitching leaving - that we can't spare.

On the flip side, exactly where is this pitching reliability we have? I don't think we've had bad luck in the rotation, I think we've been cheating by paying low for guys with a higher likelihood of injury and we've been burned by it. Skaggs and Heaney are solid, middle of the rotation types, but neither has shown themselves to be an ace (not that I think we will acquire one), but the upshot is that we have no reliability in the rotation. Result: Bullpen gets overworked and looks like crap. 

Could we use another pen arm? Sure, but the bullpen's problems are basically a result of the rotation's problems. Until the rotation is solidified with some more solid, reliable arms, we're going nowhere. Maybe Barria, Canning, and Suarez are the solution, but I'm not convinced. I think we need at least one solid arm. Who that is, I'm not the right guy to ask. 

 

2 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

Pitching pitching pitching 

“The general manager said he’s more comfortable with the internal options among the everyday players, so his outside shopping is going to be focused on pitching.

 

We are going to be in the pitching market, both in the starting and relief market,” Eppler said Monday. “What that’s going to yield, that’s hard to predict, but we’re going to have a lot of conversations.”

Well, looks like one of us is on the same page as the guys making the money. 

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, jordan said:

Three starters I’d be happy with would be Harvey, Eovaldi, and Buchholz.  They may be reasonably cheap, and should solidify the rotation. Two of these three would be nice. 

I really like the idea of going after Harvey.  I think he’s a guy that is at worst a mid rotation starter.  With the Reds he flashed some of the ability that made him a bona fide ace.  If he can tap into that consistently, what a steal that could be. 

[jordan]

17 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I really like the idea of going after Harvey.  I think he’s a guy that is at worst a mid rotation starter.  With the Reds he flashed some of the ability that made him a bona fide ace.  If he can tap into that consistently, what a steal that could be. 

I agree.  I think all three of these guys have shown flashes of brilliance and would stabilize the rotation.  None are aces, but could max out as a #2 starter, and probably be at a minimum a #4 starter.