Gameday Thread: Angels vs. Blue Jays (5/23/2018). Kinsler still leading off. Calhoun back in RF

[T.G.]

 

What is the over/under that Trout will come up to bat with men on base?

 

[Dick B Back]

Wrong date.

[GrittyVeterans]

36 year old washed up player at leadoff

38(?) year old washed up player at cleanup

 

This has to change or this will be a .500 team by the end of May

[robblin17]

GO ANGELS!!!

It is so deflating seeing Pujols in the lineup. 

[failos]

I get the feeling we're going to complain about Kinsler at leadoff more than Pujols at cleanup.

 

Anyways, I'm glad Kole is back in RF.

[krAbs]

Good news everyone!

So, I was looking through all time records for lowest single season bWAR (I know, how could this POSSIBLY lead to a bad place??), and it looks like by the end of last year, Pujols (-1.8 bWAR) ended up with a higher WAR than...Sunffy Stirnweiss ( -1.9 bWAR) (yes, that's a real name) did in 1950. Haza! Unfortunately...Calhoun is currently at -0.9 bWAR, 40 games into the season. Good ole' Snuffy got yanked after 93 games; at this rate, at 93 games, Calhoun would be sitting on a WAR of -2.1, easily overtaking the Snuff for worst season of all time. That's assuming that he gets yanked after 93 games, though. If Calhoun were to play as much as he did last year - 155 games, and continue hitting at this clip, he will -3.5 bWAR, absolutely DESTROYING the record. Fingers crossed, eh??

[robblin17]

2 minutes ago, failos said:

I get the feeling we're going to complain about Kinsler at leadoff more than Pujols at cleanup.

 

Anyways, I'm glad Kole is back in RF.

Both are terrible.

[Troll Daddy]

Kole and Kinsler are both a very important part of the team this season ...  if only if they can start frickin hitting! 

 

I'm not worried

 

yet

[failos]

13 minutes ago, robblin17 said:

Both are terrible.

I can't disagree with you there.

[fan_since79]

Kinsler leading off, whee!

I can't wait!

 

 

[stormngt]

I know you guys all want to bitch!  However, please keep these perspectives in mind:

1.  Kinsler, and Cozar were signed to play important roles on the team.  

2.  Pujols is going to play and until we get a better middle of the order at bat he will be clean up.  Simmons should not bat in a run producing spot, and he doesn't want to bat on top of the order.  Ohtani is the only other option!  

3.  Calhoun was expected to play a dominant role on the team.

These are all facts that manager and the GM set on before the season.  So you just beating a dead horse every time  you guys complain about it.

I wish we could bring back the old movie clip of a dead horse being beaten.  Wasn't that used frequently about 8 or 9 years ago?

[maestro]

It’s funny how unhappy people are that the team hasn’t made major adjustments to a few positions. Has any other team completely abandoned multiple opening day starters yet? Not that I know of. 

That’s not to say that just because nobody else has done it, that it’s therefore okay we haven’t. But perhaps front offices don’t start seriously considering this stuff until after May is over 

[T.G.]

@kj_maestro welcome to AngelsWhine

[maestro]

^it’s funny man. I like reading it though, I like just about anybody who likes the angels even if they like to complain haha

I wasn’t around then but I’m sure people in 2009 complained about how Scioscia arranged a lineup of all .300 hitters haha!

[DMVol]

39 minutes ago, failos said:

Anyways, I'm glad Kole is back in RF.

[krAbs]

5 minutes ago, kj_maestro said:

It’s funny how unhappy people are that the team hasn’t made major adjustments to a few positions. Has any other team completely abandoned multiple opening day starters yet? Not that I know of. 

That’s not to say that just because nobody else has done it, that it’s therefore okay we haven’t. But perhaps front offices don’t start seriously considering this stuff until after May is over 

Actually, you make good points. Calhoun sucks, but he isn't actually even the worst right fielder in baseball right now. That would be Dexter Fowler, for the Cards - who are actually a pretty good team. He's put up similar (though slightly better) offensive numbers, but managed to be a huge negative defensively.

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, kj_maestro said:

It’s funny how unhappy people are that the team hasn’t made major adjustments to a few positions. Has any other team completely abandoned multiple opening day starters yet? Not that I know of. 

That’s not to say that just because nobody else has done it, that it’s therefore okay we haven’t. But perhaps front offices don’t start seriously considering this stuff until after May is over 

I dunno how many teams have done it but, I'd like to point out that the Braves gave Bautista a shot, saw he was spent and dropped him.  They essentially handed him a position and then cut bait when he didn't run with it.   I know the Mariners only signed Ichiro when an injury depleted their OF -- but they didn't waste a lot of time making up a position for him in order to save face but get him out of the lineup...   Granted, both those guys signed for peanuts and were disposable but it only adds to some people's frustrations to see the team rolling Kinsler out there at the top of the order when it's pretty clear he can't catch up to a FB.   

The AP situation is sticky for reasons beyond the money and I understand wanting to give Kinsler a little more time given he started the season on the DL but, I don't blame anyone for throwing their hands up in disgust when they see him leading off.   

Calhoun situation just sucks... 

[maestro]

6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I dunno how many teams have done it but, I'd like to point out that the Braves gave Bautista a shot, saw he was spent and dropped him.  They essentially handed him a position and then cut bait when he didn't run with it.   I know the Mariners only signed Ichiro when an injury depleted their OF -- but they didn't waste a lot of time making up a position for him in order to save face but get him out of the lineup...   Granted, both those guys signed for peanuts and were disposable but it only adds to some people's frustrations to see the team rolling Kinsler out there at the top of the order when it's pretty clear he can't catch up to a FB.   

The AP situation is sticky for reasons beyond the money and I understand wanting to give Kinsler a little more time given he started the season on the DL but, I don't blame anyone for throwing their hands up in disgust when they see him leading off.   

Calhoun situation just sucks... 

Interesting. 

I get the frustration, no doubt. But I think just like any job, when a company invests time and resources into employees, it’s in their best interest to give the employee every chance possible. Who would want to sign here if they think they’re gonna get dumped after a month?

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, kj_maestro said:

Interesting. 

I get the frustration, no doubt. But I think just like any job, when a company invests time and resources into employees, it’s in their best interest to give the employee every chance possible. Who would want to sign here if they think they’re gonna dumped after a month?

As I said..   I get why they haven't acted in some cases...  I also get why people look at it and get upset.   

As far as your question goes...  both sides can play that game....  Who is going to want to sign here if it doesn't appear the team is putting winning first?   That's not the position I'm taking, just pointing out the whole yin-yang aspect of rhetorical questions.  

Hopefully Kinsler pulls out of it, but a lot of the predictive stuff is pointing to this decline being real.

[krAbs]

I think we have a lot of players frustrating for individual reasons...

Kinsler: Long time rival of the Angels, so much bad blood, and we have seen him be so good for so long against us. He comes over and does...nothing. Nothing at all.

Cozart: Feels like we took a gamble and lost, and ended up in just another of an endlessly long time of crappy 2B. A deal that looked like a bargain now looks pretty ugly, and like just another in a long string of ugly 2B. Salt in the wound is the fact that we haven't had a good 2B since Kendrick, who was under appreciated when he was here, and still hard to see leave.

Pujols: Pujols was a blockbuster signing that was supposed to be the next Vladdy for us. The Machine, the best player in baseball. Instead, he has been constantly injured, constantly playing badly, constantly draining our money, and constantly hitting near the top of the order. He turned out to be a huge impact player, but in the wrong ways.

Calhoun: Crowd favorite, great guy, fun to watch on defense, but all of last year it was frustrating to watch him bat. Seemed like he just couldn't figure it out. This was supposed to be a bounce back season for him, and in Spring it looked like it would be - hard hit balls all over the field. Exactly what he couldn't do last year. But, the season starts, and he immediately falls on his face again, making last year look like nothing. Its frustrating watching a home grown guy who you like and want on the team preform SO badly.

IMO the rest are fine, and if these four were playing well we wouldn't really notice when Maldenado has a hitless streak or if Upton does something stupid (or at least, we wouldn't care as much).

 

Also, our bullpen makes me want to light myself on fire.

[robblin17]

29 minutes ago, stormngt said:

I know you guys all want to bitch!  However, please keep these perspectives in mind:

1.  Kinsler, and Cozar were signed to play important roles on the team.  

2.  Pujols is going to play and until we get a better middle of the order at bat he will be clean up.  Simmons should not bat in a run producing spot, and he doesn't want to bat on top of the order.  Ohtani is the only other option!  

3.  Calhoun was expected to play a dominant role on the team.

These are all facts that manager and the GM set on before the season.  So you just beating a dead horse every time  you guys complain about it.

I wish we could bring back the old movie clip of a dead horse being beaten.  Wasn't that used frequently about 8 or 9 years ago?

Is there evidence of Simmons not wanting to bat at the top of the order?

[Blarg]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Calhoun situation just sucks... 

It is amazing how a simple infield shift has completely destroyed his ability to get on base. It's not just Calhoun, other players are beating balls into five guys ganged up on one side, like they are playing over the line and everything to the opposite field is an out. But Kole has imploded epically, separating himself from all other players to a point that he may not be salvageable. 

114 at bats and not one single bunt attempt. It's like drowning in open ocean and denying a life perserver, because you think you can swim to shore. And no one will tell you to take it because, well, some sort of dumbass mancode. 

Calhoun is no longer a MLB quality player. The Angels are trying very hard to rescue his career but I think he is not going to make it, even with shoreline in sight.

[fan_since79]

Here's a thought. Imagine if the only postseason result we'll have to show for Pujols' ten years with us is the KC sweep in 2014.

[krAbs]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

It is amazing how a simple infield shift has completely destroyed his ability to get on base. It's not just Calhoun, other players are beating balls into five guys ganged up on one side, like they are playing over the line and everything to the opposite field is an out. But Kole has imploded epically, separating himself from all other players to a point that he may not be salvageable. 

114 at bats and not one single bunt attempt. It's like drowning in open ocean and denying a life perserver, because you think you can swim to shore. And no one will tell you to take it because, well, some sort of dumbass mancode. 

Calhoun is no longer a MLB quality player. The Angels are trying very hard to rescue his career but I think he is not going to make it, even with shoreline in sight.

You KNOW they want to put the catcher in right while no one is on.

 

Point is, Gallo has bunted, but I don't think Kole has separated himself out from where Gallo is. Ain't seen anyone try this against Calhoun...yet...

[T.G.]

7 minutes ago, krAbs said:

Also, our bullpen makes me want to light myself on fire.

Our arson squad (aka bullpen) can help you with that.