Upton Vs. JD Martinez

[Hubs]

One thing that keeps irking me in these predictions is the thought that JD Martinez somehow made the Red Sox elite, whereas the Angels get zero credit for retaining Upton.

I understand that one is shiny and new for the Sox, and he had an incredible year in Arizona last year after being acquired at the deadline. Martinez has been the better hitter in his last two years but Upton is no slouch. And Martinez did play only 120 games and 119 games last two seasons, (which makes his 90 HR even that much more impressive) but leads to some health concerns.

Martinez is a good addition, don't get me wrong, but this Red Sox team somehow scored 785 runs last season. Their best hitter was arguably Journeyman Eduardo Nunez. They have some nice young pieces in Benintiendi and Devers, and they have an excellent pitching staff.

But Martinez doesn't make the Red Sox into an elite team. Neither does retaining Moreland and Nunez.

 

The Angels meanwhile retained Upton, signed Kinsler, Cozart, and Ohtani. And they are projected to barely improve over last years 80-82 record? The one where Trout missed 50 games?

We were the "winners" of the offseason, but when projection time came out, we're not looked at as able to compete with the Astros, and not even considered wild card locks by many.

 

And the Red Sox are often picked to win their Division!

 

[GrittyVeterans]

Well, the Red Sox have much better pitching than us.

 

Upton is a better all around ball player than JD though for sure

[bloodbrother]

Who is picking them to win the division tbh? Figured most had Yankees with the Red Sox as the likely favorites for the top WC spot. The difference between the Angels and Red Sox isn't in the players both added in FA/trade, it's that Boston has better young talent already on their MLB roster. Guys like Benintendi, Betts, Bogaerts, Devers, etc were elite prospects who are still getting better as they get more experience

[JustATroutFan]

Maybe it's because the Red Sox have a good starting rotation, led by Sale. And their bullpen is better than the Angels, thanks to Kimbrel.

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, bloodbrother said:

Who is picking them to win the division tbh? Figured most had Yankees with the Red Sox as the likely favorites for the top WC spot. The difference between the Angels and Red Sox isn't in the players both added in FA/trade, it's that Boston has better young talent already on their MLB roster. Guys like Benintendi, Betts, Bogaerts, Devers, etc were elite prospects who are still getting better as they get more experience

I will go out on a limb and pick the Red Sox over the Yankees in the East. 

[Second Base]

15 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

I will go out on a limb and pick the Red Sox over the Yankees in the East. 

Same here. Other than Stanton, I'm not really seeing where the Yankees have improved. They got some pretty unexpectedly fluke performances last year that aren't likely to be replicated, but by adding Stanton, I think they'll be the same as last year. Drury and Walker aren't likely to be better than Headley and Castro in 2017.

I think the Red Sox will be better. Benintendi has come into his own, they'll get a full season from Devers at 3B and added Martinez in the most predictable move of all time.

The Red Sox have improved, and the Yanks really haven't.

[aznhockeyguy]

I'll take the quiet substantial upgrades over the hyped up transactions.  I also value well-rounded players over bat-only players unless they produce at an elite level.  If Martinez's bat goes cold, his value craters as he's mostly going to be a DH for the Red Sox.  If Upton's bat goes cold, he contributes in other ways to retain his value and is expected to be an above average glove in LF.  The Red Sox already had a solid playoff bound team.  With the addition of Martinez, he improves the Red Sox's main weakness which is power and because of this, many people are hyping his addition as solid bets to win the WS.

[Hubs]

RF Betts had an .803 OPS last year. Kole is behind Betts at .725. Edge Betts.

LF Benintendi had a .776 OPS. Upton was at .901. Edge Upton.

CF Bradley was at .726 OPS. Trout was at 1.071. Edge Trout.

SS Bogaerts was at .746. Simmons was at .752 Even offensively.

3B Devers was at .819 last year in only 58 games. Cozart was at .933. Edge Cozart.

2B Nunez had an .892 OPS in 38 games for the Sox, but .752 for the Giants. (.801 overall), and his career OPS is .735). Kinsler was at  .725. I'm calling this even.

1B Moreland was at .769. Valbuena was at .725. I'm also calling this even as their career numbers aren't far off from one another.

C Vasquez was at .725. Maldonado was at .645. Edge Vasquez.

DH Martinez was at 1.066. Pujols was at .672. Edge Martinez.

 

OPS is an offensive measure only, and that's what I'm looking at. So it's  3-3-3. But the Red Sox are elite and the Angels are maybe a 2nd wild card? Yes the Sox have better pitching, but...

 

 

[Angel Oracle]

45 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Well, the Red Sox have much better pitching than us.

 

Upton is a better all around ball player than JD though for sure

Except that one of the Red Sux pitchers slumped badly in 2017 (Porcello), and another missed significant time (Price) and isn't getting any younger with a lot of innings under his belt.   Only Sale and a part-time Price had a WHIP under 1.28 in their rotation in 2017.  

 imho, take Sale away and the difference in starting pitching between them and the Halos isn't as much as people would think. 

[GrittyVeterans]

15 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

Same here. Other than Stanton, I'm not really seeing where the Yankees have improved. They got some pretty unexpectedly fluke performances last year that aren't likely to be replicated, but by adding Stanton, I think they'll be the same as last year. Drury and Walker aren't likely to be better than Headley and Castro in 2017.

I think the Red Sox will be better. Benintendi has come into his own, they'll get a full season from Devers at 3B and added Martinez in the most predictable move of all time.

The Red Sox have improved, and the Yanks really haven't.

Full season of Sonny Gray

[Hubs]

50 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Well, the Red Sox have much better pitching than us.

 

Upton is a better all around ball player than JD though for sure

Do they? They have bigger names and a better bullpen. They have one elite pitcher in Sale, and Price can still be elite. Porcello slumped after his Cy Young season. Pomeranz came out of nowhere, and Doug Fister made 15 starts for them last year.

It's the same thing about Houston. They have four guys who could win the Cy Young, yes, but those four guys all have had seasons recently with a 4.00+ ERA. (Verlander, Keuchel, McCullers, and Cole).

Angels have Richards who is on par with Keuchel, Sale, Price and Verlander. He has health concerns, but so does Price.

Ohtani who knows But his stuff compares with those five guys,

Heaney has shown flashes of brilliance and Skaggs has been up and down. Shoemaker is basically Pomeranz.

Red Sox allowed 668 runs and the Astros 700. The Angels last season basically without Richards and with Skaggs, Heaney, and Shoemaker limited, allowed 709.

 

 

[GrittyVeterans]

4 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Do they? They have bigger names and a better bullpen. They have one elite pitcher in Sale, and Price can still be elite. Porcello slumped after his Cy Young season. Pomeranz came out of nowhere, and Doug Fister made 15 starts for them last year.

It's the same thing about Houston. They have four guys who could win the Cy Young, yes, but those four guys all have had seasons recently with a 4.00+ ERA. (Verlander, Keuchel, McCullers, and Cole).

Angels have Richards who is on par with Keuchel, Sale, Price and Verlander. He has health concerns, but so does Price.

Ohtani who knows But his stuff compares with those five guys,

Heaney has shown flashes of brilliance and Skaggs has been up and down. Shoemaker is basically Pomeranz.

Red Sox allowed 668 runs and the Astros 700. The Angels last season basically without Richards and with Skaggs, Heaney, and Shoemaker limited, allowed 709.

 

 

The bullpen is significantly better and Sale alone makes their rotation at least on par with ours. I don't know, I guess we'll see but I would definitely take their rotation

[Second Base]

19 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Full season of Sonny Gray

160 innings of a high three's ERA doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

[GrittyVeterans]

1 minute ago, Scotty@AW said:

160 innings of a high three's ERA doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Career ERA of 3.45. He's not an ace but a pretty good #2

[notherhalo]

6 hours ago, Hubs said:

RF Betts had an .803 OPS last year. Kole is behind Betts at .725. Edge Betts.

LF Benintendi had a .776 OPS. Upton was at .901. Edge Upton.

CF Bradley was at .726 OPS. Trout was at 1.071. Edge Trout.

SS Bogaerts was at .746. Simmons was at .752 Even offensively.

3B Devers was at .819 last year in only 58 games. Cozart was at .933. Edge Cozart.

2B Nunez had an .892 OPS in 38 games for the Sox, but .752 for the Giants. (.801 overall), and his career OPS is .735). Kinsler was at  .725. I'm calling this even.

1B Moreland was at .769. Valbuena was at .725. I'm also calling this even as their career numbers aren't far off from one another.

C Vasquez was at .725. Maldonado was at .645. Edge Vasquez.

DH Martinez was at 1.066. Pujols was at .672. Edge Martinez.

 

OPS is an offensive measure only, and that's what I'm looking at. So it's  3-3-3. But the Red Sox are elite and the Angels are maybe a 2nd wild card? Yes the Sox have better pitching, but...

 

 

Lowell

[GalericX]

The people that make these predictions are east coast tards that pay no attention to west coast ball.  Take it all with a grain of salt, let them prove it on the field.

[Second Base]

6 hours ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Career ERA of 3.45. He's not an ace but a pretty good #2

Career 3.45 ERA pitching in a pitcher friendly park, in a generally pitching friendly division. Now he's moving to a launch pad, in a division chalk full of launch pads. He's also coming off injury.

My guess is that 3.45 ERA from his days in Oakland will balloon up.

[UndertheHalo]

I tend to agree that Sonny Grey isn’t much better then average.  He wasn’t great for the Yanks last year either

Edited March 30, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

23 hours ago, Hubs said:

One thing that keeps irking me in these predictions is the thought that JD Martinez somehow made the Red Sox elite, whereas the Angels get zero credit for retaining Upton.

We got 6 of 7 MLB (experts) predicting us to win a wild card while Sox got 5 and 2 division titles. We live on the wrong coast I guess.