Death Penalty (or lack thereof) in California

[arch stanton]

It’s a damn shame if whether or not you get put to death for a murder you didn’t commit is dependent on the quality of your lawyer 

[mtangelsfan]

7 hours ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

No I'm serious. I want to know what you believe is systematically unequal in our legal system.

Good lawyer ($$$$$)

Poor lawyer ($)

By definition a guy with more money is going to have better representation.  That is inequality.

[Lou]

1 hour ago, arch stanton said:

It’s a damn shame if whether or not you get put to death for a murder you didn’t commit is dependent on the quality of your lawyer 

I agree, but considering the disproportionate amount of murders committed by blacks as opposed to whites, the death penalty cases that have been overturned don't really prove that it's whites that are benefiting at an alarming rate.

Since we don't know how many were acquitted in the first place, I can't really speak to that, other than mentioning proud usc alum OJ Simpson (obligatory)

[Adam]

9 hours ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

No I'm serious. I want to know what you believe is systematically unequal in our legal system.

1. There is a general lack of any consistent ability to be objective in human beings.  2.For both civil and criminal cases, the more money you can spend to defend yourself, the more likely you are to prevail. 

[Make Angels Great Again]

1 hour ago, mtangelsfan said:

Good lawyer ($$$$$)

Poor lawyer ($)

By definition a guy with more money is going to have better representation.  That is inequality.

 

I see. White people are definitely more wealthy than black people by and large for sure.

So there are two questions here, is there some form of oppression taking place causing these numbers? Today, I don't think there is at all. 

And how do we fix it? Are white people supposed to pay for better lawyers for people on trial for murder?

[UndertheHalo]

Minorities also routinely get stiffer sentences for similar crimes then their white counter parts.  Especially drug related offenses.  Also related to the representation issue.   This is something that has been researched heavily.  It’s indisputable.  Pretty solid evidence of systematic injustice. 

[Adam]

1 minute ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

I see. White people are definitely more wealthy than black people by and large for sure.

So there are two questions here, is there some form of oppression taking place causing these numbers? Today, I don't think there is at all. 

And how do we fix it? Are white people supposed to pay for better lawyers for people on trial for murder?

You can't fix it. But you can put some limitations on what the State can do to convicts. 

[Make Angels Great Again]

8 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Minorities also routinely get stiffer sentences for similar crimes then their white counter parts.  Especially drug related offenses.  Also related to the representation issue.   This is something that has been researched heavily.  It’s indisputable.  Pretty solid evidence of systematic injustice. 

 

Terrible. This likely goes back to the lawyer thing.

[Make Angels Great Again]

8 minutes ago, Adam said:

You can't fix it. But you can put some limitations on what the State can do to convicts. 

 

What do you mean? Like maximum penalties?

[Make Angels Great Again]

3 hours ago, arch stanton said:

Just out of curiosity, was your use of the singular form of a definite article intentional? Are you actually implying that there’s just one black community to which they all belong?

 

I'm not sure what you're asking. I'm talking about black people in America as a whole. There are cultural changes that need to take place among them, which means they need leaders among them to send the right messages.

[mtangelsfan]

12 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

I see. White people are definitely more wealthy than black people by and large for sure.

So there are two questions here, is there some form of oppression taking place causing these numbers? Today, I don't think there is at all. 

And how do we fix it? Are white people supposed to pay for better lawyers for people on trial for murder?

This isn't just a black/white issue.  It's a wealth/non-wealth issue.  The discrepancy is too much to take someone's life.  It is the one punishment you can't fix.

[Adam]

For one.

Unfortunately in our crony system, crime is huge dollars. Why do people get arrested and go to jail? They break laws. Decriminalize silly prohibitions like drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc. But even then, if/when the State does that, they'll just tax and regulate it so much that it will still result in a black market. 

[arch stanton]

2 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

I'm not sure what you're asking. I'm talking about black people in America as a whole. There are cultural changes that need to take place among them, which means they need leaders among them to send the right messages.

So you can’t see any other way to differentiate? All black people are in the same box.

[arch stanton]

24 minutes ago, Lou said:

I agree, but considering the disproportionate amount of murders committed by blacks as opposed to whites, the death penalty cases that have been overturned don't really prove that it's whites that are benefiting at an alarming rate.

Since we don't know how many were acquitted in the first place, I can't really speak to that, other than mentioning proud usc alum OJ Simpson (obligatory)

I’m not trying to make any racial point. I think it’s a damn shame anyone has his own government kill him in the name of justice for something he didn’t do

[Make Angels Great Again]

1 minute ago, arch stanton said:

So you can’t see any other way to differentiate? All black people are in the same box.

 

Seriously? Obviously i'm not saying they're all the same, of course there are successful black folks who do extremely well.

But the data is pretty clear that there are big cultural problems within their group by and large. Like 77% of black kids are born to single moms. Are we supposed to just ignore that?

[Make Angels Great Again]

8 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

This isn't just a black/white issue.  It's a wealth/non-wealth issue.  The discrepancy is too much to take someone's life.  It is the one punishment you can't fix.

 

It's a tricky issue for sure. An innocent person being but to death is abhorrent.

But raise your hand if you want to pay 30-60k per year to keep scum like Charles Manson alive in prison? Or allow the possibility of murderers to murder more out of prison?

[arch stanton]

11 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

Seriously? Obviously i'm not saying they're all the same, of course there are successful black folks who do extremely well.

But the data is pretty clear that there are big cultural problems within their group by and large. Like 77% of black kids are born to single moms. Are we supposed to just ignore that?

So why call it “the black community” even as you admit that there are plenty more factors? 

[Lou]

21 minutes ago, Adam said:

For one.

Unfortunately in our crony system, crime is huge dollars. Why do people get arrested and go to jail? They break laws. Decriminalize silly prohibitions like drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc. But even then, if/when the State does that, they'll just tax and regulate it so much that it will still result in a black market. 

Just out of curiosity, was your use of the singular form of a definite article intentional? Are you actually implying that there’s just one black market to which they all belong?

[mtangelsfan]

11 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

It's a tricky issue for sure. An innocent person being but to death is abhorrent.

But raise your hand if you want to pay 30-60k per year to keep scum like Charles Manson alive in prison? Or allow the possibility of murderers to murder more out of prison?

No, they should be locked up for the rest of their lives.  I don't have answers to cost or how to fix either the justice system or the prison system, but the idea of an innocent person being put to death should make everyone pause.  

[Lou]

1 minute ago, arch stanton said:

So why call it “the black community” even as you admit that there are plenty more factors? 

The term is always used. Same as the white community, the Asian community, etc.

It's intent is a generality of all members of the particular race, not pointing out one specific geographical area.

but I think you know that. 

 

[Make Angels Great Again]

5 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

No, they should be locked up for the rest of their lives.  I don't have answers to cost or how to fix either the justice system or the prison system, but the idea of an innocent person being put to death should make everyone pause.  

 

I agree. Unfortunately this injustice has existed pretty much forever, this is just the best thing we've come up with so far to fix it.

[Blarg]

25 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

It's a tricky issue for sure. An innocent person being but to death is abhorrent.

But raise your hand if you want to pay 30-60k per year to keep scum like Charles Manson alive in prison? Or allow the possibility of murderers to murder more out of prison?

And there it is. The Economics of the death penalty say it's cheaper to execute than keep the prisoner alive. And we all know that being fiscally responsible has always worked for the betterment of society.

We should make it the most cost effective as possible and do group executions to save tax payer money and adopt the guillotine since it has been shown to be effective 100% of the time unlike using electricity, chemicals or even shaky hand riflemen. Consult companies like GM or McDonalds about efficient assembly line work flow.

The money we save can be then moved to the program to arm teachers with higher quality firearms, possibly AR15's rather than just Glocks.

It will just be better days for everyone if we follow our hearts and, more importantly, wallets.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Blarg

[Blarg]

8 minutes ago, Lou said:

Just out of curiosity, was your use of the singular form of a definite article intentional? Are you actually implying that there’s just one black market to which they all belong?

Maybe your not up on the latest black market cabal conspiracy.

Wake up sheeple.

[arch stanton]

4 minutes ago, Lou said:

The term is always used. Same as the white community, the Asian community, etc.

It's intent is a generality of all members of the particular race, not pointing out one specific geographical area.

but I think you know that. 

 

And what’s the point of these generalities? The only purpose they can serve is to demonize innocent people by grouping them in with others they don’t know or have any influence over

[Blarg]

7 minutes ago, Lou said:

The term is always used. Same as the white community, the Asian community, etc.

It's intent is a generality of all members of the particular race, not pointing out one specific geographical area.

but I think you know that. 

 

We prefer to be referred to as The Oliarchs.