Cesar Hernandez

[Chuck]

Someone give me a scouting report and sell me on why this guy is a good fit?

Does he play good defense (I assume so). The OBP looks good, but the power and speed are average it appears. Does he have more power coming, or is he just a 10 HR, 15 SB guy that gets on base and plays good D? Looking at his minor league numbers I don't see "Star" potential anywhere, but just a solid guy on offense who can play a little D. 

How much would you give up to get a guy like this? Is his defense that good? If it is I'd be willing to trade for him if only to boast having the best up the middle defense in baseball. 

[beatlesrule]

Well, the Angels haven't traded for him or even made a proposal that we know of so I wouldn't be too concerned.  It would be wiser just to go get Gordon because he would cost much less prospect wise and players are more important than money.

[VariousCrap]

I believe he is actually considered average defensively.  I remember posters discussing that a month or so ago on the these boards.  He is good for his OBP and his speed.  On a team that likes to run like the Angels, he'd steal way more than 15 bases a year.  Probably closer to 30.

[Second Base]

As I understand, the Phillies were asking for Jahmai Jones as the centerpiece of a Hernandez deal and talks stalled after that. Phillies won't let Hernandez go for nothing and Angels won't pay a premium in prospects for a non premium player.

[HaloNArizona]

Hernandez was rated as the best defender in the Phillies org in 2012

Best defensive 2nd baseman in the Florida league in 2011 and the Eastern league in 2012

Here is a Phuture Phillies site on Hernandez:

Scouting Report: Below is an assessment of the player’s raw tools. The grades are based on the 20-80 scouting scale. To understand more about this, check out this page. In addition to the individual grades, I’ve included an Overall Future Projection grade which is a summary that gives an idea of what the player’s role is likely to be in the majors, if he gets there.

Hit For Average: 55
Hit For Power: 35
Fielding: 55
Throwing Arm: 55
Speed: 60

OFP: 50

Summary: Hernandez saw his contact rate dip in 2011, but part of that was being double jumped to a very pitcher friendly league. Still, I need to see him make better contact in 2012 before upgrading his hit tool anymore. His power is well below average, but he may develop enough strength to become a doubles hitter as he maxes out physically. His speed and defense are still assets.

https://phuturephillies.com/profiles/the-graduated/2b-hernandez-cesar/

[Chuck]

13 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

I believe he is actually considered average defensively.  I remember posters discussing that a month or so ago on the these boards.  He is good for his OBP and his speed.  On a team that likes to run like the Angels, he'd steal way more than 15 bases a year.  Probably closer to 30.

Yeah, the most bases he's stole was 33 but that was when he was younger (2013). 27 is not old, but I don't want to give up an Adell, Jones, Barria or Marsh for Hernandez to be honest. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

He's a 27 year old 2B who posted an OBP over 0.370 each of the last 2 seasons, he's under club control through 2020 and from 2015-2017 he's improved every year at the plate.  He might be one of those guys who's getting overvalued because of the attention he's getting being an above average player on a bad team and because he may be available via trade.  His career OPS+ is 100 which means league average but he's been above league average each of the last 2 years and would be a nice upgrade over anything the Angels have put out at 2B lately.  Bat him lead off in front of someone like Trout and he could really thrive if the last few years are any indication.    

[HaloNArizona]

Here is another write up on Hernandez:

 

http://www.philliesnation.com/2017/02/diving-in-who-is-the-real-cesar-hernandez/

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

Cesar Hernandez you get for ages 28-30 at a cost of about $21M. His career OBP is .357, including .372 the past two years. He's a switch hitter.

Dee Gordon you get for ages 30-32, at a cost of $39M. His career OBP is .329, including .329 the last two years. He's a lefty.

[VariousCrap]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

Yeah, the most bases he's stole was 33 but that was when he was younger (2013). 27 is not old, but I don't want to give up an Adell, Jones, Barria or Marsh for Hernandez to be honest. 

 

If I remember correctly, @Jeff Fletcher posted links to some articles that made it appear that it wouldn't cost as much to get Hernandez as originally thought.  One of the reasons being the market for him is very small this offseason.  It was thought Skaggs plus a couple mid-level prospects could possibly get it done.

[oater]

10 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

As I understand, the Phillies were asking for Jahmai Jones as the centerpiece of a Hernandez deal and talks stalled after that. Phillies won't let Hernandez go for nothing and Angels won't pay a premium in prospects for a non premium player.

If Jones is the price, I would prefer going the free agent route.  Walker or Cozart would be my preference.

[Angelsjunky]

Hernandez would greatly improve this team - give a real lead-off hitter, a solid defender at second base, and for 3+ years. He is much better than Dee Gordon and younger.

But Jahmai Jones? That's a tough call. I might do it because they Angels have Marsh, Adell and Deveaux and it would be trading from a position of plenitude for one of scarcity. But I'd also hate to see Jahmai become Andrew McCutchen for the Phillies.

And to put it another way, in the end I'd rather have Neil Walker and Jahmai Jones than just Cesar Hernandez.

[Chuck]

9 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Hernandez would greatly improve this team - give a real lead-off hitter, a solid defender at second base, and for 3+ years. He is much better than Dee Gordon and younger.

But Jahmai Jones? That's a tough call. I might do it because they Angels have Marsh, Adell and Deveaux and it would be trading from a position of plenitude for one of scarcity. But I'd also hate to see Jahmai become Andrew McCutchen for the Phillies.

And to put it another way, in the end I'd rather have Neil Walker and Jahmai Jones than just Cesar Hernandez.

Agreed... Or Cozart.

I'd also trade for Dee Gordon IF they're not looking for our top prospects and we just take on the $$. 

[beatlesrule]

13 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Cesar Hernandez you get for ages 28-30 at a cost of about $21M. His career OBP is .357, including .372 the past two years. He's a switch hitter.

Dee Gordon you get for ages 30-32, at a cost of $39M. His career OBP is .329, including .329 the last two years. He's a lefty.

Gordon is faster and won't cost nearly the prospects that Hernandez would.  Again, players/prospects are more important than money.

[Jeff Fletcher]

33 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Gordon is faster and won't cost nearly the prospects that Hernandez would.  Again, players/prospects are more important than money.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_speed_leaderboard

Gordon is 1 ft/sec faster. And since he’s 2 years older, I’m not sure how long that holds. Also, you can’t steal 1B.

 

[Rico]

40 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Again, players/prospects are more important than money.

Well money saved on Hernandez can be used to bring in an upgrade at first or a bullpen arm.  So it's important.

The thing about Hernandez is that he is just so much better at what we need.  We need a lead off hitter.  Hernandez can fill that role much better than Gordon and Walker, plus he is younger and cheaper.  The dude just fits.

[DMVol]

58 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Cesar Hernandez you get for ages 28-30 at a cost of about $21M. His career OBP is .357, including .372 the past two years. He's a switch hitter.

Dee Gordon you get for ages 30-32, at a cost of $39M. His career OBP is .329, including .329 the last two years. He's a lefty.

Gordon, unless he is included in a Stanton trade (which seems possible), would come much cheaper than Hernandez....that is a very important factor...

[Chuck]

9 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_speed_leaderboard

Gordon is 1 ft/sec faster. And since he’s 2 years older, I’m not sure how long that holds. Also, you can’t steal 1B.

 

Wow. Hernandez is even faster than Trout. 

Thanks for the link, @Jeff Fletcher

[Chuck]

13 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_speed_leaderboard

Gordon is 1 ft/sec faster. And since he’s 2 years older, I’m not sure how long that holds. Also, you can’t steal 1B.

 

Crazy that the older EY Jr. at 32 is faster than Mike Trout as well. 

Though I wonder how accurate this site is because Hunter Pence can't be as fast as Mike Trout, right?

[Angelsfan1984]

16 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_speed_leaderboard

Gordon is 1 ft/sec faster. And since he’s 2 years older, I’m not sure how long that holds. Also, you can’t steal 1B.

 

I mean you can, you would just likely spend the night in jail...

[Angelsfan1984]

3 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Crazy that the older EY Jr. at 32 is faster than Mike Trout as well. 

Though I wonder how accurate this site is because Hunter Pence can't be as fast as Mike Trout, right?

Mike doesn't run as fast as he did when he was a few years ago. He's seemed to bulk up and focus more on power than speed.

[Chuck]

Just now, Angelsfan1984 said:

Mike doesn't run as fast as he did when he was a few years ago. He's seemed to bulk up and focus more on power than speed.

True. Though it is very impressive that with his size he can still run like the wind. 

[beatlesrule]

I just think that if you are giving up some of your best prospects, it should be for a 2nd baseman you get more than 2-3 years.

[Angelsfan1984]

4 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

True. Though it is very impressive that with his size he can still run like the wind. 

He's built like an outside linebacker or strong safety. The kid can fly

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Cesar Hernandez you get for ages 28-30 at a cost of about $21M. His career OBP is .357, including .372 the past two years. He's a switch hitter.

Dee Gordon you get for ages 30-32, at a cost of $39M. His career OBP is .329, including .329 the last two years. He's a lefty.

Cost factor, advantage: Hernandez

Players traded away factor, advantage: Gordon

No players involved in a trade, advantage: Cozart (Walker getting up there in years and injury issues)

Just for you know, advantage: Lowell