Angels Pursuing Ohtani

[Cdaniel]

Just now, VariousCrap said:

I'd find the following acceptable:  Angels sign Ohtani, trade Skaggs for Hernandez, sign Chatwood for the rotation.

This ^^^

[Angelsfan1984]

1 minute ago, VariousCrap said:

I'd find the following acceptable:  Angels sign Ohtani, trade Skaggs for Hernandez, sign Chatwood for the rotation.

I'd be ok with that but I really think that Skaggs has a bounce back year. Players tend to do better as they are 18-24 months removed from TJ. His curveball is disgusting and he's relatively cheap. I'd like him to be our 4th starter. I'd be more inclined to trade Cron + fillers for Hernandez.

[Stradling]

I’d rather trade Shoemaker than Skaggs. 

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

I'd find the following acceptable:  Angels sign Ohtani, trade Skaggs for Hernandez, sign Chatwood for the rotation.

Well yeah, that'd be fantastic!

I think Chatwood is gonna get a lot more money than is being forecasted, and there will be too many teams in on him. I'd be fine with just Ohtani joining the fold, maybe with another savvy Bridwell/Ramirez-type plucked into the fray.

I'm just a little worried about Cesar not adjusting well to the AL or leaving Philly's bandbox. Definitely worth the gamble but I'd be nervous eating into our rotation depth for him without a replacement incoming, otherwise I'd be more interested in a FA like Walker, a cheaper trade like Gordon, or paying a premium for a really impactful young 2B - not sure who that would be.

[Dtwncbad]

I think personally when there is a piece that looks like a perfect fit, you just pay the fair price and don't get cute.  It is perfectly fine for the other team to be happy and have a round of high fives.

You make a deal and pay a fair price.  You don't need to to always "win" the trade if your "win" is you land exactly what you need.

I always use the same analogy.  You are putting together a show car.  You have 90% done and you need a bumper and a hood.  It is fine to overpay a bit to get those last critical pieces so that you have a complete car.  So the bumper guy sees your need and edges the price up.  It is what it is.

Buy the bumper.  You need it.

Obviously you don't willingly get crushed but a small overpay to get the exactly "perfect piece" is more smart than stupid.  The roster as a whole is always going to be more important that the cost of one piece.

I imagine the car owner at the car show, showing the car with no bumper or the wrong bumper.  Hey good for him.  He held his ground and refused to overpay by $400.  And that's the explaining he is doing to everyone as the car next to him wins best in show. . .

[VariousCrap]

11 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’d rather trade Shoemaker than Skaggs. 

 

Sure, but I don't think the Phillies trade Hernandez for Shoe.

[Angelsfan1984]

11 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’d rather trade Shoemaker than Skaggs. 

I'm not sure a 30 year old with an injury history fits a rebuilding team. I think they want young cost controlled assets that will help them in the immediate to near future.

[Mark68]

17 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

I'd be ok with that but I really think that Skaggs has a bounce back year. Players tend to do better as they are 18-24 months removed from TJ. His curveball is disgusting and he's relatively cheap. I'd like him to be our 4th starter. I'd be more inclined to trade Cron + fillers for Hernandez.

Phillies would have no desire for Cron. They'll have Hoskins at first.

[VariousCrap]

13 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I'm just a little worried about Cesar not adjusting well to the AL or leaving Philly's bandbox. Definitely worth the gamble but I'd be nervous eating into our rotation depth for him without a replacement incoming, otherwise I'd be more interested in a FA like Walker, a cheaper trade like Gordon, or paying a premium for a really impactful young 2B - not sure who that would be.

I think if Eppler was to trade for Hernandez, it will be because everything he knows about him leads him to believe he will be able to adjust in the AL.  I don't think Eppler would trade Skaggs if he wasn't 100% sure.

[Mark68]

2 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

I'm not sure a 30 year old with an injury history fits a rebuilding team. I think they want young cost controlled assets that will help them in the immediate to near future.

I think they're pretty close to the end of the rebuild. They'll be contenders in 2019.

[VariousCrap]

17 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

I'd be ok with that but I really think that Skaggs has a bounce back year. Players tend to do better as they are 18-24 months removed from TJ. His curveball is disgusting and he's relatively cheap. I'd like him to be our 4th starter. I'd be more inclined to trade Cron + fillers for Hernandez.

 

Cron isn't getting you anything worth more than a bag of peanuts.

[beatlesrule]

Honey roasted?

[VariousCrap]

Just now, beatlesrule said:

Honey roasted?

 

Yes. And if you're lucky, Costco sized.

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

If they don't trade for Hernandez or someone like Merrifield I think they wait it out and sign a low end FA to a 1 year deal and try again next year.

it's not ideal, but i'd be okay if they signed brandon phillips for a year or two (if push comes to shove).

[Angelsfan1984]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

it's not ideal, but i'd be okay if they signed brandon phillips for a year or two (if push comes to shove).

That would be fine. I don't think he wants to play on the west coast.

[ettin]

1 hour ago, Zardawg16 said:

We honestly don’t know what the Angels are up to. Nobody does, and that’s what makes it so intriguing. Eppler keeps everything quiet, and the only thing we know is that we are in on Ohtani. Once we know what happens there the dominos will start falling... 

Respectfully this is what the entire Angelswin.com 2018 Primer Series was about and I think we did a pretty good job this year. We predicted serious interest in Ohtani (although we were really unsure if we could actually get him), we predicted interest for a trade on a veteran reliever with short term control and Jim Johnson was one of the small handful of names we listed and that happened. We were also predicting Upton back but that happened so damn fast it came before we published (and it was a pretty obvious deal).

Additionally we have predicted a move at 2B as @Jeff Fletcher mentioned above. It is probably THE most obvious prediction actually because there are several options in free agency and trade, it is the position we received the worst production out of in 2017, and the price to acquire can be as low or as high as the Angels desire. On the low end you have names like Brad Miller and Dee Gordon for example and on the higher end you have names like Ozhaino Albies and Cesar Hernandez for instance. Here is the link if you really want to see all of the options likely available: http://thesportsdaily.com/angels-win/angelswin-com-2018-primer-series-middle-infield/

We also predicted a potential front line starter or at least, at the minimum, a multi-innings reliever this year as well.

When you look at the team's finances, current roster construction, players remaining years of control, production at each position, and splits for both hitters and pitchers it gives you a really good picture of the Angels needs and wants and what they can realistically accomplish. That is what the whole Primer Series was about and I recommend you go back and read the whole series to get an appreciation of what the Angels can and cannot do in the 2017-2018 off-season.

[ettin]

1 hour ago, ksangel said:

Angels have huge hole at 2B, Phillies know that so have little incentive to not want the moon and stars.

The Angels have multiple options beyond Cesar Hernandez. The Phillies are fighting a very saturated free agent and trade market for keystone players. The Angels are the ones in the driver's seat, not the other way around.

[krAbs]

4 minutes ago, ettin said:

The Angels have multiple options beyond Cesar Hernandez. The Phillies are fighting a very saturated free agent and trade market for keystone players. The Angels are the ones in the driver's seat, not the other way around.

Well...Do the Phillies actually want to trade Hernandez? If not, I feel like they have a lot of control.

 

Sorry if you covered this in the writeup - I don't know how to read.

[Tank]

2 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Not everything happens in the order of necessity. 

that's what she said.

[Chuck]

5 minutes ago, krAbs said:

Well...Do the Phillies actually want to trade Hernandez? If not, I feel like they have a lot of control.

 

Sorry if you covered this in the writeup - I don't know how to read.

They have Scott Kingery ready to take the reigns at 2B. Kingery's minor league slash line in 2017 between AA-AAA was .304/.359/.530 slash with 26 HR, 29 stolen bases.

[Angelsfan1984]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

They have Scott Kingery ready to take the reigns at 2B. Kingery's minor league slash line in 2017 between AA-AAA was .304/.359/.530 slash with 26 HR, 29 stolen bases.

sounds like we need to trade for Kingery! LOL

[ettin]

5 minutes ago, krAbs said:

Well...Do the Phillies actually want to trade Hernandez? If not, I feel like they have a lot of control.

 

Sorry if you covered this in the writeup - I don't know how to read.

LOL, the length would put you to sleep probably but it has a lot of good information to be honest (not self aggrandizing here it does lay out our options).

The bottom line is that the Phillies can choose to trade Hernandez or not right? They have to feel they are getting a proper return. The Angels have many choices to select from. Now maybe they really want Hernandez because he fits better out of most of the options but the price that the Phillies want may not be the one the Angels want to pay. In that case the Angels can choose a more temporary filler like Ian Kinsler or maybe Brad Miller or they can go a little longer term like Dee Gordon or Jason Kipnis all of which are probably readily available. Because the Angels have options they can pick and choose the best overall fit in terms of production and price to acquire. The Phillies know they are facing a saturated market but they want to get max value and they are going to struggle to do that. For them it is a choice of take what you can get in this current market or hold onto Hernandez another 1/2 year or full year and see if the situation changes at the trade deadline this year or in next year's off-season (but then Hernandez isn't worth quite as much because he has burned a 1/2 year or year of control).

If Hernandez is our ultimate target time is not on the Phillies side. The Angels can simply trade for Ian Kinsler to play for them this year and re-visit Hernandez at the deadline or next year. That is why we are in the driver's seat in my opinion.

[Troll Daddy]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Because the DH spot will be used for Albert and Ohtani.  On the days Ohtani DHs Albert plays first base.  Santana only plays first base these days.  Obviously he could DH, but I highly doubt this is the year the Angels will decide to platoon Albert.  If they did decide to sit him a lot I highly doubt they would pay for a guy like Santana to do that.  My guess is they want to give Albert a surgery free off season to see if he can get into shape and improve his numbers.

I don’t believe that Eppler is looking at Ohtani as a DH. I believe Pujols will continue to DH until proven he can play more often than not at first base. 

If the Angels can sign a upgrade over Cron ... then Ohtani shouldn’t be a factor imo. 

 

[Stradling]

14 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I don’t believe that Eppler is looking at Ohtani as a DH. I believe Pujols will continue to DH until proven he can play more often than not at first base. 

If the Angels can sign a upgrade over Cron ... then Ohtani shouldn’t be a factor imo. 

 

Ok.  Everything we’ve read says he wants to be a two way player.  He also asked for an outline of how he’d be utilized.  If they aren’t planning to give him regular at bats in the DH spot then he probably won’t consider us a contender for his services.  Now it’s totally possible that the narrative of him wanting to be a two way player is being overstated, but I wouldn’t assume that at all. 

[Dave Saltzer]

44 minutes ago, ettin said:

Respectfully this is what the entire Angelswin.com 2018 Primer Series was about and I think we did a pretty good job this year. We predicted serious interest in Ohtani (although we were really unsure if we could actually get him), we predicted interest for a trade on a veteran reliever with short term control and Jim Johnson was one of the small handful of names we listed and that happened. We were also predicting Upton back but that happened so damn fast it came before we published (and it was a pretty obvious deal).

Additionally we have predicted a move at 2B as @Jeff Fletcher mentioned above. It is probably THE most obvious prediction actually because there are several options in free agency and trade, it is the position we received the worst production out of in 2017, and the price to acquire can be as low or as high as the Angels desire. On the low end you have names like Brad Miller and Dee Gordon for example and on the higher end you have names like Ozhaino Albies and Cesar Hernandez for instance. Here is the link if you really want to see all of the options likely available: http://thesportsdaily.com/angels-win/angelswin-com-2018-primer-series-middle-infield/

We also predicted a potential front line starter or at least, at the minimum, a multi-innings reliever this year as well.

When you look at the team's finances, current roster construction, players remaining years of control, production at each position, and splits for both hitters and pitchers it gives you a really good picture of the Angels needs and wants and what they can realistically accomplish. That is what the whole Primer Series was about and I recommend you go back and read the whole series to get an appreciation of what the Angels can and cannot do in the 2017-2018 off-season.

You did a REALLY good job on your series this year @ettin, but then again, you always do. Keep it up!