The Official 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

Really Bora$$?

Your anger isn’t appealing.

Are you next going to say that Arrieta will sit it out too?

Heh heh heh

It’s Moustakas’ fault not Boras. 

[Angel Oracle]

2 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

It’s Moustakas’ fault not Boras. 

And Bora$$ doesn't feed him numbers/ego at all?    Why is it that many more Bora$$ clients pull this stuff than players represented by any other agents?  

[jordan]

I hate to admit it, but Chris Russo had a good point and personal life example yesterday.  Apparently he got a lucrative 5 yr deal with Sirius XM and then at the end of that deal they re-evaluated him and then he said this is why he moved (implying they didn't want to pay him).  He went on to say that what someone might be worth in a market 5 years ago, or 3 years ago doesn't mean they are worth that much today.  He explained it much better than what I'm saying here, but he had a rare viewpoint that I agreed with. 

[Chuck]

Moustakas is holding out for the Angels to sign him later this summer to be our backup 3B/1B for a 4-year deal on the cheap so he can stay at home.

Also, Mike and his wife just had their first baby. I doubt he's in any hurry to get back on the field and start playing, so sitting out a few months is no big deal. 

[mulwin444]

9 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Moustakas is holding out for the Angels to sign him later this summer to be our backup 3B/1B for a 4-year deal on the cheap so he can stay at home.

Also, Mike and his wife just had their first baby. I doubt he's in any hurry to get back on the field and start playing, so sitting out a few months is no big deal. 

Is this just speculation or is this a legit rumor your heard?

I just can't envision a scenario in which the Angels would want him, even on the cheap.

[Chuck]

5 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Is this just speculation or is this a legit rumor your heard?

I just can't envision a scenario in which the Angels would want him, even on the cheap.

Just my thoughts.

I doubt we sign him too, but if takes a hometown discount to be our starting 3B 2019-2021 and part-time player in 2018, I'd do it. 

[jordan]

5 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Just my thoughts.

I doubt we sign him too, but if takes a hometown discount to be our starting 3B 2019-2021 and part-time player in 2018, I'd do it. 

Moose just doesn’t quite fit the player profile for Eppler other than being a lefty bat. Low OBP, not experienced in other positions. But he is a gamer and wants to be here. I just think Arte told Eppler not to mess with Boras and look elsewhere for improvements. 

[mulwin444]

4 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Just my thoughts.

I doubt we sign him too, but if takes a hometown discount to be our starting 3B 2019-2021 and part-time player in 2018, I'd do it. 

I think that's one possible scenario.  Obviously, there has been speculation that after Kinsler's contract is up at the end of 2018, Cozart will move over to 2B leaving a gap at 3B but Cowart or Fletcher or another FA could be given a shot there as well.  Right now, there is no "sure thing" prospect at 3B in the Angels' system so, while Mous might be given a look, I wonder if Eppler might take a chance on a more expensive option like Donaldson. 

[DMVol]

Waiting and signing in season could get him a better deal, if somebody needs a 3bman after an injury or something and panics a little...if he just doesn't have much on the table right now, it might be worth waiting and hope that happens...but if he's got a decent one year deal on the table, that might be a better option...hope you have a good year, turn it in to a multi year deal this coming offseason....

[floplag]

30 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Is this just speculation or is this a legit rumor your heard?

I just can't envision a scenario in which the Angels would want him, even on the cheap.

Why not?  this year is a little dicey but after that we have a huge hole at 3B assuming Cozart moved to 2B.    That doesnt even include the gigantic question mark at 1B.  If he legit wants to be home, its a good match.
If the price was right id do it right now and let bounce between the corners for 1 year as the primary 1B sometimes 3B / DH then take over 3B next year.  Hell he could even spot start in the OF if needed hes got good athleticism.  
That even assumes Albert can actually still play the field, which im less optimistic than i was prior to seeing him this spring.
Unless your sold on Albert being able to play 120+ games at 1B or content with Valbuena being our primary 1B. taking a look makes perfect sense. 

[floplag]

18 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

I think that's one possible scenario.  Obviously, there has been speculation that after Kinsler's contract is up at the end of 2018, Cozart will move over to 2B leaving a gap at 3B but Cowart or Fletcher or another FA could be given a shot there as well.  Right now, there is no "sure thing" prospect at 3B in the Angels' system so, while Mous might be given a look, I wonder if Eppler might take a chance on a more expensive option like Donaldson. 

I dont think we do, hes going to be way overpayed, probably by NY or Bos, and is on the wrong side of 30 for that... i wouldnt do it.
Machado now being out of the third base mix with his comments about wanting to play SS for the duration were foolish in my view but its his life. 
Assuming both of the above there is no answer at 3B next off season, Mous is there now, we should get him in my view.  It would be a mistake to pass Boras or no Boras.  If the player wants to be here he needs to step up and tell his agent to STFU... if its about the money and not the location then so be it, see ya.  

[Ohtaniland]

7 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

I think that's one possible scenario.  Obviously, there has been speculation that after Kinsler's contract is up at the end of 2018, Cozart will move over to 2B leaving a gap at 3B but Cowart or Fletcher or another FA could be given a shot there as well.  Right now, there is no "sure thing" prospect at 3B in the Angels' system so, while Mous might be given a look, I wonder if Eppler might take a chance on a more expensive option like Donaldson. 

I think we should stay away from Mous for the obvious reasons. Moustakas has had some very poor results in every AL West ballpark. I think that Eppler will wait and see how this core group will perform before he pulls the trigger on anymore high end acquisitions. Maybe a deadline type deal like he did with Upton. 

[floplag]

5 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

I think we should stay away from Mous for the obvious reasons. Moustakas has had some very poor results in every AL West ballpark. I think that Eppler will wait and see how this core group will perform before he pulls the trigger on anymore high end acquisitions. Maybe a deadline type deal like he did with Upton. 

The reasons are not so obvious to some, including me.  
Staying away from him means Valbuena as the primary 1B right now.  
a small sample of AL west stats, less than 20 ABs each, doesnt scare me off.   Hes a LH bat with good power and OBP.  If you have a better option im all ears but noone in our system looks ready for at least 2-3 so... 

[mulwin444]

29 minutes ago, floplag said:

Why not?  this year is a little dicey but after that we have a huge hole at 3B assuming Cozart moved to 2B.    That doesnt even include the gigantic question mark at 1B.  If he legit wants to be home, its a good match.
If the price was right id do it right now and let bounce between the corners for 1 year as the primary 1B sometimes 3B / DH then take over 3B next year.  Hell he could even spot start in the OF if needed hes got good athleticism.  
That even assumes Albert can actually still play the field, which im less optimistic than i was prior to seeing him this spring.
Unless your sold on Albert being able to play 120+ games at 1B or content with Valbuena being our primary 1B. taking a look makes perfect sense. 

There is no room right now for him. It's not a question of if I am content with Valbuena at 1B or if I feel Pujols can play 120+ games at 1B, the Angels have envisioned a scenario where 1B, 3B, and DH are going to be shared between Pujols, Valbuena, Cozart and Ohtani...if they wanted another 1B they would have just hung on to Cron.

Mouse's value is at 3B and maybe that value translates itself better on the '19 FA market where he can market himself as a cheaper alternative to Donaldson and Machado but he's not doing himself any favors by delaying his '18.  Despite displaying power in '17, he only posted a 1.8 WAR and only has one standout season in 7 years (2015 .284 .348 OBP .817 OPS 4.4 WAR) so he's not a sure thing.  If the Angels don't have an answer to 3B in '19, sure, look to a 3 year deal but he's nothing special. 

[mulwin444]

6 minutes ago, floplag said:

The reasons are not so obvious to some, including me.  
Staying away from him means Valbuena as the primary 1B right now.  
a small sample of AL west stats, less than 20 ABs each, doesnt scare me off.   Hes a LH bat with good power and OBP.  If you have a better option im all ears but noone in our system looks ready for at least 2-3 so... 

Matt Thaiss is probably 1 to 2 years away...it's most likely why we have Valbuena with 1 year left and Cron traded.  After '18, Pujols will have 3 years left on his deal, so you probably looking at Pujols, Ohtani, and Thaiss between 1B and DH for the foreseeable future. 

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

The reasons are not so obvious to some, including me.  
Staying away from him means Valbuena as the primary 1B right now.  
a small sample of AL west stats, less than 20 ABs each, doesnt scare me off.   Hes a LH bat with good power and OBP.  If you have a better option im all ears but noone in our system looks ready for at least 2-3 so... 

No not at $15M - $20M at this time. Moustakas has never played one out at first base. We’ve already invested in Cozart and Kinsler. Albert, Ohtani and Valbuena are all going to be fighting for AB’s so the NO VACANCY sign is already out there.

[stanick88]

I also have a dream that we sign Moose as our 1b/DH/3b partner with Cozart, Puljos, and Ohtani; and replaces Valbuena altogether on the roster. That would be expensive though as essentially we would be having to pay moose’s Salary and Valbuena”s just to have whatever upgrade Moose brings over Valbuena. But I do admit. Moose is a better defender (at third anyways) and hits for power probably better than Valbuena. Especially now that we lowered right fields wall. May be if we can get someone to take on the rest of Valbuena for a failing prospect. Even if we have to eat a million or two of his salary. That may pave the way for moose. 

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, stanick88 said:

I also have a dream that we sign Moose as our 1b/DH/3b partner with Cozart, Puljos, and Ohtani; and replaces Valbuena altogether on the roster. That would be expensive though as essentially we would be having to pay moose’s Salary and Valbuena”s just to have whatever upgrade Moose brings over Valbuena. But I do admit. Moose is a better defender (at third anyways) and hits for power probably better than Valbuena. Especially now that we lowered right fields wall. May be if we can get someone to take on the rest of Valbuena for a failing prospect. Even if we have to eat a million or two of his salary. That may pave the way for moose. 

Yeah but he’s going to command a large guaranteed multi year deal. We certainly can’t afford to keep writing go away checks to guys like Valbuena $8M. I think they’re going to stick with what they have for now. If the talent we have now can’t win then Moustakas won’t change that. Pitching pitching pitching. 

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

And Bora$$ doesn't feed him numbers/ego at all?    Why is it that many more Bora$$ clients pull this stuff than players represented by any other agents?  

Bottom line he could walk in today and tell Boras he wants a team by Sunday and he would be on a team by Sunday. 

[floplag]

47 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

There is no room right now for him. It's not a question of if I am content with Valbuena at 1B or if I feel Pujols can play 120+ games at 1B, the Angels have envisioned a scenario where 1B, 3B, and DH are going to be shared between Pujols, Valbuena, Cozart and Ohtani...if they wanted another 1B they would have just hung on to Cron.

Mouse's value is at 3B and maybe that value translates itself better on the '19 FA market where he can market himself as a cheaper alternative to Donaldson and Machado but he's not doing himself any favors by delaying his '18.  Despite displaying power in '17, he only posted a 1.8 WAR and only has one standout season in 7 years (2015 .284 .348 OBP .817 OPS 4.4 WAR) so he's not a sure thing.  If the Angels don't have an answer to 3B in '19, sure, look to a 3 year deal but he's nothing special. 

Cron was let go due to lack of versatility

 

39 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

No not at $15M - $20M at this time. Moustakas has never played one out at first base. We’ve already invested in Cozart and Kinsler. Albert, Ohtani and Valbuena are all going to be fighting for AB’s so the NO VACANCY sign is already out there.

You really think he couldnt play it?  i played both corner infield and outfiled spots, im sure he could too.  Hes not a guy with limited mobility thats a 1b only type player.  

Im sure you guys are right, i dont anticipate it happening, and no i wouldnt pay 15 mil plus either.... but you cant say its not a better fit than what we have all things being equal 

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, SuperTroopers said:

Bottom line he could walk in today and tell Boras he wants a team by Sunday and he would be on a team by Sunday. 

That is the way it should work, and probably does for most agents.    Another thing to consider is the possibility that Bora$$ feeds his clients' egos so much that they lose all sense of reality?

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, stanick88 said:

....Especially now that we lowered right fields wall. May be if we can get someone to take on the rest of Valbuena for a failing prospect. Even if we have to eat a million or two of his salary. That may pave the way for moose. 

I brought that up earlier, as the only real way they'd consider signing Moose....move Valbuena's money first....but I think the consensus was that his value isn't close to 8 million....just not sure anybody would take him on unless you included a good prospect in the deal or ate more than a million or two of the salary...

[mulwin444]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

"Cron was let go due to lack of versatility"

Cron was let go because, with Pujols, Ohatani, Valbuena, Cozart, and Cowart, he was not needed, just like Moustakas is not needed right now, as 1B, 3B, and DH is covered for this season.  His lack of versatility didn't help but he was getting expensive, was out of options, and didn't distinguish himself in any way the entire time on MLB roster.  If the guy was mashing, they'd find a way to keep him instead of for someone we don't even know yet.

[Troll Daddy]

7 hours ago, SuperTroopers said:

Bottom line he could walk in today and tell Boras he wants a team by Sunday and he would be on a team by Sunday. 

Truth! I believe Moose should of taken the 17.4M QO and waited until 2019 to go the FA route. It’s looking like there will be more teams needing a 3B. 

Coaching mistake

[bloodbrother]

There is zero reason for the Angels to sign Moustakas. The 1 thing he offers is HR's in a time when HR's are at an all-time high around MLB. Let some other team give him $15 mill a yr to provide league average production