Today's staff vs. 2002

[Torridd]

If we could have our desired starting staff of today healthy and pitching to their potential, which staff would you choose?

[greginpsca]

The 2002 rotation wasn't great , but they were healthy and could consistently give you 5-6 innings. And that pen shut down offences like no other in Angel history.

[happybat4]

22 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

The 2002 rotation wasn't great , but they were healthy and could consistently give you 5-6 innings. And that pen shut down offences like no other in Angel history.

I thought Washburn was one of the best pitchers in baseball that year and Lackey was dominant that year as well. I thought we had a very good staff that year.

[Pheenom07]

25 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

The 2002 rotation wasn't great , but they were healthy and could consistently give you 5-6 innings. And that pen shut down offences like no other in Angel history.

Exactly this, that pen with Weber, Donnelly and FRod was amazing

[VariousCrap]

The 2002 rotation wasn't that good.  The Angels #1 starter that season was Washburn, who would have been a mid-rotation guy on pretty much every other rotation.  Lackey came up towards the end of the season and he showed signs of being a very good pitcher.  The rest of the guys were pretty bad.

The 2002 team did what they did due to an amazing bullpen and an offense that scored runs at will.

[NorCal Halo]

Scott Shields used to be the best set-up man and, as I recall, was for the first half of that year but lost it.  Donnelly was a great find for set-up and then IdiotRod took MLB by storm.  That fast curveball was not hittable.  So I would take 2002 relievers and today's starters.

[zenmaster]

This is not even close. Our current group is lame. 

[VariousCrap]

5 minutes ago, NorCal Halo said:

Scott Shields used to be the best set-up man and, as I recall, was for the first half of that year but lost it.  

 

2002 was not the season Shields fell apart.

The bullpen had Shields, Donnelly, Weber and Percy.  Then in the last month of the season, K-Rod came up and made the bullpen even better.

[Torridd]

The relief was great, but I'm only talking about starters.

[Sully151]

I kinda remember the 2002 staff having balls of steel.

I do t know if this staff has that.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, VariousCrap said:

 

2002 was not the season Shields fell apart.

The bullpen had Shields, Donnelly, Weber and Percy.  Then in the last month of the season, K-Rod came up and made the bullpen even better.

Shields had yet to emerge.   He even started some dozen games in 2003.   In 2004 was where his bullpen dominance began.

In order of game appearance, the backend for much of 2002 was Levine, Weber, Donnally, and Percy.  

Shields was joined in middle innings work mainly by Schoeneweis (after demotion to pen to make way for Lackey) and for part of the year a surprising Lou Pote.

K-Rod of course appeared in mid-September,  and was tucked between Weber and Donnelly in October.

Washburn was solid through 2005 and then left.   Lackey was solid in 2002, struggled in 2003 and 2004, and was solid the next 5 years after that.   The rest (Ortiz, Appier, and Sele) never did that much again after 2002.

[ksangel]

Washburn, Ortiz, Appier (all made 32 starts) Sele and Lackey vs. Bridwell, Ramirez, Chavez, Nolasco, Shoemaker, Skaggs and Meyers???

No comparison, 2002 was better.

 

Next year:

1 & 2. Count on two of Heaney, Richards, Shoe and Ramirez being healthy at times

3. Bridwell 

4. Skaggs staying healthy...I think he's less of a risk than the four above.

5. Eppler finds another arm like Bridwell

That would give them five + ok starters

Depth at AAA would be Tropeano (major league ready by mid 2018?), Barria (major league ready by later in 2018), Scribner, Daniel Wright, Canning???  Thin for sure.

With holes to be filled in LF, 3B and 2B it seems it will be a $$$ challenge to sign a top of the rotation starter like Darvish or Arrieta - so hopefully a mid-level starter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gurn67]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Shields had yet to emerge.   He even started some dozen games in 2003.   In 2004 was where his bullpen dominance began.

In order of game appearance, the backend for much of 2002 was Levine, Weber, Donnally, and Percy.  

Shields was joined in middle innings work mainly by Schoeneweis (after demotion to pen to make way for Lackey) and for part of the year a surprising Lou Pote.

K-Rod of course appeared in mid-September,  and was tucked between Weber and Donnelly in October.

Washburn was solid through 2005 and then left.   Lackey was solid in 2002, struggled in 2003 and 2004, and was solid the next 5 years after that.   The rest (Ortiz, Appier, and Sele) never did that much again after 2002.

Is it just a coincidence that when Mike Scioscia was considered a genius, he had a healthy Scot Shields in the pen?

[GrittyVeterans]

The rotation in 2002 had guys who could take the ball once every 5 days and not be a total liability. 

The only Angels pitchers this year that provided some shred of reliability for a chunk of the season were JC Ramirez (now injured of course) and Parker Bridwell

 

[stormngt]

3 hours ago, Pheenom07 said:

Exactly this, that pen with Weber, Donnelly and FRod was amazing

Forgot Percival and Shields. Frankie came in as a set up man.

[AngelsFanSince86]

2002 rotation was very solid.  8th in MLB in ERA (4.00 starter ERA) and middle of the pack in WAR.  They were durable that year though.  I think IF healthy and playing to potential the current rotation would be better, but that is not and never will be the case.

The 2002 rotation was healthy and played mostly to potential.  A couple had career years.  Ramon Ortiz had over 200 IP and had the best season of his career. Washburn had over 200 IP and had a very good year that was also the best of his career.  Lackey started in the second half and pitched over 100 innings of very solid work.

The team did so well that year largely because so many of their position players and relievers collectively had the best years of their career.  Including: Scott Spiezio, Adam Kennedy, David Eckstein, Garret Anderson, Erstad had his second best year (had two years above 6 WAR and that was one of them), Brad Fullmer, Ben Weber, and guys like Sheilds and Donelly having breakout years.  Add to that K-Rod and the fact the starting pitchers were keeping them in almost every game.  They weren't the type of team that had guys who could routinely threaten to shut a team out, but as a whole the staff was allowing an average of 3-4 runs a game and the offense was averaging 5.  

Compare that to the current team who is averaging giving up 4.23 runs while the offense is averaging 4.231 runs per game.

[Tank]

i'd like to see what our current staff could do if everyone was healthy.

that being said, i'd take the starting five from '02 any day of the week over our current group of medical replacements and guys from the witness protection program.

[Adam]

I'd take Mickey Callaway, Ken Hill and Scott Lewis over the shit we're slinging out there these days

[Angel Oracle]

32 minutes ago, Adam said:

I'd take Mickey Callaway, Ken Hill and Scott Lewis over the shit we're slinging out there these days

How about Jeff Juden, Tim Belcher, and Kent Bottomfield?