Pujols' 2017 OPS

[JustATroutFan]

I know, another Pujols thread. And we all know how bad he has been this whole season basically. But how high should his OPS must be for it to make at least many people to consider him a "good hitter"? This is just based on OPS and not who is the player. I used to have a tough time thinking, "What is the lowest OPS a hitter can have to be considered good? I eventually used Bill James' OPS scale to help me out. A great OPS is .900 or higher, a very good OPS is .8333 to .8999, a good OPS is .7667 to .8333, am average OPS is .7000 to .7667, and basically , any OPS under .7000 is pretty bad. Right now, Pujols has an OPS of .656 this season. Yikes!

Also, I have to wonder, have there any player in MLB history who had an OPS under .700 entering September and eventually finished the same season with an OPS of at least .767 with as many as least 500 plate appearances? Have to do research on this and maybe I get lucky and find at least one player.

[Docwaukee]

I would accept Albert being a league average offensive player at this point.  I'd probably still complain, but at least that trajectory would be in line with his decline.  He's really fallen off a cliff this year.  

[Billy_Ball]

GOAT

[wopphil]

He is done. He looks terrible, and the results match. It will be interesting to see how long Arte and Scioscia stubbornly insist upon playing him every game and batting him in the three spot. 

[UndertheHalo]

He sucks.  Everyone gets it.  Everyone knew it would come to this.  If you didn't you're dumb. 

We got 4 decent years. 

It didn't work as such it wasn't worth it.  That part blows dick.

Nobody has crystal balls.  They tried.  Be happy they tried and hope they do better with the next big FA contract.

 This is the price you pay for going for the biggest fish in FA.

Deal bros.  The Angels have to. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[vladdy#27]

It all depends on what you can do. A primary position like SS, C, and CF if you bring above average defense it's okay if your OPS is around .700-.750. If you are average definsively your OPS should be in the .750-.800 range. If you're terrible defensively you should be .800+ at least. 

I think at no point under .700 is really acceptable, unless you are one of the very best defenders at your position (Simmons 13-16/Pillar), a speed guy off the bench, a backup middle infielder, or a catcher (good fielding)

As a DH I would expect at the very least .780ish, basically what he was from 14-16. A .650 OPS just isn't going to cut it when literally anyone can play there and it wouldn't be difficult to find a replacement for cheap that could put up at least .725-.750

His trend over the last 9 years does not give us a promising future

09: 1.101

10: 1.011 (-.090)

11: .906 (-.105)

12: .859 (-.047)

13: Only played 100 games/future numbers show that he likely wasn't 100% when playing

14-16: .786 average (-.073)

17: .655 (-.131)

Is this another down year like 2013, where he'll bounce back and his OPS will be in the .725 range? Possibly. But what he has shown since he hit 30 is that once he falls off he doesn't really ever bounce back. Left the 1.100s and never came back. Left the 1.000s and never came back. Left the .900s and never came back. Left the .800s and never came back. Hovered around the .780s for three years, but we likely will never see that again. 

Best case scenario he bounces back and OPSs in the .700-.725 range. More likely he bounces back a little into the .680 range. Where he continues dropping in subsequent seasons. 

It's clear that he's going to start in 2018 regardless (aside from the 1% chance he retires) but he has to be dropped in the lineup. There is no reason he should be getting the 4th most plate appearances on this team. 

If he doesn't improve to .700-.725 in 2018 the Angels need to seriously consider buying him out of the 3 remaining years and 90M. He is not going to be a bench player and he has no reason to be a starter on a team that is trying to contend. 

[wopphil]

8 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

He sucks.  Everyone gets it.  Everyone knew it would come to this.  If you didn't you're dumb. 

We got 4 decent years. 

It didn't work as such it wasn't worth it.  That part blows dick.

Nobody has crystal balls.  They tried.  Be happy they tried and hope they do better with the next big FA contract.

 This is the price you pay for going for the biggest fish in FA.

Deal bros.  The Angels have to. 

I agree with all this, except to the extent you are suggesting (if you in fact are) that he should continue to play everyday and bat third. Just because they made a terrible decision signing him doesn't mean they need to continue doubling down each game. 

[UndertheHalo]

21 minutes ago, wopphil said:

I agree with all this, except to the extent you are suggesting (if you in fact are) that he should continue to play everyday and bat third. Just because they made a terrible decision signing him doesn't mean they need to continue doubling down each game. 

i definitely don't think he should be batting 3rd.  I'm just not that worried about it right now. 

[eligrba]

It might be Mission Impossible to convince Albert, Arte and Mike that a change is necessary when Albert is again leading the team in RBI's.

[Troll Daddy]

Hits too many ground balls 

[Troll Daddy]

55 minutes ago, eligrba said:

It might be Mission Impossible to convince Albert, Arte and Mike that a change is necessary when Albert is again leading the team in RBI's.

not really ... they're smarter than the fans

[Angel Oracle]

Has any other manager ever kept someone in the 3 spot for so long, despite such a low OPS.

Valbuena against lefties hits rings around Pujols.    Most managers likely have him hitting before Pujols.

[JustATroutFan]

So far, the lowest OPS (at least 500 plate appearances) entering September for a player that finished the season with an OPS of .767 or higher was .702, which was accomplished by Justin Upton last season. He would finish the season at .775.

[Jobu]

32 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

not really ... there smarter than the fans

I understand why you feel that way.

[Troll Daddy]

52 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Has any other manager ever kept someone in the 3 spot for so long, despite such a low OPS.

Valbuena against lefties hits rings around Pujols.    Most managers likely have him hitting before Pujols.

This will be fixed in the off season. Valbuena had been crap most of the season. 

Speculating what other managers would do is senseless. 

When it comes to Pujols spot in the lineup it reflects on Eppler as much as Scioscia imo. It's Eppler's responsibility to fix it not Scioscia's. 

[floplag]

15 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

When it comes to Pujols spot in the lineup it reflects on Eppler as much as Scioscia imo. It's Eppler's responsibility to fix it not Scioscia's. 

I'm sorry but i absolutely 100% disagree with this.  
The Gm's job is to give the manager the best roster he can, the managers job is to manage that roster and put the right people in the right spots at the right times.  The GM doesnt decide the batting order or whose in the lineup from one day to the next.  Thats all on the skipper, 100%.  

I blame Eppler for some of whats on the roster right now and not doing a better job to fix the problems, though he has obviously been hamstrung by payroll issues for some ungodly absurd reason and had limited options.  

I blame Scoscia for how hes used those parts, and Pujols still in the 3 this late in such a horrific season is among the biggest mistakes ive seen any manager make, ever.   

[yk9001]

Why would the gm need to get anybody?

PUJOLS IS STILL ONE OF THE BEST RUN PRODUCERS IN THE GAME!!!1!!!!!

[Troll Daddy]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

I'm sorry but i absolutely 100% disagree with this.  
The Gm's job is to give the manager the best roster he can, the managers job is to manage that roster and put the right people in the right spots at the right times.  The GM doesnt decide the batting order or whose in the lineup from one day to the next.  Thats all on the skipper, 100%.  

I blame Eppler for some of whats on the roster right now and not doing a better job to fix the problems, though he has obviously been hamstrung by payroll issues for some ungodly absurd reason and had limited options.  

I blame Scoscia for how hes used those parts, and Pujols still in the 3 this late in such a horrific season is among the biggest mistakes ive seen any manager make, ever.   

Ok valid response ... but Pujols position in the lineup is arguably the most impactful spot. If the fans feel this strongly against him batting behind Trout ... I'm sure Eppler has his opinion too.

You don't believe Eppler has the authority for a change this big? 

 

[Slegnaac]

42 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Ok valid response ... but Pujols position in the lineup is arguably the most impactful spot. If the fans feel this strongly against him batting behind Trout ... I'm sure Eppler has his opinion too.

You don't believe Eppler has the authority for a change this big? 

 

Hard to say if he has authority for this change.  There are a lot of egos that could be effected (Artie, Scoscia, Albert).  I don't think it is a cut and dry scenario.

[ksangel]

Do any of you think Pujols will walk away from the remaining four years on his contract ($114M) ?

Maybe he would walk away if he incurs a career ending injury but can't see it for any other reason. 

It's really difficult to stomach imagining him in the line up four more years...no matter where he bats...what a negative impact.  

Too bad the public can't vote out players who stink like they can Presidents...

[floplag]

53 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Ok valid response ... but Pujols position in the lineup is arguably the most impactful spot. If the fans feel this strongly against him batting behind Trout ... I'm sure Eppler has his opinion too.

You don't believe Eppler has the authority for a change this big? 

 

Well, he is the GM but im not going to speculate as to whether or not he gets in the managers kitchen on things like this.  He is at the end of the day supposedly the managers boss.  I have no reason to assume that Eppler is doing such things, never read anything about it, and in fact as i recall one of the reasons that DiPoto was shown the door was interference with Scoscia, or attempted interference anyway so since he won that war and the GM was the one shown the door im assuming Eppler is staying out of that one.

with GMs being much more statistical these days with seemingly everyone either playing moneyball or at least trying to,  call me old school but i still believe there is more to the game than that and you need an actual baseball guy in the dugout, not a statistician.  

[floplag]

13 minutes ago, ksangel said:

Do any of you think Pujols will walk away from the remaining four years on his contract ($114M) ?

Maybe he would walk away if he incurs a career ending injury but can't see it for any other reason. 

It's really difficult to stomach imagining him in the line up four more years...no matter where he bats...what a negative impact.  

Too bad the public can't vote out players who stink like they can Presidents...

Walk away, no.... do i think he could be given a front office job in some capacity with a silly salary for that job to re-assign the money elsewhere, perhaps.   

[JustATroutFan]

Not saying it is impossible for Pujols to finish the season with a .767 OPS but he will really have to play like he did during his best season from here on out, like in 2008.

[yk9001]

15 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

Not saying it is impossible for Pujols to finish the season with a .767 OPS but he will really have to play like he did during his best season from here on out, like in 2008.

No, that actually sounds impossible.

[Angel Oracle]

He would need over a 1.300 OPS the rest of the way.

In other words, impossible!