AngelsWin.com Today: The Scioscia Era – Where did it go wrong?

[Blarg]

5 hours ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

The Angels have had two GM's quit there jobs, while Scioscia was the Angels manager. Scioscia made it so bad, that Stoneman gave up his mistress and went back to his wife.

Stoneman didn't quit. He signed an extension when Moreno took over which took him to the end of the 2007 season as GM with an additional three years as a consultant. He was still working in that capacity when Jerry Dipoto was hired, I spoke with him at Spring Training that year, he sat two rows behind us.

He never wanted to return as GM, even made it clear he was only going to take the chair for the interim after Dipoto quit.  It was more work than he wanted to dedicate his time to. 

Honestly,  Bob, every time you post something you prove you know absolutely nothing about the Angels franchise. 

[tdawg87]

Lol

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

He stepped down, he quit. Playing with words. 

Um no he didn't.  

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

He stepped down, he quit. Playing with words. 

Bob, his contract to be GM expired at the end of the 2007 season by the terms he set in place back when he negotiated the extension. He didn't step down or quit, he just honored his contract to be GM until the end of it's term and resumed working with the Angels in semi retirement.

This had nothing to do with Scioscia, the manager he hired and could have dismissed at any time. This had to do with looking at age 65 right around the corner and never being home. 

Get a life, dude. 

 

[JoJo26]

If I had a Delorean - I'd go back in time and:

Tell silver-tips Juan Rivera to stay away from Bam-Bam (and home plate) after that granny.

Tell Arte to stop at greatness with Vladdy signing....

Inform Stoneman that these guys are expendable: Brandon Wood, Jeff Mathis, Dallas McPherson...go ahead and trade them for real players who can hit.

Keep Rex Hudler...Never Hire Mike Butcher

[CanadianHalo]

It's seriously time for a change.

This isn't an angry "fire Scioscia" post, it's just time we moved on and got a new voice in there. 

[Lou]

7 hours ago, CanadianHalo said:

It's seriously time for a change.

This isn't an angry "fire Scioscia" post, it's just time we moved on and got a new voice in there. 

This I can agree with. But to go on and on about what a lousy manager Scioscia has been is just asinine. 

[Stradling]

8 hours ago, CanadianHalo said:

It's seriously time for a change.

This isn't an angry "fire Scioscia" post, it's just time we moved on and got a new voice in there. 

I completely agree, the fans need a new voice in the Angels dugout.  

[gurn67]

Arte seems to have no problem dealing out hundreds of millions of dollars to veterans who are at the point of their careers where there's nowhere to go but down. However, he absolutely will not pay a tiny fraction of that cost for a proven GM.

[tomsred]

24 minutes ago, gurn67 said:

Arte seems to have no problem dealing out hundreds of millions of dollars to veterans who are at the point of their careers where there's nowhere to go but down. However, he absolutely will not pay a tiny fraction of that cost for a proven GM.

Neither do most other teams in baseball,  It's based on supply and demand.  Their are fewer possibilities to acquire exceptional players than acquiring GM's.

[tomsred]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

I completely agree, the fans need a new voice in the Angels dugout.  

The problem is Strad that it's not what the fans need, it is what the team needs to succeed.  Replacing Scioscia should only be done if it is an improvement.  You don't replace him because the fans are tired of his voice.  That said there are likely some great managers who are better, but can the team hire them?  And can they fit well with the system and front office personnel that Arte wants in place?

[Stradling]

59 minutes ago, tomsred said:

The problem is Strad that it's not what the fans need, it is what the team needs to succeed.  Replacing Scioscia should only be done if it is an improvement.  You don't replace him because the fans are tired of his voice.  That said there are likely some great managers who are better, but can the team hire them?  And can they fit well with the system and front office personnel that Arte wants in place?

I know.  This is exactly the point I was making.  I think most here understood I was being sarcastic.  

[JoJo26]

2 hours ago, gurn67 said:

Arte seems to have no problem dealing out hundreds of millions of dollars to veterans who are at the point of their careers where there's nowhere to go but down. However, he absolutely will not pay a tiny fraction of that cost for a proven GM.

AND the fooking beer prices are outta control. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, gurn67 said:

Arte seems to have no problem dealing out hundreds of millions of dollars to veterans who are at the point of their careers where there's nowhere to go but down. However, he absolutely will not pay a tiny fraction of that cost for a proven GM.

He wasn't hired by Moreno but Stoneman was a nobody....  He did however offer him a huge sum to stay on, Stoney refused.  

I don't know that proven GM's are as big of a deal as they used to be..  Outside of Dan Duquette in Baltimore and Sandy Alderson in NY, I can't really recall a recent hiring of an established MLB GM.  Theo and Dombrowski were both established guys who got bumped up to VP jobs..  Friedman too in LA.   But Hazen was a rookie GM in Boston, and Theo's hire was anything but proven, Jed Hoyer had been the GM in SD but not fared all that well, he was basically Theo's buddy..  The Dodgers guy was head of player development in Oakland but he was a rookie GM.  Hahn in Chicago was a rookie GM, player development guy I think..  Chernoff in Cleveland was a rookie GM.  Al Avila was Dombrowski's assistant going all the way back to his Marlins days -- but he too was a rookie.  Thad Levine is a rookie in Minnesota, formerly an assistant to Jon Daniels in Texas. Luhnoff was a rookie GM in Houston.  Dayton Moore was a rookie GM when he took over in KC.  David Forst was a rookie GM in Oakland.  Daniels in Texas was a rookie hire -- I think he was the youngest GM ever when he was hired.  JD mucked things up in Anaheim then got hired in Seattle..  Matthew Silverman in TB was their VP, he assumed the GM job but again -- rookie.  Ross Atkins in Toronto was a rookie hire having previously been a player development guy in Cleveland.  John Coppolella moved from assistant GM to GM in Atlanta but also a rookie.  The guy in Cinci was a rookie GM that got moved up.  Mozeliak in StL was their player development guy but a rookie GM.. Jeff Bridich was a player development guy so another rookie.  Milwaukee's guy Stearns or whatever was a rookie GM.  The Phillies went with our former assistant GM, Klentak -- so, another rookie.  The Pirates guy was a rookie GM, Huntington had been a special assistant to Shapiro.   AJ Preller was a rookie GM in San Diego.  The guy in SF was the assistant to the former GM, but also a rookie GM.  Mike Rizzo in Washington another rookie hire, former assistant GM... 

So basically -- the only guys I can remember had any previous GM experience were Duquette, Alderson, JD, and Hoyer. 

There arent many Branch Rickey's anymore...

[Angel Oracle]

Besides, in Eppler we trust.

[Stradling]

14 minutes ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

Maybe Arte doesn't sign Hamiliton,  if Scioscia didn't screw-up the 2012 season. How the Angels didn't make the postseason with that team is inexcusable ?

So when you suck at work is it your fault or the managers fault?  

[Angel Oracle]

12 minutes ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

Maybe Arte doesn't sign Hamiliton,  if Scioscia didn't screw-up the 2012 season. How the Angels didn't make the postseason with that team is inexcusable ?

Answer is while the offense was solid, there was inconsistent starting pitching tinged with some inconsistent bullpen work (team ERA of 4.02 was only 8th best).   Weave was great, and Grienke was solid after being acquired.   But Nibs and Haren both had ERA's around 4.00, and Santana crapped the couch with a plus 5.00 ERA.    In the pen, Frieri was better than he would ever be here, granted he blew a critical save for Grienke late season.   Otherwise, Downs was beginning to struggle some, Jepsen was doing fine for him, and the others were meh.   Texas and Oakland had better pitching. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

40 minutes ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

Maybe Arte doesn't sign Hamiliton,  if Scioscia didn't screw-up the 2012 season. How the Angels didn't make the postseason with that team is inexcusable ?

Totally. I mean looking at that roster of pitching depth, i can easilly point the finger at sosh. 

Pay close attention to haren and santana that year...both who were supposed to form a super rotation along with weaver (did his part) and cj wilson (era+ of 100). Crazy that 2 of 5 starts over the course of the year were dogshit, with cj wilson being average for another fifth of the starts, couldnt lead to more glory once the ball was handed over to the rock solid bullpen of jason isringhausen, latroy hawkins, and takahashi.

Frieri was our bullpen bright spot that season....frieri...

[Stradling]

19 minutes ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

Self-employed, I don't have that problem. When the Angels suck it's not Scioscia's fault, when the Angels play good he gets the credit.

You have that backwards.  

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Totally. I mean looking at that roster of pitching depth, i can easilly point the finger at sosh. 

Pay close attention to haren and santana that year...both who were supposed to form a super rotation along with weaver (did his part) and cj wilson (era+ of 100). Crazy that 2 of 5 starts over the course of the year were dogshit, with cj wilson being average for another fifth of the starts, couldnt lead to more glory once the ball was handed over to the rock solid bullpen of jason isringhausen, latroy hawkins, and takahashi.

Frieri was our bullpen bright spot that season....frieri...

You have to remember that facts aren't as real as feelings. 

[Inside Pitch]

 

I think it's great that the patients at Arkham Asylum are periodically given access to the internet.

[Docwaukee]

4 hours ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

Self-employed, I don't have that problem. When the Angels suck it's not Scioscia's fault, when the Angels play good he gets the credit.

wrote no one ever.  

[Docwaukee]

34 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

 

I think it's great that the patients at Arkham Asylum are periodically given access to the internet.

that's so weird.  I read all of ANAHEIMBOBS post in a bane voice.  

'Batman......do you like Scioscia Batman?  I consider him to be way overrated Batman.'

[Lou]

1 hour ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

If Scioscia wasn't such a pompous ass, the players might try a little bit harder. Everybody knew Ervin Santana was a head case. Scioscia loves to pull a pitcher when he is doing good and leaves them in when there getting hammered. Scioscia screws up ,there ERA.  You see how he treats umpires, you think he treats his players any different. The Angels were better then the in 2005. The were good in 2004, he couldn't figure out a way to get along Jose Guillen.  The stupid squeeze play against the Red Sox.  They could have beat the Yankees in 2009. The Angels could have the first two game against the Royals  in 2014. Scioscia's postseason decisions have been atrocious.  

You make me laugh.

 

[IEAngelsfan]

23 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

that's so weird.  I read all of ANAHEIMBOBS post in a bane voice.  

'Batman......do you like Scioscia Batman?  I consider him to be way overrated Batman.'

Ok, I chuckled.