How do the Angels get younger, deeper and better?

[Adam]

Here is the thing that frustrates me the most about Angels fans. What dictates a quality pitcher? Is it a guy who is going to eat 200 innings a year? A sub 4.00 ERA? An ERA+ of around 160-180? There are multiple things that a pitcher can excel at to be considered quality. The bottom line is I think most Angel fans at this point in time would just be happy with a guy with an ERA around 5.00 and can pitch 6-7 inning while allowing under 5 runs. 

 

Like it or not, out of Vargas, Hanson, and Blanton you are not getting much return were you to trade them, even then you have to wait it out until after the trade deadline via a waiver trade. Even then you are hoping someone over reaches. Blanton isn't going to go anywhere this year, he is locked up for 2 years for roughly double what he should have been paid. In terms of quality vs cost it's an albatross contract.

 

The only thing you can really do this year is start by maybe making a trade involving someone like Bourjos or Kendrick or Callaspo, then realizing that you aren't getting an A prospect. Realistically you are getting maybe a B but most likely a low C propsect. Out of those 3 players, Bourjos nets you the best return, but there is constantly outcry about keeping Bourjos.

 

The only option right now to provide an influx of arms is to call them up and see how they do. We don't have a lot of talent in the system, but in terms of what you are getting from your "veterans" the statistical difference would be minimal, possibly even better. What prevents the organization of doing something like this is that there is no history with prospects. We can look at Vargas' body of work and realize that he will most likely return to form sometime during the season and pitch quite well.

 

 

I think your opinion is fine. However, the context of my question pertains to making them better next year. You're saying they can't get better by next year. Fair enough.

[deakscauz]

I think your opinion is fine. However, the context of my question pertains to making them better next year. You're saying they can't get better by next year. Fair enough.

 

Actually Adam, I think they can easily become much better by next year. Your stipulation was that neither Bourjos or Trumbo could be traded. If we take this into account very well. That leaves you with realistically very little to trade. You have maybe Kendrick or Aybar, though I don't know if Aybar's contract has a no trade clause or not. You might be able to squeeze a team at the deadline to get a low D prospect for Hanson or Vargas, and that's a big maybe. I think the thing that you want is to know how they get better, so I will tell you. If the entire team stays the same and no roster moves are made a lot of money comes off the books next year. Vargas at $8 mil, Downs at $5 mil, Hanson at $4ish mil, etc. I think if you add it up something like $20-25 million is coming off the books, more if you can trade Blanton for a bag of balls if the other teams takes on the contract.

 

$20-25 million is roughly 1/4 of a small market team, closer to 1/3 with some. I think that at the end of the year we could easily rebuild a struggling bullpen and starting rotation with that kind of money, and that isn't even including possible trades by the end of the year. The deal is, there are a ton of options out there, it's just that the average fan thinks that getting (or getting rid of) 1 or 2 players will make the biggest difference, when it won't. What about management such as Scoscia? You could buy a great reliever for 2 mil a year, and watch as Mike misuses him. There is more wrong with the philosophy of the Angels than their actual skills at the game.

[Brent Maguire]

Maybe if Grigori posts that same message 10 more times it'll eventually be funny. 

[Adam]

Actually Adam, I think they can easily become much better by next year. Your stipulation was that neither Bourjos or Trumbo could be traded. If we take this into account very well. That leaves you with realistically very little to trade. You have maybe Kendrick or Aybar, though I don't know if Aybar's contract has a no trade clause or not. You might be able to squeeze a team at the deadline to get a low D prospect for Hanson or Vargas, and that's a big maybe. I think the thing that you want is to know how they get better, so I will tell you. If the entire team stays the same and no roster moves are made a lot of money comes off the books next year. Vargas at $8 mil, Downs at $5 mil, Hanson at $4ish mil, etc. I think if you add it up something like $20-25 million is coming off the books, more if you can trade Blanton for a bag of balls if the other teams takes on the contract.

 

$20-25 million is roughly 1/4 of a small market team, closer to 1/3 with some. I think that at the end of the year we could easily rebuild a struggling bullpen and starting rotation with that kind of money, and that isn't even including possible trades by the end of the year. The deal is, there are a ton of options out there, it's just that the average fan thinks that getting (or getting rid of) 1 or 2 players will make the biggest difference, when it won't. What about management such as Scoscia? You could buy a great reliever for 2 mil a year, and watch as Mike misuses him. There is more wrong with the philosophy of the Angels than their actual skills at the game.

 

So you're saying they should sign more free agents.

[Chris]

Can we trade Scioscia for a pitcher to be named later?

[deakscauz]

So you're saying they should sign more free agents.

 

Yes, and no. Will the team need to sign free agents next year? Of course. Just throwing up your arms and implying that no free agents can be acquired or that this course of action is folly are just flat out ridiculous. Most teams actually have to sign free agents simply to fill out their major league rosters due to their farm systems are long term plans...it's why people use the term "stop-gap" in baseball. What I am essentially saying is that of the $25-30 million the angels will have to spend next year, it should be spent wisely. If it were up to me, I'd rid the team of guys like Callaspo, Aybar, Iannetta, Kendrick, Bourjous, etc. I would sell them to the highest bidder and move on.

 

Will it be the best course of action? Probably not, I'm not big on signing free agents and prefer teams that build within, but like it or not, the next 4-5 years are going to be free agent heavy unless this team does some serious rebuilding.

[Angel Oracle]

Thing though is, your starters can get you into the 7th inning, but if your bullpen stinks to high heaven, it doesn't do any good.

 

What is it about Halos relievers, and finding it hard to stay healthy????

 

Oh, and overs/unders on Madson's return might as well start with post-2013 ASB. 

[70runner]

Get younger and deeper?  Lets see, trade some young guys like PB and Trumbo, even Trout?  Sure.

 

With the albatross contracts that Arte likes so much, there are few options for younger and deeper.  Basically we've sacrificed the future for now, and now is broke.  Somebody said it, the Angel's strategy to collect as many all stars as possible is an NBA model.  Ask the Lakers how that's working out. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

There really aren't any good options. We are locked into FA deals that other teams will not have any interest in for a long time. Think about Manny Ramirez when he was with the Sox. Huge deal, no one would touch him in a trade, then a few years went by, the contract got smaller, and suddenly he had value. The issue with the Angels FA contracts is that they aren't any where near done. No one will have interest in these guys for years, if ever. They will be on this team during any rebuild and likely even during the turn around years.

 

The only trade chips we really have are young guys we'd like to hang onto, guys who would help us in the future. Even our low level prospects are in question, who exactly is going to be a star on this team 4 years from now? This is compounded by Mike Trout getting more and more expensive each year. 

 

We are getting worse and more expensive each year and I think we are just going to have to deal with it. We might be able to rebuild in a few years if things break our way, until then I think this team is just stuck.

[ten ocho recon scout]

What's wrong with Mexicans from Mexico?

Pandoras box with that question....

[tdawg87]

Weaver would net a pretty decent package of prospects.....

 

Just saying.

[ten ocho recon scout]

No, and please, let's not even pretend that unloading Wilson, Pujols and Hamilton are realistic scenarios.

 

Pujols didn't have a great year by his standards, but he had a great year for an average player, even what an average player would consider a "career year." So yes, Pujols may have had a "down year," but still quite good in most regards. Also, what upsets people so much is that he didn't have a "great year" for Albert Pujols standards. So he didn't hit .340/45-50HR/125+RBI. The best thing for Albert right now I truly believe is to go on the DL for 15 days and do absolutely nothing but rest his foot. You don't play a $200million+ investment in the condition he is in. When he returns you have hit become a full time DH and allow Trumbo to solidify himself at 1st.

 

Hamilton is bar none the streakiest hitter I have ever seen. To think that he will a) yield anything on the trade floor right now is just plain idiotic, and b ) he will not have this type of year all year. Once again, he will have what most likely will be a below average year for Hamilton, but an above average year for most players. I foresee a .250/25HR/85RBI type year give or take. Is that atrocious? No. Is it for the type of money he makes? Of course, and that is the sticking issue again.

 

People just need to realize that you aren't pissed that these players are having bad years so to speak, you are most likely pissed that they make so much and are having bad years. But to throw out trade scenarios where guys like Wilson, Pujols, and Kendrick are traded as one package for C level prospects is....well I don't know exactly how to put it. 

 

Face the music. On this roster you have very few trade options. Kendrick is one, but most likely this year only as a partial no trade kicks in next year. You could theoretically trade Trumbo or Trout, though management would be fired very quickly I imagine. And you have Bourjos and maybe Aybar. Outside that you have prospects. You don't contend for years straight by renting players, you do it by renting your players to other teams for their prospects.

Well put. This would have been the post of the entire thread, but you failed to include any thoughts on dominican koreans. SO its an A- instead of A+.

[YouthofToday]

We would have to eat at least $100 million if we decided to trade Pujols... Which will never happen. Pujols will retire an Angel... After 2022.

[Jason]

Weaver would net a pretty decent package of prospects.....

 

Just saying.

Not with his 85 mph heater.

[YouthofToday]

Yeah, if Weaver was pitching like he was before the injury to his left arm he doesn't have any trade value.

[Mark68]

Pandoras box with that question....

What's wrong with boxes that belong to Pandora?

[Angel Oracle]

Thank you Arte

[Tyler]

You're welcome.

[Docwaukee]

Can't trade weaver. He took a team friendly deal to stay. Unless he wanted out of course.

This team can win if the players play as they should. Since that is still likely the thought process of the front office, there will be no selling.

There is also too much money out to too few players that can't be moved.

People will still have hope right or wrong that the team can win if the same offense is on the field next year and dipoto adds a solid starter. And because of that, people will show up and pay for the high salaries owed to the four main guys.

It's about money. If you sell off a bunch of spare parts then its send a message to the fans that they aren't trying to win and they won't show up. Even if its only for awhile, arte needs it to pay those salaries. The general fan doesn't buy into a rebuild.

Weaver, josh Johnson, Wilson, Hanson, and jason hammel to start 2014, and hope will be restored to the general fan

[Tyler]

Not this one.