Angels' negotiations with Anaheim get off to a rocky start

[Ohtaniland]

3 hours ago, California Cajun said:

If the plumbing lasted 50 years, why not let Arte and Anaheim split the cost of utility repairs and let the City develop the land as it sees fit?  Arte shouldn't have any serious maintenance costs for the rest of his ownership.  You can't make the Big A into a new park but I really don't read many complaints about it.

The stadium needs more than plumbing and paint. It's obsolete compared to the newer stadiums around the league. The stadium has done its job and now needs to be upgraded or demolished. There's really nothing iconic about the stadium except the Big A in the parking lot. 

[rvt]

23 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

The stadium needs more than plumbing and paint. It's obsolete compared to the newer stadiums around the league. The stadium has done its job and now needs to be upgraded or demolished. There's really nothing iconic about the stadium except the Big A in the parking lot. 

Right..and when you're discussing renovating vs. new, some of these renovation and remedial costs explode quickly.  So really the devil is in the details here.  Then you toss in the very attractive prospect of developing from a clean slate-stadium and surrounding infrastructure.  Very attractive loan rates.  This could be a good place for an owner to think big!  Not thinking that person is Arte Moreno but we will see.   

[Dollar Bill]

Arte Moreno had that option in Tustin. He passed. That doesn't mean he couldn't do so elsewhere - maybe even next to the current stadium - but that would not appear to be his first choice.

[Jobu]

8 minutes ago, Dollar Bill said:

Arte Moreno had that option in Tustin. He passed. That doesn't mean he couldn't do so elsewhere - maybe even next to the current stadium - but that would not appear to be his first choice.

Bill, is there language in the lease regarding stadium maintenance costs and who is responsible absent any other deals or renegotiation? 

[California Cajun]

2 hours ago, CALZONE said:

The stadium needs more than plumbing and paint. It's obsolete compared to the newer stadiums around the league. The stadium has done its job and now needs to be upgraded or demolished. There's really nothing iconic about the stadium except the Big A in the parking lot. 

Can the stadium be upgraded without demolishing it?  Would it take playing at Dodger Stadium two years like the Yankee Stadium renovation in the 70s? I haven't been to the stadium since the Rams configuration and that was in 1992.  I was in town in 2001 but the team was on the road.

[rvt]

I think so, but much is unknown.  How viable is the structure in earthquake and retrofit cost?  Costs/and strategies for plumbing, electrical, electronic, seating, etc. etc.  Cost/benefit ratio of upgrading current stadium vs. a new stadium.  My gut feeling is if they extend current stadium, it will receive light/moderate remodel to extend it a couple decades.   As you know this is an old baseball stadium by current standards and probably most of the life has been wrung out if it already.  I doubt any remodel would be so extensive Angels would need to play at Dodger stadium for two years.  If you're going to go that far and extensive, may as well build new-new facility under construction while existing stadium still in use.

[Dollar Bill]

50 minutes ago, Jobu said:

Bill, is there language in the lease regarding stadium maintenance costs and who is responsible absent any other deals or renegotiation? 

Yes. The Angels and the city don't agree on the interpretation of the language.

[Dollar Bill]

31 minutes ago, California Cajun said:

Can the stadium be upgraded without demolishing it?  Would it take playing at Dodger Stadium two years like the Yankee Stadium renovation in the 70s? I haven't been to the stadium since the Rams configuration and that was in 1992.  I was in town in 2001 but the team was on the road.

The current stadium was downsized to about 30,000 seats in 1996-97 so Disney could do its renovations.

[Jobu]

6 minutes ago, Dollar Bill said:

Yes. The Angels and the city don't agree on the interpretation of the language.

Oh, I'm sure they'll work it out amicably. Just like last time. 

[Dick B Back]

11 hours ago, Lou said:

I agree

I agree

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, Dollar Bill said:

Arte Moreno had that option in Tustin. He passed. That doesn't mean he couldn't do so elsewhere - maybe even next to the current stadium - but that would not appear to be his first choice.

Tustin didn't want him. If Anaheim wasn't going to foot the bill Tustin definitely wasn't going to fit it. 

[Dollar Bill]

5 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Tustin didn't want him. If Anaheim wasn't going to foot the bill Tustin definitely wasn't going to fit it. 

Tustin wasn't going to foot the bill but it would have been delighted if Arte had.

 

[kevinb]

18 minutes ago, Dollar Bill said:

Tustin wasn't going to foot the bill but it would have been delighted if Arte had.

 

Well ya

[ten ocho recon scout]

In reality, anaheim is the best fit, because of commerce and location (freeways). Mayyyybe huntington i guess. Orange? (Same as anaheim). Fullerton maybe. But really, its tough to balance open land and freeways.

[mtangelsfan]

I still think they should build a new stadium and the El Toro base.  

If not that, how about the Seal Beach base?

Now I know neither of those will ever happen but I think they could both be great locations.  (well, thinking about the second option, the (405) north is a nightmare in the evenings.  Probably wouldn't work.

[rvt]

9 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

In reality, anaheim is the best fit, because of commerce and location (freeways). Mayyyybe huntington i guess. Orange? (Same as anaheim). Fullerton maybe. But really, its tough to balance open land and freeways.

Agree.  That 57 is a great corridor from eastern LA county and parts of inland empire.  5, 22, 55  freeways nearby.  Train depot and associated attractions could become relevant.   OC central location-an entertainment core with nearby Disney..Core demographic for team lives in OC. 

When considering costs, put it in perspective of player contracts.  Pujols 10 years, 240 million.  Hamilton 5 years, 125 million.  Total:  10 years   .365 billion.  Vs, projected cost of Ranger's new stadium @ 1 billion.  Which likely can be financed out for three times as long as these player contracts.  I don't see this as pie in the sky at all.  Especially when you have Moreno's ownership since 2003 and a billion or so capital gain.  Any fresh infrastructure will immediately show as equity.

Plus Anaheim would probably give ownership some perks.  Just not at the level Moreno and crew are currently asking for. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

As of the end of March the Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station was considering an upgrade so they could handle bigger ships.  I know there was also talk of possibly closing it and selling the land which most people in the area are opposed to.  There was supposed to be an open forum meeting in early April for citizens to voice their concerns but I can't find any articles that discuss what the conclusion was.  Regardless about the last thing I want to see done to that area which includes a wildlife refuge is the land being sold off and developed.  It's not just the 405 north traffic that's a nightmare the 605 to 405 south interchange is always slow starting at about 4pm during the week even going back to when I made that drive daily over 10 years ago.  

[Amazing Larry]

1 hour ago, mtangelsfan said:

I still think they should build a new stadium and the El Toro base.  

If not that, how about the Seal Beach base?

Now I know neither of those will ever happen but I think they could both be great locations.  (well, thinking about the second option, the (405) north is a nightmare in the evenings.  Probably wouldn't work.

The team is not going anywhere. The window is shut. It would take years of planning, agreements, EIR reports, etc... before a new location could be conceived. Arte's not going to opt out. He'll either upgrade the stadium or sell the team. 

[Dick B Back]

I had always hoped they could build a stadium in Long Beach on the water that home runs could clear either the right or left field stands and folks in kayaks could retrieve the balls that hit the water. 

Sound familiar?

[mtangelsfan]

1 hour ago, Lawrence said:

The team is not going anywhere. The window is shut. It would take years of planning, agreements, EIR reports, etc... before a new location could be conceived. Arte's not going to opt out. He'll either upgrade the stadium or sell the team. 

I know, that's why is said it wasn't going to happen.  Just wanted to throw out two locations that might have been pretty cool.

[mp170.6]

Arturo Moreno = Crony Capitalism

He has a sweetheart deal and is arrogant enough to expect even more, courtesy of Anaheim taxpayers.

 

 

[Ohtaniland]

The city could get about $250M in one transaction for the land and still make Arte fix the stadium.

[Lou]

24 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

Arturo Moreno = Crony Capitalism

He has a sweetheart deal and is arrogant enough to expect even more, courtesy of Anaheim taxpayers.

there's a differen between expecting more and wanting/asking for more. 

also, what was the significance of that chart? 

[Blarg]

That without the Angels the city of Anaheim would have only made about $400k over the last couple decades. 

[kevinb]

12 minutes ago, Lou said:

there's a differen between expecting more and wanting/asking for more. 

also, what was the significance of that chart? 

The Angels provide 81 games a year and money during that time the rest of it nothing happens there. Develop the land.