It's not a figment of your imagination...

[Skankhunt42]

I was watching the Pirates feed today and when Pujols came up with 2 men on, they were talking about how dangerous he is. I couldn't help but think how wrong they were. I hate being so negative about things, but whenever he comes up with men on base, I fear the worse. It sure seems like the Angels hit in to a huge amount of double plays so I decided to look it up......

...53! Which leads the MLB. On top of that, the player with the most GIDP in the MLB is.....

...Albert Pujols! Which doesn't seem all the surprising being how slow he is. Pretty sure he could ground into a double play with no one on base at the snail speed he runs. 

 

 

[zenmaster]

Can we inject some stem cells into his knees or something??

[arch stanton]

Let's see. He's a slow runner and RH hitter who doesn't strike out much and hits in a spot where he's likely to have runners on base. Seems logical that he'd hit into a few DP's. He always has. The year Cabrera won the triple crown he led the league in GIDP. It's just an unfortunate byproduct of hitting with runners on.

[ten ocho recon scout]

^vlad was always a big double play guy too if i remember correctly.

[tomsred]

The Albert Pujols of today is not the Albert Pujols of the first ten years of his career. He is not close to that guy.  There is an excellent chance that when Trout becomes 36 he will not be anywhere close to where he was in the first ten years of his career either.  And Trout at 36 will probably make a lot more money than Albert does at this age.  I really don't think it's fair to continually criticize a 36 year old player because he is not the player he once was.  Pujols is a warrior, and a really tough guy who has left about everything he has had on the table especially considering that bodily injuries have taken a serious toll on him.  The only fair criticism is of the owner and GM who signed him expecting that he would be that younger player in performance.  Until the salary structure in baseball changes to pay for current instead of past performance it will be this way.  It's pretty hard to criticize players for pay vs. performance when this kind of structure exists.

You don't have to dig very deep to find all kind of free agents who aren't performing to past levels or to their rate of pay.  Yet every off season fans clamor for their teams to sign big name free agents, only to meet disappointment in many cases.

Until the Angels bite the bullet, and learn to take advantage of the golden years of a players performance curve, we will have to live with this structure.  Although I could argue that every seriously contending team needs at least a couple of veteran leader types on their roster to help stabilize the clubhouse, and pass on game and season knowledge to the younger guys.  That's a lot of what we are paying for Street and Pujols to do right now.  These guys are not the problem, the problem is the lack of talent available to this team to make a compelling argument for replacing these older players.  

 

 

 

[arch stanton]

I would fear for the spectators if Vlad had to make a throw.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, calscuf said:

If you had a softball team right now, would you rather have Pujols or Vlad?

Vlad. At least hed get beers after the game. 

[Billy_Ball]

I'll never forget the time Vlad hit a pitch that was about to bounce a half an inch in front of the plate.  He golfed it for a lousy single.  Stickball rocks.

[Angel Oracle]

Give Pujols whatever Big Poopie is getting, and da_n the consequences.

[Angelsjunky]

tomsred, what makes Albert especially frustrating and prone to criticism is just how much worse he has been as an Angel than as a Cardinal. Among players who were as great as Albert was through his age 30 season, Albert's decline is historic - there really aren't many formerly inner circle Hall of Famers who become mediocrities in their 30s, or as quickly as Albert did. Actually, his collapse is somewhat similar to Griffey's.

To put it another way, Albert's best season as an Angels was his first, and in that season he was merely good, with a 3.6 WAR. Its the only season that he was actually above 3 in WAR. His overall results have been as an average to above average major leaguer, which is rather disappointing. So yeah, I don't feel too bad for the average ball player making $25 million a year.
 

[yk9001]

7 hours ago, tomsred said:

The Albert Pujols of today is not the Albert Pujols of the first ten years of his career. He is not close to that guy.  There is an excellent chance that when Trout becomes 36 he will not be anywhere close to where he was in the first ten years of his career either.  And Trout at 36 will probably make a lot more money than Albert does at this age.  I really don't think it's fair to continually criticize a 36 year old player because he is not the player he once was.  Pujols is a warrior, and a really tough guy who has left about everything he has had on the table especially considering that bodily injuries have taken a serious toll on him.  The only fair criticism is of the owner and GM who signed him expecting that he would be that younger player in performance.  Until the salary structure in baseball changes to pay for current instead of past performance it will be this way.  It's pretty hard to criticize players for pay vs. performance when this kind of structure exists.

You don't have to dig very deep to find all kind of free agents who aren't performing to past levels or to their rate of pay.  Yet every off season fans clamor for their teams to sign big name free agents, only to meet disappointment in many cases.

Until the Angels bite the bullet, and learn to take advantage of the golden years of a players performance curve, we will have to live with this structure.  Although I could argue that every seriously contending team needs at least a couple of veteran leader types on their roster to help stabilize the clubhouse, and pass on game and season knowledge to the younger guys.  That's a lot of what we are paying for Street and Pujols to do right now.  These guys are not the problem, the problem is the lack of talent available to this team to make a compelling argument for replacing these older players.  

 

 

 

Pujols sucks.

[stormngt]

i really wish they would hit and run more with Pujols batting.  He doesnt strike out much, he hits a lot of pitches sharply to the left side on the infield whete thete us always a shift, and he is so slow they could probably throw the ball around the horn and still have time to get him out at first.

[stormngt]

A couple of facts regarding salaries in professional sports.

an above average player is grossly under paid for his production until he hits free agency.  Once he hits free agency he is grossly over paid for his production.

 

 

[Lhalo]

15 minutes ago, stormngt said:

i really wish they would hit and run more with Pujols batting.  He doesnt strike out much, he hits a lot of pitches sharply to the left side on the infield whete thete us always a shift, and he is so slow they could probably throw the ball around the horn and still have time to get him out at first.

It makes you wonder if Sosh handles Pujols with kid gloves. No hit and runs, no steals from Trout, etc. 

[yk9001]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

A couple of facts regarding salaries in professional sports.

an above average player is grossly under paid for his production until he hits free agency.  Once he hits free agency he is grossly over paid for his production.

 

 

It's almost like there is an inefficiency there that a smart GM could exploit.

[tomsred]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

A couple of facts regarding salaries in professional sports.

an above average player is grossly under paid for his production until he hits free agency.  Once he hits free agency he is grossly over paid for his production.

 

 

So why don't GM's exploit this situation then?  Why do teams keep overpaying veterans?  Is it because they have some value for drawing fans into the ballpark over young unknown players?  Do they stabilize the clubhouse?  Are there not enough good young players with enough talent to fill a roster?  Can teams not win without some number of overpaid veterans?  There has to be compelling reasons.

[tomsred]

2 hours ago, yk9001 said:

Pujols sucks.

If he sucks then Trout sucks too.  In the last 30 days he has hit 5 home runs with 19 RBI as a run producer, while striking out 16 times.  That's exactly the same as Mike Trout's last 30 days, except Trout has struck out 20 times.  Since May 12th Pujols is hitting over .300.  They are paid pretty much the same, but soon Trout will be making more, much more.  The team is in the top 5 offenses in the American League since May 1st.  Pujols and Trout are not the problem, and neither are the position role players supporting them.  Pitching is the problem, and will continue to be for quite some time.  Until that is rectified this team will be handicapped.

 

[Docwaukee]

I think the reason some fans dislike Pujols is perception.   They perceive that he gets special treatment from MS because of his name and salary.  There is the perception that Albert himself seems entitled because of what he's done in the past.  I think there is a bit of each of those going on, but what effect is it really having?   

So MS bats him behind Trout.  Other potential candidates to do so are either already in other spots at the top of the lineup (Escobar and Calhoun) or actually aren't as good as the current version of Albert (Cron).  

Scioscia's job is to put his team in the best position possible to win games.  Would slotting Calhoun in between Trout and Pujols really make that big of a difference?  Would some sort of acknowledgement from MS and Albert that he's not the player he once used to be make everyone feel better?  

To me, Albert is frustrating to watch because I still see ability there and stubbornness is hampering that to some degree.   He has changed his approach and swing mechanics in order to sacrifice pitch recognition for power.    He is off balance on a lot of balls because his new approach doesn't give him as much time to recognize pitches and because he's actually very good at making contact, the result is just a ton of weak contact.  

I have contended that instead of the .240 guy who hits 40hrs, 20 double and has 50 walks, there is a guy who could hit .270 with 50 doubles, 20 hrs, and 80 walks.  

He's actually shown a little more of the latter at times this year than in any of his other seasons as a halo, but there is plenty of times where he's pulling weak grounders to third on balls out of the zone that he used to not swing at or hitting weak popups to the right side on an outside pitch in the zone that he used to hit to the right CF gap for a double.  

His first year with the halos, he was the closest to the latter that we have seen him.  He had 10 of his 50 doubles to the RCF gap.  Do you know how many doubles he's hit to RCF in the 3 1/3 years since then?  Eight.  Do you know how many he's hit since the beginning of the 2015 season?  One.  

All players decline and I accept that.  But to watch him fight tooth and nail against taking what the game is giving him is not just frustrating, but actually sad.  Sad as a baseball fan as much as it is sad as an Angel fan.  

[Blarg]

10 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

^vlad was always a big double play guy too if i remember correctly.

He led the league in doinks if you were to believe RMunkee.

Vlad led the league twice in double plays, once in Montreal and once as an Angel. I would love to see the Angels pick up another Vlad in his prime, doinks and doubles plays non withstanding.

 

[stormngt]

2 hours ago, Lawrence said:

It makes you wonder if Sosh handles Pujols with kid gloves. No hit and runs, no steals from Trout, etc. 

i dont really believe that.  i dont believe Trouts lack of steal attempts is because of Pujols.  i also do notbbelieve Scioscia sacrifices what he believes are the best game decisions in order to pander to Pujols.  And Pujols does not seem to have the personality of a primadonna.

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, tomsred said:

So why don't GM's exploit this situation then?  Why do teams keep overpaying veterans?  Is it because they have some value for drawing fans into the ballpark over young unknown players?  Do they stabilize the clubhouse?  Are there not enough good young players with enough talent to fill a roster?  Can teams not win without some number of overpaid veterans?  There has to be compelling reasons.

supply and demand.  

[Erstad Grit]

I would imagine the NL announcers cannot completely separate Cardinal Pujols with current Pujols. 

[Angelsjunky]

3 hours ago, tomsred said:

If he sucks then Trout sucks too.  In the last 30 days he has hit 5 home runs with 19 RBI as a run producer, while striking out 16 times.  That's exactly the same as Mike Trout's last 30 days, except Trout has struck out 20 times.  Since May 12th Pujols is hitting over .300.  They are paid pretty much the same, but soon Trout will be making more, much more.  The team is in the top 5 offenses in the American League since May 1st.  Pujols and Trout are not the problem, and neither are the position role players supporting them.  Pitching is the problem, and will continue to be for quite some time.  Until that is rectified this team will be handicapped.

 

So you're selecting out a few stats from the last 30 days to make this determination? Um, OK.

But I'll go with it. In those 30 days, both have 5 HR and 19 RBI, but Trout hit .319/.449/.532 with a 173 wRC+ and 1.9 WAR, and Pujols .268/.357/.454 with124 wRC+ and 0.3 WAR. Pujols has been playing better of late, but comparing the two is absurd.

And yes, I think it is a problem that the Angels are playing Albert $25 million to basically be an average player, and that they still owe him $140 million for five more years after this one, and for his age 37-41 seasons.

[Stradling]

4 hours ago, yk9001 said:

It's almost like there is an inefficiency there that a smart GM could exploit.

Yea that smart GM would have to draft perfectly, and then trade the player when he starts to become expensive.  So basically what I'm saying @yk9001 is you should root for the A's.  

[Second Base]

If Pujols is 36, then I'm 25 (actual age, 31).