Can this trend be reversed? SJWs

[Taylor]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

If you could summarize her point what would you say it is ?

There are a couple main themes. One is helping White people listen to the concerns of people of color without getting defensive and then flipping the script to make people of color feel guilty for sharing their struggles. Another main theme is helping White people see that many of the societal norms they take for granted are not neutral but help uphold systems of White superiority.

It's not a perfect book, and I didn't agree with everything she said. But she absolutely does not think that creating more Black CEOs will solve inequality. 

 

[Taylor]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

What were your takeaways from reading that book?  Or, more importantly, what are your action steps now that you have read it?

One practical action step is that when someone tells me I've done or said something that offends them, instead of jumping to, "Oh, that wasn't my intention," I try to have the attitude of, "Thank you so much for sharing that with me. I know it takes courage to give me that kind of feedback. I won't do/say that thing again." It's actually a solid principle for ALL areas of conversation, not just race.

What she's found in her experience is that when people of color open up about their experiences of racism, White people will jump in to defend themselves and effectively minimize the experience of the person who has been wronged, which leads to the person of color apologizing for bringing it up. 

[Taylor]

The main criticism I've seen of DiAngelo's concept of "white fragility" (which, even in its name is a phrase that's going to anger people) is that it suffers from the fallacy of asserting that if you disbelieve in the concept of white fragility, your disbelief is proof of your own white fragility. This is circular logic that I don't necessarily agree with. But her commentary on White/POC interpersonal relationships is generally spot-on.

[UndertheHalo]

13 minutes ago, Taylor said:

There are a couple main themes. One is helping White people listen to the concerns of people of color without getting defensive and then flipping the script to make people of color feel guilty for sharing their struggles. Another main theme is helping White people see that many of the societal norms they take for granted are not neutral but help uphold systems of White superiority.

It's not a perfect book, and I didn't agree with everything she said. But she absolutely does not think that creating more Black CEOs will solve inequality. 

 

I mean that right there is sort of my point.  I say the black CEO’s thing sort of facetiously but also I believe it stems from the same idea.  Specifically, that American concepts around like individualism are features of white supremacy.  And I say that’s wrong.  It’s a feature of a hyper capitalistic society.  The whole book appears that way.  So far as I can tell.  She assigns everything to white supremacy.  Which is imo not a correct read of our problems.  

[UndertheHalo]

It characterizes every interaction between  white people and POC as a power struggle.  Very weird.  An evil idea imo.  

[Taylor]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I mean that right there is sort of my point.  I say the black CEO’s thing sort of facetiously but also I believe it stems from the same idea.  Specifically, that American concepts around like individualism are features of white supremacy.  And I say that’s wrong.  It’s a feature of a hyper capitalistic society.  The whole book appears that way.  So far as I can tell.  She assigns everything to white supremacy.  Which is imo not a correct read of our problems.  

But she doesn't seem to be the uber capitalist you're making her out to be. That's just from my read of the book.

[Taylor]

Just now, UndertheHalo said:

It characterizes every interaction between  white people and POC as a power struggle.  Very weird.  An evil idea imo.  

I don't remember it being that overstated (I read the book last summer). 

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, Taylor said:

But she doesn't seem to be the uber capitalist you're making her out to be. That's just from my read of the book.

I think her silence on the topic is a huge problem.  This is what lots of liberals do.  They completely ignore that component.  Which imo is the primary thing to look at.  

[UndertheHalo]

People like to believe they aren’t at the bottom of the pile.  I think that’s where white supremacy comes into play.  It lets people believe they’re above someone.  People are loathe to believe they’re getting fucked.  But I’ve got news for the white supremacist folks.  Your boss is raping you the same as the blacks and Mexicans.  They don’t value you more.  Your idea that they do is convenient for them. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by UndertheHalo

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, Taylor said:

One practical action step is that when someone tells me I've done or said something that offends them, instead of jumping to, "Oh, that wasn't my intention," I try to have the attitude of, "Thank you so much for sharing that with me. I know it takes courage to give me that kind of feedback. I won't do/say that thing again." It's actually a solid principle for ALL areas of conversation, not just race.

I just cut these people out of my life entirely.

[Jason]

4 minutes ago, cals said:

If Taylor capitalizes white people one more time I’m gonna lose my shit. 

I can’t wait until you suffer from white guilt 

[UndertheHalo]

The correct way to reference white people is huhwyyyyyhte

[mtangelsfan]

3 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

People like to believe they aren’t at the bottom of the pile.  I think that’s where white supremacy comes into play.  It lets people believe they’re above someone.  People are loathe to believe they’re getting fucked.  But I’ve got news for the white supremacist folks.  Your boss is raping you the same as the blacks and Mexicans.  They don’t value you more.  Your idea that they do is convenient for them. 

I don’t agree with your theory that boss/employee is a naturally adversarial relationship 

[Jason]

15 minutes ago, cals said:

Well you better get used to waiting.

Maybe you should that book that Taylor recommends 

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, mtangelsfan said:

I don’t agree with your theory that boss/employee is a naturally adversarial relationship 

That’s fine.  

[mtangelsfan]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

That’s fine.  

Especially since most bosses are employees 

[UndertheHalo]

Btw, when I say your boss.  I don’t literally mean your direct supervisor.  

[UndertheHalo]

Yes.  Absolutely.  Your supervisor probably 98% of the time is also a worker. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by UndertheHalo

[Redondo]

18 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

The correct way to reference white people is huhwyyyyyhte

That sounds like Stewie Griffin when he was saying Wheat Thins 

[UndertheHalo]

29 minutes ago, Redondo said:

That sounds like Stewie Griffin when he was saying Wheat Thins 

Admittedly I struggled to get the sound I’m trying to emphasize into spelling.   Thank you for trying tho. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by UndertheHalo

[AngelsLongBall]

14 minutes ago, Redondo said:

That sounds like Stewie Griffin when he was saying Wheat Thins 

Cool Whip

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, cals said:

If Taylor capitalizes white people one more time I’m gonna lose my shit. 

AP Style now captalizes Black and White. Blame the media.

[Crampknees]

39 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

I don’t agree with your theory that boss/employee is a naturally adversarial relationship 

I agree, I have a habit of telling my bosses what they should do. 

[Taylor]

26 minutes ago, cals said:

I don’t give a fuck what AP does.  You going to start saying “mang” instead of “man” now because he does too?

Yeah mang.

[Taylor]

2 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I just cut these people out of my life entirely.

What people?